Should We Leave the EU?

[ComUtoR]

...but surely that wouldn't happen. If the UK votes Brexit then that's it!

If the country voted to exit the EU then will we actually exit ? Can David Cameron simply refuse to leave ?

 

[Tetchytyke]

If the UK votes Brexit then that's it!

There's nothing preventing anyone calling another referendum until they get the response they want. The Irish did that when the Irish people rejected the Lisbon Treaty first time around.

It would be an interesting political decision to call a second referendum though.

 

[radamfi]

On an even more serious note, about 30% of the people in the office where my girlfriend works are EU nationals. Would such a company be inclined to stay if they thought they might have to get work permits for them - or will they up sticks and go to Rotterdam or Paris or somewhere? The problem is that the uncertainty engendered by this referendum is making them have these thoughts now, irrespective of the actual outcome of the referendum. It might trigger the closure of the office and the end of her job.

I think EU citizens should up sticks and go to one of the other EU countries. Britain is generally a worse country compared to most western/northern European countries (just compare the local public transport, cycling, public services etc.). Britain doesn't deserve these good people.

 

[Senex]

I think EU citizens should up sticks and go to one of the other EU countries. Britain is generally a worse country compared to most western/northern European countries (just compare the local public transport, cycling, public services etc.). Britain doesn't deserve these good people.

Isn't that where part of the huge gap between the INs and the OUTs lies? Many of us might share your view that Britain is now generally a worse place than most western/northern European countries, whatever we think of the way the institutions of the EU work/have worked. But there's a strong contingent on the out side who still see Britain as nigh-perfect in all its institutions and far superior to the mainland countries that we had to rescue for the second time in a century in a war that ended seventy years ago.

Is there a case for restricting the referendum to the under-55s, whose future is at stake (even though that would disenfranchise people like me)?

 

[Dave1987]

I think EU citizens should up sticks and go to one of the other EU countries. Britain is generally a worse country compared to most western/northern European countries (just compare the local public transport, cycling, public services etc.). Britain doesn't deserve these good people.

I assume you have seen the images of the train that was used to transport some migrants across Europe? In a three hour journey it was trashed, windows smashed, rubbish dumped everywhere. And of the number of Eastern Europeans we have working at our depot lots of them have been sacked for sleeping on the job etc etc. Yes there are some hard working people who come into this country but I would not say cante blanche they are all 'good people'. How many of the metal thefts that happened were carried out by Eastern Europeans?

I am seriously torn on which way to vote. But I remember when the Scottish referendum happened and Sturgeon was betting the entire Scottish economy on North Sea oil revenues and look at the oil price now, they would be bankrupt. But if Sturgeon is adamant to stay in then there must be some good reasons to leave

The leave campaign has yet to convince me but then again neither has the stay campaign.

Hey at least we have a vote! Labour would never have given us the choice.

 

[ExRes]

I think EU citizens should up sticks and go to one of the other EU countries. Britain is generally a worse country compared to most western/northern European countries (just compare the local public transport, cycling, public services etc.). Britain doesn't deserve these good people.

If this is such an awful country to live in then why are all these wonderfully good people here?

 

[radamfi]

If this is such an awful country to live in then why are all these wonderfully good people here?

The English language is probably the principal draw.

 

[ExRes]

Is there a case for restricting the referendum to the under-55s, whose future is at stake (even though that would disenfranchise people like me)?

Absolutely not, a 55 year old could still have 30+ years ahead of them, why should they be restricted from taking part?

If they stopped me from taking part are they going to stop taking tax from my private pension? cancel my council tax payments?, I've paid and I pay my required share so I have an equal right to state my preference
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The English language is probably the principal draw.

As people seem to think that the British are the only people incapable of learning another language, then these 'EU citizens' should be more than capable of learning any other language they set their minds to, yes?

 

[radamfi]

As people seem to think that the British are the only people incapable of learning another language, then these 'EU citizens' should be more than capable of learning any other language they set their minds to, yes?

Obviously the most popular second language that Europeans learn is English, so the UK and Ireland are the obvious choices of going somewhere without learning another language. But, yes of course, they could learn another language if they want to. British people can also learn a second language if they want to. I'm learning Dutch, I'm middle aged and I'm not particularly gifted at languages. Some British people think that only young people can learn a new language.

 

[Dave1987]

If this is such an awful country to live in then why are all these wonderfully good people here?

And why do hundreds of thousands of people want to come here? Why are there a couple of thousand people currently camped out at Calais trying to cross the channel to the UK even though they are already in a civilised country i.e France, where they could claim asylum etc unless they are trying to get here because of how good our country is and how well we treat people.

 

[EM2]

...unless they are trying to get here because of how good our country is and how well we treat people.

Or because they can speak English and not French? Or they already have family living here?

 

[radamfi]

And why do hundreds of thousands of people want to come here? Why are there a couple of thousand people currently camped out at Calais trying to cross the channel to the UK even though they are already in a civilised country i.e France, where they could claim asylum etc unless they are trying to get here because of how good our country is and how well we treat people.

Also because there are established expat communities in the UK.

 

[johnmoly]

...but surely that wouldn't happen. If the UK votes Brexit then that's it!

As others have quoted, if there is a Brexit vote then the EU will insist that we keep having referendums until they get the right answer, just like Ireland and other countries which have not been mentioned in the British media. Don't forget we won't leave the EU overnight, probably take years to organise, by then we would have got a fairer deal. My ex colleague said that the French people are also considering leaving, even though some of their politicians are ignoring the call.

 

[radamfi]

The liar from UKIP on the Daily Politics just said that Eurostar has the Lille Loophole, whereas the truth is that it has been closed by having Brussels to Lille as a separate coach.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Personally, I think it will be a close run thing. Whichever way it goes, we've got most of our demands on the Special Status, so we can sit outside the union and watch them all fail... And, best of all, if we leave the EU - WE GET TO KEEP THE PACERS!!!

I shall be voting for an exit

I am not sure if that was a serious comment but in what way is the EU responsible for withdrawal of the Pacers? Or is it that our economy will be so screwed that we won't be able to afford to replace them?

I was being serious. It was EU law that forced the government to implement DDA, so, in theory, leaving the EU could enable DDA to be stricken or to be reworked so we could keep the pacers
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The liar from UKIP on the Daily Politics just said that Eurostar has the Lille Loophole, whereas the truth is that it has been closed by having Brussels to Lille as a separate coach.

What is the Lille Loophole? Can you describe it to me?

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I think EU citizens should up sticks and go to one of the other EU countries. Britain is generally a worse country compared to most western/northern European countries (just compare the local public transport, cycling, public services etc.). Britain doesn't deserve these good people.

But this country is where our life is; we don't want to up sticks and live somewhere else. And the beer is better.

 

[Dave1987]

Or because they can speak English and not French? Or they already have family living here?

If they are fleeing conflict and persecution then language should not matter. Haven't all the refugees in Germany said they are willing to learn German? If they have family here then they should be granted a visa or citizenship so should go to the British Embassy in Paris to get a legal way across the channel.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

But this country is where our life is; we don't want to up sticks and live somewhere else. And the beer is better.

I'll agree to that!

 

[radamfi]

What is the Lille Loophole? Can you describe it to me?

On Eurostar, passports are checked on departure from Brussels, Lille, Calais and Paris. In the case of trains from Paris and Calais, the next stop is in the UK. However trains from Brussels stop at Lille to allow people to get off, and a trip from Brussels to Lille is completely within the Schengen area, so does not require a passport or identity card. Some people were entering the UK by pretending to get off at Lille but staying on the train to the UK. This has been solved by passengers going to Lille having to use a particular coach on the train with security between that coach and the remainder of the train.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

On Eurostar, passports are checked on departure from Brussels, Lille, Calais and Paris. In the case of trains from Paris and Calais, the next stop is in the UK. However trains from Brussels stop at Lille to allow people to get off, and a trip from Brussels to Lille is completely within the Schengen area, so does not require a passport or identity card. Some people were entering the UK by pretending to get off at Lille but staying on the train to the UK. This has been solved by passengers going to Lille having to use a particular coach on the train with security between that coach and the remainder of the train.

Ah - never heard of that before. Thank you for explaining it

 

[47802]

Well whatever people decide I do hope that everyone gives it proper and serious thought and doesn't just go with gut reactions on things like migration, unfortunately I'm not sure it will be the case for many people.

One final point and I will make clear from the start that I am no fan of Jeremy Corbyn, his comments so far have been very poor I'm my view, all he keeps saying that its an internal dispute of the Tory party, well yes it may have been bourne out of that and Tory attempts to fight off UKIP, but the vote is now here so stop going on about it and give the Labour party position.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Well whatever people decide I do hope that everyone gives it proper and serious thought and doesn't just go with gut reactions on things like migration, unfortunately I'm not sure it will be the case for many people.

One final point and I will make clear from the start that I am no fan of Jeremy Corbyn, his comments so far have been very poor I'm my view, all he keeps saying that its an internal dispute of the Tory party, well yes it may have been bourne out of that and Tory attempts to fight off UKIP, but the vote is now here so stop going on about it and give the Labour party position.

I've given it serious thought already...

I'm voting out because it means I could keep my beloved pacers - plus we'd stay out of an EU super state

 

[DarloRich]

plus we'd stay out of an EU super state

Even though Dave's deal expressly changes the wording of EU treaties to exclude Britain from ever closer and deeper integration?

 

[All Line Rover]

Another weak argument being spouted by the 'no' camp is the idea that the UK would be freed from all of that 'burdensome' EU red tape. I suspect the UK would want to continue to trade with the EU in the event of an exit. How is being left with two regulatory schemes (one for domestic sales, one for EU exports) a positive? There would be more red tape, not less.

 

[47802]

I've given it serious thought already...

I'm voting out because it means I could keep my beloved pacers - plus we'd stay out of an EU super state

Yeh I can see that, that's got to be the most ridiculous thing I have heard so far:cry:
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Another weak argument being spouted by the 'no' camp is the idea that the UK would be freed from all of that 'burdensome' EU red tape. I suspect the UK would want to continue to trade with the EU in the event of an exit. How is being left with two regulatory schemes (one for domestic sales, one for EU exports) a positive? There would be more red tape, not less.

Indeed we would still have to meet EU standards in order to trade with them, which probably would also become UK standards in many cases for simplicity.

I heard a comment from a Tory out MP yesterday about not liking EU health and safety reg's, which just fuels my suspicion about the Tory out brigade who want to turn the UK into sweat shop Britain with poor H&S and long hours, and find some unions EU out stance a little perplexing.

 

[All Line Rover]

I [heard] a comment from a Tory out MP yesterday about not liking EU health and safety reg's, which just fuels my suspicion about the Tory out brigade who want to turn the UK into sweat shop [Britain] with poor H&S and long hours.

We need more comments like that from Tory MPs as they are very revealing of their true motives.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Lets reverse it here - make the EU adopt the pound!

 

[St Rollox]

Lets reverse it here - make the EU adopt the pound!

Better ask Alistair Darling first.

 

[Dave1987]

Well whatever people decide I do hope that everyone gives it proper and serious thought and doesn't just go with gut reactions on things like migration, unfortunately I'm not sure it will be the case for many people.

One final point and I will make clear from the start that I am no fan of Jeremy Corbyn, his comments so far have been very poor I'm my view, all he keeps saying that its an internal dispute of the Tory party, well yes it may have been bourne out of that and Tory attempts to fight off UKIP, but the vote is now here so stop going on about it and give the Labour party position.

I totally agree with you. The problem I have found is there is a huge amount of mud slinging going on on both sides of the argument so for those of us who are trying to make an informed choice its hard to deceiver the good and bad points or staying or leaving.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Better ask Alistair Darling first.

Why? He's labour