Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[jon0844]

Happily, the new 700s and the new Moorgate line trains all have onboard cameras so can stop where they like in the platforms. Albeit the 700s will fill the platform!

Will 377s stop there and stop shorter as they have door cameras? Likewise when the 6 car 700s come, will they all stop further back towards the stairs?

I still think NR should have put up cameras and screens, like the other two platforms. But I think most people are used to it and drivers will often wait a bit (at least on trains due to terminate at WGC) even if it means departing a bit late.

 

[bramling]

Will 377s stop there and stop shorter as they have door cameras? Likewise when the 6 car 700s come, will they all stop further back towards the stairs?

I still think NR should have put up cameras and screens, like the other two platforms. But I think most people are used to it and drivers will often wait a bit (at least on trains due to terminate at WGC) even if it means departing a bit late.

I believe the issue is more to do with the risk of a train stopping at the wrong mark. If an 8-car train was to stop at the 4-car mark then cars would be left hanging off the back of the platform, with the risk of passengers falling out in proximity to the fast line.

Will the 700s have any protection against this risk? Possibly a 12-car wrongly stopping at the 8-car mark could have cars off the back of the platform.

 

[A-driver]

Strictly speaking, from 2018 London Bridge is restored as the main line, and Victoria becomes the branch. And there are plenty of places to lose a 12 car 700 at Brighton.
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Happily, the new 700s and the new Moorgate line trains all have onboard cameras so can stop where they like in the platforms. Albeit the 700s will fill the platform!

Will 377s stop there and stop shorter as they have door cameras? Likewise when the 6 car 700s come, will they all stop further back towards the stairs?

I still think NR should have put up cameras and screens, like the other two platforms. But I think most people are used to it and drivers will often wait a bit (at least on trains due to terminate at WGC) even if it means departing a bit late.

The Hatfield situation is nothing to do with dispatch equipment. The 4 car mirror was removed many years ago to force all trains to carry on to the far end. Hatfield was plagued by a high number of stop short incidents and no one could explain why that location was so bad. The up platform now only has 2 stop points as the 6 car monitors have been taken out of use for the exact same reason.

Try won't be re introduced regardless of new train tech. But most trains will be fixed 6/8 car anyway.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Happily, the new 700s and the new Moorgate line trains all have onboard cameras so can stop where they like in the platforms. Albeit the 700s will fill the platform!

Any news on whether they'll be putting the disabled section in the middle 2 cars of the 6 car Class 700s, as per the 8 and 12 car units ?

I think it's a cracking idea, keeping everything (wheelchair space, accessible toilet, bike space and first class) in the same place on each train, and it would be a bit of a shame for the 6 car units not to at least follow with the wheelchair spaces.

 

[Class377/5]

Any news on whether they'll be putting the disabled section in the middle 2 cars of the 6 car Class 700s, as per the 8 and 12 car units ?

I think it's a cracking idea, keeping everything (wheelchair space, accessible toilet, bike space and first class) in the same place on each train, and it would be a bit of a shame for the 6 car units not to at least follow with the wheelchair spaces.

The reason behind it on the 700s will because the Core stations are getting ramps like the Tube does so you don't need staff to assist people off, you can just yourself off reducing dwell times while still allowing those with mobility problems full access to the train.

The Moorgate stock (which is a class variant just like the 707s are, so no guarantee that they will be 700s at all) will not have this feature. However it down present logic and the way Siemens have designed the numbering system on the Desiro Cities will likely mean it's kept that way unless GTR decide otherwise.

 

[AM9]

In times of real problems, sending the 700s up/down the BML will be the quickest way to move large numbers of delayed/stranded passengers. Moving 1700+ people per train is preferable to about 1000 especially as the 700s can load and unload far quicker than a crush-loaded Electrostar. I'm sure those complaining that there aren't enough seats/tables will be a drop in the ocean of those who just want to get safely to their destination as soon as possible.
If there aren't paths available for any trains, the length/type of train is irrelevant, nobody will be going anywhere!
If a platform is 12 car length, it can accommodate up to twelve cars, (nominally 12x20m). In terms of passenger capacity, the room on one 12-car train is not going to be less than 3x4-car, 4x3-car or even 6x2-car.

 

[The Box Photter]

I suppose going north through the Core a wounded Class 700 can be put into the sidings at Cricklewood, but is it also possible to stable a 12-car 700 in the middle platform at Kentish Town?

 

[petersi]

I suppose going north through the Core a wounded Class 700 can be put into the sidings at Cricklewood, but is it also possible to stable a 12-car 700 in the middle platform at Kentish Town?

More likely be sent to Hornsey

 

[The Box Photter]

More likely be sent to Hornsey

Only after the Canal Tunnels are commissioned, surely. Until then, I'd have thought Cricklewood was a reasonable place to dump a poorly 700.

 

[A-driver]

Only after the Canal Tunnels are commissioned, surely. Until then, I'd have thought Cricklewood was a reasonable place to dump a poorly 700.

As far as I'm aware they are commissioned. If they arnt they will be before any 700s enter service on the TL.

 

[Class377/5]

Canal Tunnels should be commissioned after the first 700 runs in service.

Cricklewood will be the place to put a failed 700 on the MML. Limping back to depot would be an overnight thing and depending on the fault either depot could take it.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Until then, I'd have thought Cricklewood was a reasonable place to dump a poorly 700.

It's the only realistic place to dump a poorly 700 north of the river, other than in the platform at Luton and Bedford....
Bedford Jowett Siding is not really a suitable location, depending on the nature of the failure.

 

[Bald Rick]

As far as I'm aware they are commissioned. If they arnt they will be before any 700s enter service on the TL.

The canal tunnels are commissioned. Just not yet brought into use (paperwork)

 

[westcoaster]

The canal tunnels are commissioned. Just not yet brought into use (paperwork)

Still some OHLE to be installed between canal tunnel and SPILL.

 

[A-driver]

The canal tunnels are commissioned. Just not yet brought into use (paperwork)

Fair enough. I know a couple of kings X drivers went down there a while back for commissioning purposes with a 313.

 

[The Box Photter]

O/T I know, but would it be possible to use the Canal Tunnels for railtour purposes, such as ECML to somewhere in 3rd rail land? If so, what traction would be passed for the tunnels, the Core and the banks up to Farringdon & Blackfriars?

 

[urpert]

O/T I know, but would it be possible to use the Canal Tunnels for railtour purposes, such as ECML to somewhere in 3rd rail land? If so, what traction would be passed for the tunnels, the Core and the banks up to Farringdon & Blackfriars?

700 and that's it, I believe.

 

[Domh245]

O/T I know, but would it be possible to use the Canal Tunnels for railtour purposes, such as ECML to somewhere in 3rd rail land? If so, what traction would be passed for the tunnels, the Core and the banks up to Farringdon & Blackfriars?

I don't think any diesels would be OK'd to go through, so it would have to be a dual voltage unit (hooray?) or a 92. All hypothetical of course because the core will be so busy you wouldn't even be able to fit anything through it other than the service trains.

 

[tsr]

All hypothetical of course because the core will be so busy you wouldn't even be able to fit anything through it other than the service trains.

*Points to Steam on the Met*

*Wonders at potential to up-size to rail tours through the TL Core on Sunday evenings*

 

[D365]

I assume there'd be some sort of 'traditional' signalling overlay for test trains, if there is a requirement to do so?

 

[Bald Rick]

O/T I know, but would it be possible to use the Canal Tunnels for railtour purposes, such as ECML to somewhere in 3rd rail land? If so, what traction would be passed for the tunnels, the Core and the banks up to Farringdon & Blackfriars?

700s, 365s, 319s are all that were planned to be cleared. I suspect 377s, 313s and the new Moorgate line stock will be clear. Anything else will need a gauging exercise. Having walked through the tunnels myself, I suspect the issue is more likely to be the existing line south of St Pancras station than the new tunnels.
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I assume there'd be some sort of 'traditional' signalling overlay for test trains, if there is a requirement to do so?

Lights on sticks remain. You can see the signals on the TL core map of open train times.

 

[jon0844]

Changing subject a bit, but how noisy are the 700s when entering St Pancras from the south? It's ear piercing now and quite horrid waiting at that end for a southbound service, so I'd hope the 700s might be a bit kinder on the ears?

 

[southern442]

Changing subject a bit, but how noisy are the 700s when entering St Pancras from the south? It's ear piercing now and quite horrid waiting at that end for a southbound service, so I'd hope the 700s might be a bit kinder on the ears?

Considering it's a pretty tight curve I'm doubting there will be much reduction in noise levels, maybe a bit quieter at the most.

 

[AM9]

Considering it's a pretty tight curve I'm doubting there will be much reduction in noise levels, maybe a bit quieter at the most.

With shorter wheelbase bogies, there should be less flange squeal.

 

[Julian G]

Found a shot of 700112 on its way to to here.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroen17/24031440889/in/photostream/

 

[Skimble19]

700s, 365s, 319s are all that were planned to be cleared. I suspect 377s, 313s and the new Moorgate line stock will be clear. Anything else will need a gauging exercise. Having walked through the tunnels myself, I suspect the issue is more likely to be the existing line south of St Pancras station than the new tunnels.
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Lights on sticks remain. You can see the signals on the TL core map of open train times.

Probably a daft question but why would 365s need to be cleared down there?

 

[AM9]

Probably a daft question but why would 365s need to be cleared down there?

So that Cambridge commuters don't have to travel on the class 700 'cattle trucks' and can continue to enjoy the luxurious accommodation that they have been accustomed to.

 

[Hadders]

So that Cambridge commuters don't have to travel on the class 700 'cattle trucks' and can continue to enjoy the luxurious accommodation that they have been accustomed to.

Not exactly luxurious - the latest refresh does see them downgraded with the removal of the carpets, fewer bay seats etc. so the introduction of the 700s is not seen as so much of a retrograde step!

 

[grid56126]

Found a shot of 700112 on its way to to here.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroen17/24031440889/in/photostream/

Intriguing that they seem to be moving the units in smaller sections to Aachen West, where I guess they are formed into the longer train for movement via Belgium / France.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroen17/23771052194/in/photostream/

 

[Class377/5]

*Points to Steam on the Met*

*Wonders at potential to up-size to rail tours through the TL Core on Sunday evenings*

Its not going to happen. Comparing to the Met is pointless as due to OHLE and Ity Th a melink design, you have to shut the Core and isolate the overheads to allow permitted diesel taction, let aloe other types. Unless its dual voltage unit then its never going to happen.

Found a shot of 700112 on its way to to here.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroen17/24031440889/in/photostream/

Intriguing that they seem to be moving the units in smaller sections to Aachen West, where I guess they are formed into the longer train for movement via Belgium / France.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroen17/23771052194/in/photostream/

That picture is at Krefeld where the 700s are build. They are then shipped off to Wildernrath for commissioning so shouldn't be on its way here unless it went back to the factory. (That makes some sense with recent events).