Issued a penalty fare, can I still get prosecuted?

[Theartixian]

I was travelling from Rugby to Milton Keynes with a child ticket despite having just turned 17, I was stopped at the ticket gates and once asked my age I said I was 15, he asked for my date of birth and so i told him i was actually 17.

I explained to him that i didn't have enough money to afford an adult ticket and I really needed to get home, and so he started asking me for my details and I complied, I was feeling really stressed out for having an awful day and this made an even bigger toll on me, I realized what I did was wrong and apologized, and he took me to the side and asked for some sort of ID, when i took out my student card, when he noticed more tickets in my wallet and asked to see them, now these tickets were not mine, I had kept them for my friend who was actually 15 because I was borrowing his wallet, and he took them in and assumed they were mine, I didn't argue they weren't mind, as I just wanted to get my fine and go as I was having a really stressful day, he kept the other tickets and he also kept my student card, which might have been an accident, i'm not sure if he was entitled to do that or not.

This is now 3 days later and I'm starting to worry that even though I was issued a penalty fare of £23 which i intend on paying fully, that I might get into more trouble about the other tickets, as repeat offenders are obviously more likely to be prosecuted. The inspector didn't say anything about this howeveer, only mentioned that this is very serious and could harm my future career or chances of getting into university, and said that from now on I should get adult tickets. i agreed and i wished him a happy new year and left. He had also said that if i was caught by his boss that he would have dealt with me very differently, which gave me hope that i infact did only get a penalty fare.

This has been honestly keeping me awake at night because I would hate to get a criminal record over £6. Do train companies tend to prosecute people after giving them a penalty fare?

 

[tony6499]

Possibly as it hasn't been paid yet , it could be withdrawn if somebody feels that a penalty fare wasn't the correct decision in this case and what you did wasn't a mistake but an attempt to defraud.

 

[trentside]

First of all, I'm sure we can all agree that you won't be doing this again and appreciate what a serious matter this is. Many of the 16 and 17 year olds I catch don't seem to appreciate this.

As a penalty fare has been issued, pay it and close the matter. This should be the end of it - but don't expect them to be so lenient next time. Especially if you have a wallet full of tickets showing previous journeys you've made on child tickets. I don't think any company will buy the "it was my friends wallet" excuse. I certainly don't, sorry.

Finally, look into a 16-25 railcard if you travel regularly.

 

[bb21]

As a penalty fare has been issued, pay it and close the matter. This should be the end of it - but don't expect them to be so lenient next time. Especially if you have a wallet full of tickets showing previous journeys you've made on child tickets. I don't think any company will buy the "it was my friends wallet" excuse. I certainly don't, sorry.

This is pretty much spot on.

Even though we would like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I don't think anyone would seriously believe that you borrowed someone else's wallet (Why would anyone let you do that?) which just happened to be stuffed full of used tickets that could get you further into trouble. Is there any ID for your friend in the wallet that could back up your story? Any advice provided on that basis is likely to be pointless and useless to you, but in the unlikely event that it was nothing but the truth, then of course you tell them that. Expect them to laugh at it though in that case.

I think the chance of a prosecution being pursued is low once your payment for the Penalty Fare is accepted in this case, but next time you are caught, expect them to come down on you like a ton of bricks.

 

[Saxonia]

First of all, I'm sure we can all agree that you won't be doing this again and appreciate what a serious matter this is. Many of the 16 and 17 year olds I catch don't seem to appreciate this.

As a penalty fare has been issued, pay it and close the matter. This should be the end of it - but don't expect them to be so lenient next time. Especially if you have a wallet full of tickets showing previous journeys you've made on child tickets. I don't think any company will buy the "it was my friends wallet" excuse. I certainly don't, sorry.

Finally, look into a 16-25 railcard if you travel regularly.

Bang on.
The railways are not out to prosecute every youth travelling on child tickets, especially on a first offence. We would much prefer that you bought the correct ticket in the first place, & to continue to buy the correct ticket. Personally, I very much doubt that this will end up in court - you have been given extremely sound advice here, so pay your fine, & just do the right thing in future.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There is a chance that if the Penalty Fare is not paid promptly then the information you have given the Inspector would be adequate to justify a Prosecutution for a regular fraud (those tickets would appear to be evidence enough of repeated travel on a child ticket).

But I agree with the others, that as the Inspector chose to issue you with a Penalty Fare, then that is how your incident is being processed, and there should be no opportunity for anyone to reconsider that decision if it is paid before the deadline.

You were fortunate.

 

[455driver]

I take it your 'friends' tickets happened to be between the same two stations you were travelling between? :roll:

Pay the penalty fare quickly and that will be the end of it, THIS TIME!
They can withdraw the penalty fare at any time and report you for prosecution (you handed over plenty of evidence for them) but once the PF is paid they don't normally bother.

Don't be so daft in future and everything will be fine, but get caught again (for any ticket irregularity) and those tickets will be used to build a Court case against you of being a serial fraudster.
You are now firmly on the naughty step and hopefully have realised that rail ticket fraud can have some very serious consequences.

 

[dmncf]

I take it your 'friends' tickets happened to be between the same two stations you travelling between?

And were there ever two sets of tickets for the same date; your set of tickets and your friend's set of tickets? It would support your excuse if there were.

 

[Theartixian]

I take it your 'friends' tickets happened to be between the same two stations you travelling between?

No I didn't see where what stations the other tickets were but I assume from Bedford to somewhere as thats where he lives, I was travelling Rugby to Milton Keynes

Thanks everyone for your help I really do appreciate it, I never realized quite how much trouble you can get into for trying to save £6. And although it seems ahrd to believe, I was actually borrowing my friends wallet, I have no reason to lie on here, I got a new wallet for Christmas which I was using but I returned it as I didn't like it, because i threw away my old wallet my friend gave me his own wallet, and since we were in a rush I just put everything else in the wallet without taking the tickets out, plus he's one of those people that likes to decorate his walls with train tickets, so I decided to not throw them away later

 

[Merseysider]

Finally, look into a 16-25 railcard if you travel regularly.

^This.

The railcard is only £30 for one year (discounts sometimes available online) and gives you a third off almost all tickets. If you can stump up the cash to buy the railcard, you won't really notice the transition to paying adult fare.

 

[island]

I think you've gotten away lightly. Make sure the Penalty Fare is paid on time and that you keep the receipt.

I don't think anyone is likely to believe why there were so many other invalid tickets in your wallet. People don't borrow and lend wallets.

Pay the right fare next time – and as above, get a Railcard!

 

[bb21]

And although it seems ahrd to believe, I was actually borrowing my friends wallet, I have no reason to lie on here, I got a new wallet for Christmas which I was using but I returned it as I didn't like it, because i threw away my old wallet my friend gave me his own wallet, and since we were in a rush I just put everything else in the wallet without taking the tickets out, plus he's one of those people that likes to decorate his walls with train tickets, so I decided to not throw them away later

That's fine. Remember it is not us here you need to convince, but the train company. If that is indeed the truth, however unlikely then so be it.

 

[Minilad]

No I didn't see where what stations the other tickets were but I assume from Bedford to somewhere as thats where he lives, I was travelling Rugby to Milton Keynes

Thanks everyone for your help I really do appreciate it, I never realized quite how much trouble you can get into for trying to save £6. And although it seems ahrd to believe, I was actually borrowing my friends wallet, I have no reason to lie on here, I got a new wallet for Christmas which I was using but I returned it as I didn't like it, because i threw away my old wallet my friend gave me his own wallet, and since we were in a rush I just put everything else in the wallet without taking the tickets out, plus he's one of those people that likes to decorate his walls with train tickets, so I decided to not throw them away later

What exactly did you think would happen. By trying to save £6 you broke the law. If you tried to save £6 in a shop by walking out without paying do you think that would be OK too?

 

[455driver]

What exactly did you think would happen. By trying to save £6 you broke the law. If you tried to save £6 in a shop by walking out without paying do you think that would be OK too?

The OP seems to fall into 'its only a train ticket it wont matter' camp, why is it that it always seems to be students or people working in finance who fall into that camp, you would think they would be intelligent enough to work out that it is fraud!

 

[trentside]

The OP seems to fall into 'its only a train ticket it wont matter' camp, why is it that it always seems to be students or people working in finance who fall into that camp, you would think they would be intelligent enough to work out that it is fraud!

For me it's the 16+ category who think "I'm still a kid, nothing can touch me", so it's ok to buy child tickets as nothing will happen. It's quite laughable when they can't provide a DoB to validate the age they've given you.

I must admit I take the approach of a gentle telling off and an excess fare the first time, or a new ticket if I get attitude from them.

 

[455driver]

For me it's the 16+ category who think "I'm still a kid, nothing can touch me", so it's ok to buy child tickets as nothing will happen. It's quite laughable when they can't provide a DoB to validate the age they've given you.

I must admit I take the approach of a gentle telling off and an excess fare the first time, or a new ticket if I get attitude from them.

So that would be a new ticket 99% of the time then!

 

[Starmill]

Some TOC's bean counters would not be very pleased at all with Child tickets being excessed into Adult tickets!

 

[455driver]

Some TOC's bean counters would not be very pleased at all with Child tickets being excessed into Adult tickets!

As it would have to be a deliberate act to buy a child ticket I can understand why!

Personally I think the OP was extremely likely to get away with a PF considering the other child tickets in his possession would probably be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was a serial fare evader.

 

[Clip]

As it would have to be a deliberate act to buy a child ticket I can understand why!

Personally I think the OP was extremely likely to get away with a PF considering the other child tickets in his possession would probably be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was a serial fare evader.

Very much indeed on both counts.

 

[CheesyChips]

...plus he's one of those people that likes to decorate his walls with train tickets...

The OP's to do list:

1) Pay correct fare for travel
2) Find new friends

 

[gimmea50anyday]

For me it's the 16+ category who think "I'm still a kid, nothing can touch me", so it's ok to buy child tickets as nothing will happen. It's quite laughable when they can't provide a DoB to validate the age they've given you.

I find it quite laughable when they open their wallets to pull out a child ticket and leave their driving license on show while doing it. If you are going to blag the fare, dont make it so bloomin' obvious!

Unfortunately the "improvement" in train tickets makes it clear the age limit which actually makes it harder for me to catch them out!

Some TOC's bean counters would not be very pleased at all with Child tickets being excessed into Adult tickets!

As it would have to be a deliberate act to buy a child ticket I can understand why!

The way i see it, it is a deliberate act to purchase a child ticket, so to knowingly travel on a child ticket is fraud, whereas travelling without a ticket at all is fare evasion

 

[WelshBluebird]

As it would have to be a deliberate act to buy a child ticket I can understand why!

Not always.
Certainly when I was around 16-18 there were a couple of times where I was issued with a child ticket by the guard without mentioning child or under 18 or half or anything to suggest I was asking for a childs ticket. Hell it even happened on a bus when I was 21 which was embarrassing to say the least!

 

[jimbo99]

Not always.
Certainly when I was around 16-18 there were a couple of times where I was issued with a child ticket by the guard without mentioning child or under 18 or half or anything to suggest I was asking for a childs ticket. Hell it even happened on a bus when I was 21 which was embarrassing to say the least!

I remember in the 1980s being given a child ticket on a train between Seaford and Lewes. I asked for an adult ticket and the bloke replied "that's very honest of you, but you don't look any older than my son" and issued a child ticket.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Not always.
Certainly when I was around 16-18 there were a couple of times where I was issued with a child ticket by the guard without mentioning child or under 18 or half or anything to suggest I was asking for a childs ticket. Hell it even happened on a bus when I was 21 which was embarrassing to say the least!

It might have helped if you had listened to your mum, given up wearing short trousers and stopped reading the Beano on the way to work