Class 180's to.....Northern?

[devon_metro]

EMT want to have FC on the Norwich - Liverpool route apparently. Similar to XC on Nott - Cardefffff

 

[Galvanize]

I can see the Pioneers being used on the route if EMT get them. By customer demand if anything.

I think he [Tim] suggested that if they had the Pioneers, it would go towards having a half hourly London-Sheffield service!
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EMT want to have FC on the Norwich - Liverpool route apparently. Similar to XC on Nott - Cardefffff

That's just gonna reduce the capacity considerably!

 

[devon_metro]

Same concept as when FGW beefed up London - Cardiff to half hourly with 180s. They soon got too busy and HSTs were required. But none left!

 

[class 313]

I think he [Tim] suggested that if they had the Pioneers, it would go towards having a half hourly London-Sheffield service!
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That's just gonna reduce the capacity considerably!

Not if Pioneers or Meridians do the runs!

 

[devon_metro]

Waste of 125mph stock though at the end of the day.

 

[Galvanize]

Not if Pioneers or Meridians do the runs!

Not if the Pioneers or/and Meridians are used on the half hourly sheffield services!

 

[class 313]

Waste of 125mph stock though at the end of the day.

Yet the MML has a max speed of 110mph.
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Not if the Pioneers or/and Meridians are used on the half hourly sheffield services!

Seeing as HSTs are going onto the Nottinghams, then a few Meridians will be freed up

 

[Galvanize]

Yet the MML has a max speed of 110mph.
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Indeed. But maybe the 222s are 125mph to take advantage of speed increases if there's ever one planned to happen?

Seeing as HSTs are going onto the Nottinghams, then a few Meridians will be freed up

Don't forget Corby is going into the equation soon!

 

[1D53]

EMT ran a 222 to Liverpool this weekend and doesn't seem like anything was flagged up. Its worth reminding that these 180's are going on a short term deal until they are demanded either by Nat Ex or First for Harrogate and Hull services. They would be sat empty at Oxley otherwise for 18 months.

 

[class 313]

Indeed. But maybe the 222s are 125mph to take advantage of speed increases if there's ever one planned to happen?



Don't forget Corby is going into the equation soon!

I'm not forgetting. I'm saying that 222s could be used. Just because this person has said so now doesn't mean its going to be like that in the future! As with most things.

 

[Galvanize]

Good to see your not forgetting Corby!

Besides, if they use 222s on the Liverpool-Norwich corridor, not only would they have the same weight restrictions as the TPEx 185s on the Hope Valley, it would also be restricted to a mere 45mph from Ely to Lakenheath! I suppose the 125mph speed would be used between Peterborough and Grantham to good effect, but balenced with the 45mph restrictions in Anglia, and the other restrictions, it would have very little effect on journey times!

And as seen on another forum, a 4 car 222 has LESS standard class seats (124) than a 2 car 158 with 139!

 

[P156KWJ]

EMT want to have FC on the Norwich - Liverpool route apparently. Similar to XC on Nott - Cardefffff

I heard differently, as the 158s are being refurbished without FC. There would be no demand really.

When ex CT drivers were on strike, ex MML drivers were using 222s on the Nottingham-Sheffield part of the line, and I felt so much more relaxed on one than on a 158

 

[alex57601]

And as seen on another forum, a 4 car 222 has LESS standard class seats (124) than a 2 car 158 with 139!

I think it will be the 5-car 222s that would appear on the Liverpool services, as I heard the 4-car 222s from Hull Trains would be for the Corby services.

 

[P156KWJ]

EMT ran a 222 to Liverpool this weekend and doesn't seem like anything was flagged up. Its worth reminding that these 180's are going on a short term deal until they are demanded either by Nat Ex or First for Harrogate and Hull services. They would be sat empty at Oxley otherwise for 18 months.

all the way to Liverpool? Are you sure they didn't just do it to Sheffield and make everyone change to a 158? Unless the drivers were originally ex MML and transferred to CT, in which case they'd sign both the train and route?

 

[class 313]

all the way to Liverpool? Are you sure they didn't just do it to Sheffield and make everyone change to a 158? Unless the drivers were originally ex MML and transferred to CT, in which case they'd sign both the train and route?

Yes, all the way to Liverpool for driver training and to pass the class for the line.

 

[P156KWJ]

good - but I don't think there'd be any demand for first class - I think they should de-comission the first class like Central Trains did with TransPennine 158s and on SWT units

 

[First class]

Will a 222 fit into Platforms 1-6 at Lime Street, or can it only use the long 7-9?

Think there would be FC demand between Liverpool & Manchester, TPE is usually quite busy.

There was a suggestion on another forum, (dartslf), for EMT to run to St Pancras with a reversal at Sheffield with these 222s, would give Virgin a run for their money I suppose...

 

[P156KWJ]

but that would mean either running 8/9 car trains and splitting them or getting rid of the extremely busy Norwich trains at some times

 

[notaspotter]

Northern Rail are indeed getting 3 Class 180 units. They are to Run on Huddersfield - Blackpool via Manchester Victoria. These services start in December and I am pretty sure that the 180's will run from Dec also.

 

[adambro]

Northern Rail are indeed getting 3 Class 180 units. They are to Run on Huddersfield - Blackpool via Manchester Victoria. These services start in December and I am pretty sure that the 180's will run from Dec also.

Care to quote a reliable source?

 

[1D53]

Give it a week until one turns up at NH!!

 

[First class]

Northern Rail are indeed getting 3 Class 180 units. They are to Run on Huddersfield - Blackpool via Manchester Victoria. These services start in December and I am pretty sure that the 180's will run from Dec also.

Hmm, I don't think so...

1st post you made, and probably you're last...

Northern do not need 3 180s quite simply. A 150/156/158 is generally fine for this type of service, even a 142 occasionally pops up on similar routes. You're not seriously suggesting a 142 is replaced by a 180???

They need route clearance, new depot facilities and route learning for the drivers. now that is not going to happen by December.

Provide a source, or believe at your own risk of dissapointment. Why are people so interested in 180s? Have you not seen their failure rates?

 

[P156KWJ]

exactly, why do you think FGW are so quick about getting rid of them? Well I can only think of one answer hock:

 

[First class]

exactly, why do you think FGW are so quick about getting rid of them? Well I can only think of one answer hock:

I was always surprised about their failure rates because the 175s are pretty reliable, and they are from the same family.

The 180s offer improved comfort and probably cheaper to run than a larger HST, but I would rather sit in a less comfortable seat, safe knowing I would probably get to my destination. If they did come, fares would probably rise as a result anyway.

Wouldnt trust Northern with them though, they would get wrecked...

 

[1D53]

They need route clearance, new depot facilities and route learning for the drivers. now that is not going to happen by December.

I've had and seen information from a number of sources within Northern and Network Rail that a very real effort is being made by Northern to get these units short term. A lot of preparation works are being done for this, route clearance and depot facilities are sorted and some initial driver route learning is being done....

 

[P156KWJ]

I was always surprised about their failure rates because the 175s are pretty reliable, and they are from the same family.

The 180s offer improved comfort and probably cheaper to run than a larger HST, but I would rather sit in a less comfortable seat, safe knowing I would probably get to my destination. If they did come, fares would probably rise as a result anyway.

Wouldnt trust Northern with them though, they would get wrecked...

well judging by the state of 142035 today yes, I sat down and the chipboarded back of the seat gave way and fell out backwards! Good job no-one was sitting right behind me hock:

 

[First class]

I've had and seen information from a number of sources within Northern and Network Rail that a very real effort is being made by Northern to get these units short term. A lot of preparation works are being done for this, route clearance and depot facilities are sorted and some initial driver route learning is being done....

Ok - assume Northern do get them. Aren't they only available for a year lease anyway?

Northern would be better concentrating on improving their exisiting rolling stock, which we're going to be stuck with for a good 10 years to come, rather than getting rejected trains with questionable reliability, excessive capacity and increased costs to the company and subsequently the passenger.

What happens when they have to return to HSBC Rail? The new, fancy trains have suddenly dissapeared from thousands of passengers, they will not be impressed, particularly as fares will not decrease again...

I'm all for Northern having modern rolling stock, but it needs to be consistant across their fleet, they even have various liveries... I would rather see the units be put to better use on services like Liverpool-Norwich...

 

[rob s]

exactly, why do you think FGW are so quick about getting rid of them? Well I can only think of one answer hock:

I was on a 180 at the weekend and the train suddenly stopped outside Didcot. A few minutes later the PA comes on and apparently a child had pulled the emergency alarm and they couldn't reset it :roll: After a few minutes of staff walking up and down the train it got going again. This was in addition to the bored sounding member of staff announcing that there were plenty of appetising beverages and drinks but no hot drinks due to a faulty boiler!

 

[Philip]

Northern Rail are indeed getting 3 Class 180 units. They are to Run on Huddersfield - Blackpool via Manchester Victoria. These services start in December and I am pretty sure that the 180's will run from Dec also.

What's this about Huddersfield-Blackpool? Blackpool-Manchester's don't carry on to Huddersfield.

 

[adambro]

Northern haven't submitted a proposal for a vehicle change to Network Rail as far as I can see from NR's website, assuming Nothern's plans to utilise 180's are genuine, in what kind of a timescale should we expect to see this? I must say that whilst doubting this it would certainly be very interesting to see a 180 in Huddersfield working a Northern service. It would just be nice to see some hard evidence as I'm always cynical about most of the rumours that circulate on rail forums.