I know it's Hogmanay, but some of the posters have started on their tipples early, given the suggestions
There are so many new (old) lines that are needed (again) and thankfully some are on their way. The Varsity Line linking Oxford and Cambridge is in progress, at least from Oxford to Bedford by 2019. We remain to see what will happen East of Bedford.
East-west railways are needed in Hertfordshire and in many other places in the country.
Maldon (Essex) and Haverhill (Suffolk) are without rail links.
It is impossible to go from Norwich to King's Lynn directly by train.
North and North West Norfolk are poorly served.
East Lincolnshire is poorly served; a line needs to connect Skegness with Grimsby.
North Devon is poorly served, apart from the excellent preserved railway from Taunton to Minehead. A line needs to connect central Cornwall with Exeter via Launceston and Okehampton.
The old line Carmarthen to Aberystwyth needs reinstating ... and so on.
Your list of urgently needed lines generally all appear to be through relatively empty parts of the country.
It would be possible to get from Norwich to King's Lynn directly by train - the fact that Anglia/ National Express East Anglia/ Greater Anglia haven't bothered with such a service maybe tells you that they don't think it'd be with bothering with ought to tell us something though?
I reckon the greater need is for new new lines. Several lines in to London and other large conurbations are full, and longer distance trains with only a few stops conflict with all-stations trains. Whether new high speed routes are the best answer may be debateable, but something new that offers a far greater capacity increase than merely upgrading existing routes is certainly necessary, when you consider the continually rising numbers of passengers and the expected increase in the total population.
Agreed
Let's remember most of the beeching cuts were actually enacted by the subsequent Labour government. And BR had started cutting lines before that. There was a general consensus that the railways were on the way out. Hindsight's a wonderful thing.
My view is that many of the closures were sensible, a lot were marginal and in hindsight shouldn't have happened, and a fair few were plain nuts. The main line closures and drastic cutting in urban areas would be in the latter group.
Agreed.
Why shouldn't they? Railways should be a public service at affordable prices that everybody can use not just the well heeled.
As a top band taxpayer before retirement, I objected to paying taxes for hospital treatment for smokers and drunks, the war in Iraq and foreign aid to countries that have a space programme but had to pay taxes.
I also paid/pay rail subsidy in my taxes even though my nearest decent railhead is 30 miles away. Why shouldn't I have a reinstated rail link subsidised by those who have had a good local service for years already such as in and around London and other big cities?
Railways
are be a public service at affordable prices that everybody can use not just the well heeled.
That doesn't mean that every village in the UK has a right to one though. Heavy rail works best in urban areas, places with high population density, significant flows of people all day long, that kind of thing.
London and other cities can justify this. Towns with around fifteen thousand people can't always.
There always seems to be money for acres of tarmac with lights blazing twenty four hours a day to 'facilitate' rush hour traffic
As you say, more unnecessary tarmac with additional maintenance costs, snow clearing, carriageway lighting and unnecessary land take.
I've heard many reasons on this Forum for why rail is better than road, but I've never seen people get worried about the enormous cost of lightbulbs before
You're a charmer...
This £1billion could have been used to reinstate railways between Northallerton and Harrogate (White Rabbit Line), York-Market Weighton-(Beverley) (Minster Line) and Skipton-Earby-(Colne)
What's the fascination with Skipton to Colne?
Other than "because it was on a 1960s map"...
north and north west Norfolk simply don't have the population to support reopening any closed lines
That's it - if we have new lines then they need to be in relatively built up areas.
a slash and burn policy based on 'sexed up' statistics and dubious political patronage
I love a good conspiracy theory... don't forget to mention "The Establishment" though
To take the OP's suggestion about new lines and not reworking the same old story about re-opening rural lines in the middle of nowhere I suggest the following:
1 Outer London orbital - roughly following the M25 with interchanges with all lines entering London to reduce the need for cross London journeys and open up new travel opportunities
<snip> </snip>
3 Outer Manchester orbital roughly following M60 again to allow improved travel across Greater Manchester
1) Rail has a very high share of the travel into central London market and as you say Crossrail 2/3 are being developed to meet future demand. However, outside that market rail's market share is tiny. The London overground inner orbital service shows there is huge unmet demand for journeys that dont go into central London. The M25 supposedly carries more people a day than the whole national rail network - making journeys that are presently difficult to make by rail. A new outer orbital railway even if took only about 5% of journeys presently on the M25 would be one of the busiest in the country. It would also free up capacity on rail services into central London as those who presently travel into and out of London again would be diverted to it, reducing or delaying the need for very expensive capacity upgrades on these lines.
<snip> </snip>
3) M60 is one of the UK's busiest motorways clogged up with very short distance trips - Highways England would love to close many of the junctions on it to remove some of those trips and improve safety (huge amount of weaving traffic due to the short distance between junctions). A orbital railway would allow large number of trips which again are not very difficult by rail
The two orbital motorways are certainly busy - the trouble is that there are thousands of different journeys being made by them - heavy rail works best with large volumes.
Maybe there are some areas where light rail could link heavy rail hubs (e.g. Manchester Airport to Stockport), but the relative failure of "outer orbital" lines like Watford to St Albans, Stockport to Guide Bridge doesn't encourage me. You'd need to go closer in to work better (e.g. London Overground).
Unsurprisingly I agree re: "new lines and not reworking the same old story about re-opening rural lines in the middle of nowhere though"
The Fleetwood, Wisbech, Ashington, Coalville, Portishead, and other lines with track in place should be the prioty
Agreed re Ashington and Portishead. Simple commuter lines into nearby cities - no pretentions about some megascheme.
As I have said previously, I would rather crawl on my hands and knees than use a bus. If I can't travel by car or train then I will not travel. Many think the same way.
Such an enlightened attitude...
There are many who think the same way of heavy rail too - which is an inconvenient truth to a few people...
Thankfully and rightly transport priorities are dictated on what will benefit the most people per £spent and not on the desires of the crayonistas on these boards
Agreed
- but that's for another thread!!
- although not aware of any rail line in the UK in the modern era that has covered its capital costs!
