Suburban stock on long runs

[northwichcat]

Just remembered the 322s were used on FNW Open Access services between Manchester Airport and London Euston (similar to the current LM Crewe to Euston services.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just remembered the 322s were used on FNW Open Access services between Manchester Airport and London Euston (similar to the current LM Crewe to Euston services.)

That they were, but with one passenger and their dog (passenger and dog optional) nobody really had to worry about 3 people sitting on the 3 side.

 

[northwichcat]

That they were, but with one passenger and their dog (passenger and dog optional) nobody really had to worry about 3 people sitting on the 3 side.

They still had the Stansted Express interior at the time which had 2+2 seating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_322#/media/File:322485_Standard_Class_Interior.JPG It was Scotrail who changed the interiors to be 3+2 (after probably deciding passengers sat in window seats don't have arms.) However, it was less well suited for long distance travel than the 350/1s in their current state.

 

[Mojo]

Liverpool to Birmingham is worse (where there are some /2s as well) as LM provide the only direct services between Liverpool and Birmingham. Virgin provide 4tph between London and Birmingham so the only end to end travellers on the LM London to Birmingham are the people who want to travel for less than the Virgin fare. It's a reasonable expectation that if you travel on the budget service you get a lower standard of train.

I don't know; if travelling from Birmingham to either Liverpool or Manchester I much prefer the journey experience offered by London Midland compared to CrossCountry. The distance and journey times are not at all that different, and the ambience on board London Midland is far superior. Not bad given one is supposedly a "Regional" operator...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Don't know if SWT ever use their 450s all the way down to Weymouth on stoppers, but that can't be a nice journey on 3+2 seating

 

[Islineclear3_1]

A 313 on a Brighton - Portsmouth stopper ....

A 375 on a Victoria - Medway - Ramsgate or Dover Priory stopping (nearly all stations) east of Bromley South (yawn.....)

 

[dgl]

​

Don't know if SWT ever use their 450s all the way down to Weymouth on stoppers, but that can't be a nice journey on 3+2 seating

yep, believe a service each way is a 450x2. and it's not great. esp. when it's a 444+450 with the 444 London end and the 450 all the way to Weymouth.

 

[fowler9]

I don't know; if travelling from Birmingham to either Liverpool or Manchester I much prefer the journey experience offered by London Midland compared to CrossCountry. The distance and journey times are not at all that different, and the ambience on board London Midland is far superior. Not bad given one is supposedly a "Regional" operator...

You can't really compare the services of London Midland and Cross Country between Liverpool and Birmingham.

 

[SWT444PORTS]

Done Middlesbrough to Carlisle on a 142...... was pretty shaken on arrival at Carlisle!

Saw recently as well a Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central formed of 3 car 150.... cant be the most comfortable journey - not sure the exact time it takes and whether many people do travel between the two stations!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Occasionally we do use a 455 to Haslemere when the main service is really screwed up, they don't half fly down there.

 

[PHILIPE]

Done Middlesbrough to Carlisle on a 142...... was pretty shaken on arrival at Carlisle!

Saw recently as well a Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central formed of 3 car 150.... cant be the most comfortable journey - not sure the exact time it takes and whether many people do travel between the two stations!

Journey approx 3 and a quarter hours. Not booked, though.

 

[MrB]

Several southeastern services to Tunbridge Wells, Folkestone, Dover Priory & Ashford Intl are formed of Class 465 networkers.

 

[Mojo]

You can't really compare the services of London Midland and Cross Country between Liverpool and Birmingham.

I said "to either Liverpool or Manchester." I don't see why you can't compare the two; they are both very similar distances offering a similar frequency of trains (2tph for much of the day).

 

[fowler9]

I said "to either Liverpool or Manchester." I don't see why you can't compare the two; they are both very similar distances offering a similar frequency of trains (2tph for much of the day).

Apologies mate, I was just being daft. For what it is worth I would rather have a 350/2 than a Voyager.

 

[TEW]

Don't know if SWT ever use their 450s all the way down to Weymouth on stoppers, but that can't be a nice journey on 3+2 seating

None booked to work London Waterloo-Weymouth services or vice versa at the moment. They have been in the past though, and still turn up vice a Class 444 pretty frequently.

 

[bb21]

Lincoln-Hull clocks up the longest pacer run at just three minutes longer then Middlesbrough-Carlisle...

In theory 2N45 1616 Nunthorpe to Carlisle is the longest pacer run by milage. I talked to Northern's twitter people about it and they confirmed this to be the case when asked.

By journey time that honour would go to 2C76 1625 Lincoln Central to Hull - a total journey time of 3 hours, 24 minutes

Can somebody tell me more about this 6 hour 150 ride?

Surely the 1252 Carlisle - Lancaster via the Cumbrian Coast is both longer in time and distance - 3 hour 36 minutes and about 120 miles.

 

[455driver]

Looks like this is the working...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C53428/2016/01/21/advanced

Which was 150239 today.
As stated it is booked a 150/1 though.

 

[fowler9]

Which was 150239 today.
As stated it is booked a 150/1 though.

Are the two not interchangable?

 

[PHILIPE]

Are the two not interchangable?

They have separate diagrams but you could hardly tell the difference in practice.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Surely the 1252 Carlisle - Lancaster via the Cumbrian Coast is both longer in time and distance - 3 hour 36 minutes and about 120 miles.

I'm talking about booked pacer runs

 

[bb21]

I'm talking about booked pacer runs

I was also talking about booked pacer runs.

 

[Mag_seven]

You've obviously never been in Northern land with some of the ridiculously long runs they put 142s on- more than three hours! (Can anyone help me with specific routes?)

Exactly - it would certainly give southerners something to moan about if they put a 142 on a Padd to Hereford service instead of a CL 166.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I was also talking about booked pacer runs.

Interesting, I did not know that... I shall consult the Northern twitter elves for advice on this...

I know it is pathed for a 150/153/156

 

[bb21]

Interesting, I did not know that... I shall consult the Northern twitter elves for advice on this...

I know it is pathed for a 150/153/156

All timed for 75 max.

 

[sprinterguy]

Taking the 0821 Paddington to Hereford yesterday, I was most surprised (not to mention squashed) to find it consisted of (and is apparently diagrammed for) a suburban dmu with 3+2 seating. Given that the journey time is 3 hours 20 minutes for the trip, is this something of a record for the use of inappropriate local service stock with such tight seating? Especially galling was to depart Paddington parallel to an IC125 which was heading empty for the sidings at Old Oak Common, and furthermore that only the highest-priced "anytime" tickets were available on it - quite apart from wasting line capacity on the supposedly-full fast lines as far as Didcot with a 90mph train mixed in with mostly 125mph services.

Class 166s have been staple traction on the Cotswold route as far as Worcester since they were introduced over twenty years ago: The stopping services were transferred from Regional Railways to Network Southeast (and a small number of additional 166s ordered) around this time, in a deal that allowed Regional Railways to free up sufficient 158s to be converted into twenty two 159s for NSE. The services had previously been worked by class 155 "Super Sprinter" units. It might, however, only be since privatisation that 166s have regularly worked as far as Hereford.

For a couple of years' upon the introduction of British Rails' Sprinter programme in the mid eighties, class 150s were used on long distance North Transpennine services from the likes of Hull, as well as other provincial cross-country services, prior to being replaced by class 156 "Super Sprinter" units and subsequently air-conditioned class 158s. With the 150s' low down, low backed 3+2 seating, that cannot have made for a pleasant travelling experience!
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Whilst there are a few services a day from Lancaster to Carlisle up the coast, you'd be pretty desperate to use one all the way (rather than the relatively frequent 125mph service up the WCML).

Very true. I think realistically the longest direct journey that most people would be willing to undertake via the Cumbrian Coast would be Barrow to Carlisle: You might get a few passengers from stations east of there preferring to take the direct train, but even from Barrow-in-Furness itself it is just as quick to travel via a change at Lancaster, and you'll likely get a better sort of train to boot.

The same goes for direct trains between the likes of Middlesbrough and Carlisle. There's not a lot of through traffic past Newcastle in either direction, excepting those going the short distance further to the Metrocentre from the south.
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Interesting, I did not know that... I shall consult the Northern twitter elves for advice on this...

Fairly confident that, as bb21 says, this is one half of the one booked out and back 142 run on the Cumbrian Coast.

 

[jimm]

Class 166s have been staple traction on the Cotswold route as far as Worcester since they were introduced over twenty years ago: The stopping services were transferred from Regional Railways to Network Southeast (and a small number of additional 166s ordered) around this time, in a deal that allowed Regional Railways to free up sufficient 158s to be converted into twenty two 159s for NSE. The services had previously been worked by class 155 "Super Sprinter" units. It might, however, only be since privatisation that 166s have regularly worked as far as Hereford.

To be pedantic, they have been staple traction as far as Great Malvern (NSE/Thames Trains' operational boundary) since introduction.

FGW hired in a 166 from Thames Trains to work a weekday off-peak Paddington-Hereford and return service for several years. I think this was after the Ladbroke Grove crash in 2001 left it short of HSTs. The arrangement lasted until FGW took over from Thames and 180s moved to Oxford and Cotswold services.

At the moment, in addition to the 08.21, the last London-Hereford (departs 18.30)-London round trip on Sundays is a Turbo.

Turbos have also got to Hereford after 180s or HSTs failed, even two-car 165s on occasion - though these would certainly merit the description of squashed, as I can testify when heading west from Oxford one Saturday morning after a booked HST had failed at Paddington.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I caught the 08.21 back from London today. It's lightly loaded, certainly as far as Charlbury (and I can't imagine it's any busier afterwards!). I don't really like Turbos at all but can't really object in this case, given that it has enabled an extra service from Worcester. The Sunday Hereford run can get pretty unpleasant, though.

FGW hired in a 166 from Thames Trains to work a weekday off-peak Paddington-Hereford and return service for several years. I think this was after the Ladbroke Grove crash in 2001 left it short of HSTs.

I'm pretty sure (and uk.railway archives corroborate) that this off-peak GWT service was Turbotised as early as 1998 - a sad end to what was once the "Cotswolds & Malverns Express", but again, not too surprising given the low loadings.

Edit: and back in 1993 they ran to Birmingham via the Cotswold Line! https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.railway/ROp7h6rLBc4 Some great direct services in that thread... I quite fancy being able to catch a direct XC from Poole to Charlbury.

 

[jimm]

I caught the 08.21 back from London today. It's lightly loaded, certainly as far as Charlbury (and I can't imagine it's any busier afterwards!). I don't really like Turbos at all but can't really object in this case, given that it has enabled an extra service from Worcester. The Sunday Hereford run can get pretty unpleasant, though.

I'm pretty sure (and uk.railway archives corroborate) that this off-peak GWT service was Turbotised as early as 1998 - a sad end to what was once the "Cotswolds & Malverns Express", but again, not too surprising given the low loadings.

Edit: and back in 1993 they ran to Birmingham via the Cotswold Line! https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.railway/ROp7h6rLBc4 Some great direct services in that thread... I quite fancy being able to catch a direct XC from Poole to Charlbury.

Perhaps post-Southall crash in September 1997 then? Certainly would fit with the initial impetus for the hire-in being a shortage of HSTs after a major incident but given that a Turbo was more than adequate for the loadings, they continued the arrangement long term.

I did once do Stourbridge Junction-Paddington via the Cotswold Line on that through 0901 Birmingham-Paddington train mentioned in the Google group thread in the early days of the Turbos but I was rather lonely as far as Worcester. Even Droitwich passengers didn't seem to appreciate the provision of a through train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly - it would certainly give southerners something to moan about if they put a 142 on a Padd to Hereford service instead of a CL 166.

I believe something like that did once happen, but it only got as far as Reading as they are banned east of there.

 

[PHILIPE]

I believe something like that did once happen, but it only got as far as Reading as they are banned east of there.

I should imagine route availability for 142s and 143s would be the same. A 143 worked from Cardiff to Paddington and return in Wales and West days.