Hmm ~90 minutes now on a 2+2 regional express unit compared to 110+ minutes on a 3+2 outer suburban unit fighting with the Surbiton/Walton/Weybridge crowd for a "fast" out of Waterloo.
Would go down like a lead balloon to those paying quite handsomely for a season ticket to London
The Basingstoke stoppers are the main culprits for screwing up the suburbans, they regularly run late, that then blocks the 2Fxx out of Woking Bay, that then knocks the 2Jxx from Hampton Court, which then knocks the 2Hxx from Shepperton, which knocks the following 2Gxx, which knocks the 2Dxx, which knocks the 2Mxx, which knocks the 2Oxx, which knocks the (well you can see what happens).
One late Basingstoke or Alton screws up the entire suburban system, wee wee poor planning, when you could just go back to the 80's, combine & divide them at Woking. They run as an 8 car and call West Byfleet, Weybridge, Walton, Surbiton, Clapham (alternates), Waterloo.
Yes - I was vaguely aware - they've all had a new lick of paint, I know that much. However, the lack of air-con is a big issue.I'd give up on your 455 proposal. You do know they are going through a re-tractioning programme to give a further 10 year life with reduced maintenance needs - which allows for the depot space for the 707s at Wimbledon?
Yes, but it could also be done as part of the new franchise. TFLRail now run the Liverpool Street-Shenfield line now in advance of Crossrail - it could also happen on the SW Lines.'Splitting the franchise' will be achieved by Crossrail 2.
Yes, but it could also be done as part of the new franchise. TFLRail now run the Liverpool Street-Shenfield line now in advance of Crossrail - it could also happen on the SW Lines.
Once Crossrail 2 reaches a certain stage no doubt that would happen anyway, initially by requiring SWT of their successors to divide up a separate business unit, as was done by Abellio GA.
...but if done like on the other Liverpool St 'Overground' routes (the old West Anglia inners) it would make very little difference to performance or capacity. The original LO network inherited from Silverlink started from an incredibly low baseline, so the idea that transferring SWT's inner suburban routes to TfL would automatically provide massive improvement is somewhat debatable. Likewise most SWT inner suburban stations aren't that bad in comparison to some other areas.
What would be the downside of TfL potentially removing guards for instance?
Here is my wish list for the new Franchise for South West Lines:
Resilience: Overall resilience of network is not very good it takes only a minor delay with a broken down train to cause hours of delays for the rest of the network. Improvements or an overhaul of the timetable would be good to improve efficiency and improve resilience.
Management of Incidents a new emergency plan: South West Trains have not been very good at dealing with incidents on the line as is evident by the feedback they regularly receive on their Twitter handle. During the current franchise period, they have put in place an emergency plan to deal with most incidents. This plan involves sacrificing some lines in favour of others the Hampton Court branch is often one of the first to be suspended impacting thousands of rail users. This is a very blunt tool for dealing with a situation and not strictly necessary. The new franchise should be required to improve this emergency plan to make it fair to all stations across the network (if cancellations are necessary, they should be made across the network, not just on one line). Trains on the Hampton Court and Thames Ditton line are only currently every 30 minutes so sacrificing this line has a huge impact on rail users who have very limited alternatives. Thames Ditton is not served by any viable alternative bus route and SWT do not have any agreements in place with Abelio Surrey Bus. It would be possible to implement a Surbiton shuttle service in cases of an incident in most situations this would allow the rail network to be used and for alternative transport options to be taken at Surbiton. Using a shuttle service on the Hampton Court line in emergency plan situations should be something the new franchise should implement. There should be no further sacrificing of lines.
Increased Frequency. The Wessex Route Study by Network Rail ( http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Public...ssex-route-study/Wessex-Route-Study-Final.pdf )
invited comments for improvements to the South West Mainline. One of the areas for improvement identified was increased frequency for trains within 30 miles of central London with a minimum of 3 or 4 trains per hour (tpb). Conditional Output 14 (CO14) proposed increasing the number of trains on the Thames Ditton/Hampton Court line to 3-4tph. These stations are only 14-16 miles from Central London but poorly served in terms of frequency with only a 30 min service into London. Crossrail 2 project proposes a 4tph service for this line but this will only be of benefit from 2030 and beyond. The demand for the service is here now as is evidenced by gate entries/exits on this line. There are other stations on the network with less users but a more frequent service. Hampton Court Palace is also a major nationally significant visitor attraction and the infrequent service puts visitors off. The new franchise should double the number of services on this line. Ideally, this would be a 4tph service in each direction direct to Waterloo with 2tph offered as semi-fast . If this is not possible with some timetable reconfiguration, this could be achieved in the interim, as proposed in the consultation document, by a 2tph direct to Waterloo and 2tph running a shuttle to Surbiton if the pathways are congested from Raynes Park inwards. The Hampton Court/Thames Ditton line should be consider a vital component of the suburban/metro service.
Line Speed: The line speed for several services is now slower than it was a decade ago the distance from Hampton Court to Waterloo is only 14 miles yet takes almost 40 minutes in peak. Surbiton fast services used to be around 15-16 minutes and now take around 20 minutes. Improvements should be made to increase the line speed, acceleration/deceleration times and timetable improvements made to increase journey times.
Stock: The Class 455 trains used on the suburban trains are old and should be replaced before their official end of life. There are lots of train faults involving these units. If replacement isnt an option, air-conditioning should be retro-fitted to these units. In summertime, these trains are unbearably hot with very little ventilation. There are many incidents involving people being ill because of the lack of AC on these trains.
Both likely to happen.Delay Repay: Currently, South West Trains offer a 60 minute delay compensation scheme. This is now behind with industry competitors and is not fair to passengers. The new franchise should be part of the delay-repay scheme and compensate travellers if the journey is delayed for 30 minutes as a minimum. Ideally, there should be compensation offered in line with TfL underground users where compensation is paid after just 15 minutes delay. The mechanism for compensation should also be automatic, similar to the scheme introduced recently by Virgin Trains. Next year the Essex-based C2C service will offer automatic refunds to registered passengers, after delays of as little as two minutes. There is clearly a trend for improving compensation to passengers and the new franchise should implement these features at the start of the franchise. There has been a perception that South West Trains have been paid for Network Rail delays after 30 minutes but only paying their customers after 60 minutes and thus profiting from delays this should certainly not happen with the new franchise.
Smart Ticketing: This was promised as part of the South West Train franchise but has only been partially delivered. It has not been fully rolled out across the network. There should be financial penalties for not delivering on Franchise Agreements in full. Smart Cards should be rolled out as soon as possible across the whole network and be useable on the Underground. Ideally, the smart tickets should be extended to integrate with other transports modes (e.g. integrated with PlusBus type schemes). I still currently use a paper ticket despite living in Zone 6 and do not wish to use the Oyster as it is very difficult to claim for delays if using an Oyster card on South West Trains network for Oyster or contactless users, this should be made easier. The new franchise should look to remove paper season tickets.
Wifi will happen but don't expect it to be good or the signal near clapham to improve.Wifi: Good quality Wifi should be made available on all services. Improvements should also be made in conjunction with mobile phone operators (new masts or on board signal boosting) as there are several black holes on the network (e.g. just south of Clapham Junction).
Alliance are effectively dead outside Scotland. Competition potential isn't good for extracting maximum franchise revenue for DfTShort Formations: South West Trains have ran services in short formation. There should be a financial penalty for the new franchise for doing this as the impact this has on passengers is enormous. Extra trains should be purchased to allow for maintenance of existing stock and to allow for some overflow capacity.
Weekend Service: South West Trains often run 4 train cars during the weekend which are full to capacity/standing room only. The new franchise should provide more capacity during the weekends.
Boxing Day: Train services should be provided on Boxing Day. This is a key trading day and important to the UK economy. Other train operating companies provide a service on this day. The new South West Mainline franchise should provide a service on this day.
Earlier & Later services: Train services should be provided earlier and later to allow for people getting to work early or going out in central London. There should be an infrequent service through the night. Southampton Airport is on the mainline and other rail networks with an airport offer an infrequent night service/very early morning service.
Splitting the Franchise? Would it make sense to split the franchise in 2 to offer more competition e.g. maybe have TFLRail run the metro lines Hampton Court, Kingston Loop, Chessington South, Epsom and another franchise run the mainline.
Hope for some improvement with Crossrail 2In conjunction with the new franchise, the Network Rail Alliance (the New Franchise + Network Rail) should look into the following:
Surbiton Station Capacity: This station gets very overcrowded. The entrance and exit capacity to platforms is very limited with a single stairway to each platform. When two trains arrive at the same time as happens frequently in evening rush hour, there can be dangerous overcrowding. Capacity should be improved by doubling the number of stairs to the platforms and doubling the number of ticket barriers at the entrance and exit.
Connecting the Airports: Surrey and South West London are not very well connected with Heathrow Airport. Network Rail should look to connect the South West network to Heathrow Airport. This would be possible with a connection on the Feltham/Staines line (Heathrow Airtrack). It would also be relatively easy to tunnel between Hampton Court and Heathrow Airport with most of the tunnel travelling under parkland with a stop on the Staines line at Feltham. It would also be good if South West line could take over the Guildford to Gatwick Airport line.
Improving Signalling & Points: There have been multiple signal failures and points failures over the last few years in particular at Waterloo or Wimbledon. Network Rail should ensure that the signal equipment and points are upgraded as a priority.
Once Crossrail 2 reaches a certain stage no doubt that would happen anyway, initially by requiring SWT of their successors to divide up a separate business unit, as was done by Abellio GA.
...but if done like on the other Liverpool St 'Overground' routes (the old West Anglia inners) it would make very little difference to performance or capacity. The original LO network inherited from Silverlink started from an incredibly low baseline, so the idea that transferring SWT's inner suburban routes to TfL would automatically provide massive improvement is somewhat debatable. Likewise most SWT inner suburban stations aren't that bad in comparison to some other areas.
What would be the downside of TfL potentially removing guards for instance?
If SWT did loose their "Metro" routes to LO would it just be the 455s and 456s that would transfer over ot would their 707s transfer over as well?
The 707s are mainly for the Windsors. I think they go too far for TfL to be interested.
The 707s are mainly for the Windsors. I think they go too far for TfL to be interested.
OK, I'll work Boxing Day when you lot who purportedly work in offices, do the same!
No? Thought not.
OK, I'll work Boxing Day when you lot who purportedly work in offices, do the same!
No? Thought not.
Not sure how to do that unless you start stripping trains out of the timetable, or DfT accepts increased staf costs to have more Drivers/Guards. The network is full, there isn't really run to add any more trains, so if it goes wrong the knock-on effects quickly ripple. Think of someone slamming their brakes on in heavy motorway traffic - you quickly get a tailback as the reaction ripples through the traffic.Resilience: Overall resilience of network is not very good it takes only a minor delay with a broken down train to cause hours of delays for the rest of the network. Improvements or an overhaul of the timetable would be good to improve efficiency and improve resilience.
Management of Incidents
No idea on this. I've always been told the sacrificing is to try and take some pressure off the network. Surbiton - Hampton Court shuttles do happen (unless my BlackBerry tells lies). West of England services are also routinely terminated at Basingstoke - partly because they are the most self-contained unit/crew diagrams and also to try keep right-time starts from Basingstoke because if it goes wrong West of Salisbury due to the long single line stretches the whole timetable down there can be shot for the day. Dorking services seem to be the other ones that get cut. I think the problem is that other services inter-work, so cutting them isn't as straight forward, e.g. a Basingstoke stopper into Waterloo is usually an Alton back out (and vice versa). a new emergency plan: South West Trains have not been very good at dealing with incidents on the line as is evident by the feedback they regularly receive on their Twitter handle. During the current franchise period, they have put in place an emergency plan to deal with most incidents. This plan involves sacrificing some lines in favour of others the Hampton Court branch is often one of the first to be suspended impacting thousands of rail users. This is a very blunt tool for dealing with a situation and not strictly necessary. The new franchise should be required to improve this emergency plan to make it fair to all stations across the network (if cancellations are necessary, they should be made across the network, not just on one line). Trains on the Hampton Court and Thames Ditton line are only currently every 30 minutes so sacrificing this line has a huge impact on rail users who have very limited alternatives. Thames Ditton is not served by any viable alternative bus route and SWT do not have any agreements in place with Abelio Surrey Bus. It would be possible to implement a Surbiton shuttle service in cases of an incident in most situations this would allow the rail network to be used and for alternative transport options to be taken at Surbiton. Using a shuttle service on the Hampton Court line in emergency plan situations should be something the new franchise should implement. There should be no further sacrificing of lines.
Increased Frequency
There is no capacity to add anything new into Waterloo. Doing so would make your demands for a resilient timetable even less likely! Could see the logic for a Hampton Court shuttle, but other lines could equally say they want extra services. Should there also be a Surbiton - Guildford shuttle via the New Line to give Oxshott, etc, a 15 minute service?. The Wessex Route Study by Network Rail ( http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Public...ssex-route-study/Wessex-Route-Study-Final.pdf )
invited comments for improvements to the South West Mainline. One of the areas for improvement identified was increased frequency for trains within 30 miles of central London with a minimum of 3 or 4 trains per hour (tpb). Conditional Output 14 (CO14) proposed increasing the number of trains on the Thames Ditton/Hampton Court line to 3-4tph. These stations are only 14-16 miles from Central London but poorly served in terms of frequency with only a 30 min service into London. Crossrail 2 project proposes a 4tph service for this line but this will only be of benefit from 2030 and beyond. The demand for the service is here now as is evidenced by gate entries/exits on this line. There are other stations on the network with less users but a more frequent service. Hampton Court Palace is also a major nationally significant visitor attraction and the infrequent service puts visitors off. The new franchise should double the number of services on this line. Ideally, this would be a 4tph service in each direction direct to Waterloo with 2tph offered as semi-fast . If this is not possible with some timetable reconfiguration, this could be achieved in the interim, as proposed in the consultation document, by a 2tph direct to Waterloo and 2tph running a shuttle to Surbiton if the pathways are congested from Raynes Park inwards. The Hampton Court/Thames Ditton line should be consider a vital component of the suburban/metro service.
Line Speed
Retractioned 455s might help with quicker acceleration, but dwell times are a big issue due to the numbers of people travelling. I (and other Guards) are constantly being reminded about T-30 (starting the dispatch process 30 seconds before departure) to get the train away on time. It can be a challenge off peak even with people with buggies, wheelchairs, people wandering down to where they want to board, etc.: The line speed for several services is now slower than it was a decade ago the distance from Hampton Court to Waterloo is only 14 miles yet takes almost 40 minutes in peak. Surbiton fast services used to be around 15-16 minutes and now take around 20 minutes. Improvements should be made to increase the line speed, acceleration/deceleration times and timetable improvements made to increase journey times.
Stock
I like working 455s! Okay, can be hot in summer but I don't think they will get air-con. The new traction motors should make them more reliable, but the 455s do win awards for reliability so they can't be that bad.: The Class 455 trains used on the suburban trains are old and should be replaced before their official end of life. There are lots of train faults involving these units. If replacement isnt an option, air-conditioning should be retro-fitted to these units. In summertime, these trains are unbearably hot with very little ventilation. There are many incidents involving people being ill because of the lack of AC on these trains.
Delay Repay
Well that's what DfT specified. I suspect it will change in the new franchise.: Currently, South West Trains offer a 60 minute delay compensation scheme. This is now behind with industry competitors and is not fair to passengers. The new franchise should be part of the delay-repay scheme and compensate travellers if the journey is delayed for 30 minutes as a minimum. Ideally, there should be compensation offered in line with TfL underground users where compensation is paid after just 15 minutes delay. The mechanism for compensation should also be automatic, similar to the scheme introduced recently by Virgin Trains. Next year the Essex-based C2C service will offer automatic refunds to registered passengers, after delays of as little as two minutes. There is clearly a trend for improving compensation to passengers and the new franchise should implement these features at the start of the franchise. There has been a perception that South West Trains have been paid for Network Rail delays after 30 minutes but only paying their customers after 60 minutes and thus profiting from delays this should certainly not happen with the new franchise.
Smart Ticketing
This was explained to us at Smart card training earlier in the year. The franchise commitment was to just get a scheme in place, whuch happened. The problem getting into London was down to TfL not upgrading their infrastructure for so long, and now it has happened people are being moved over to Smart (Portsmouth Direct so far from notices up at the Depot).: This was promised as part of the South West Train franchise but has only been partially delivered. It has not been fully rolled out across the network. There should be financial penalties for not delivering on Franchise Agreements in full. Smart Cards should be rolled out as soon as possible across the whole network and be useable on the Underground. Ideally, the smart tickets should be extended to integrate with other transports modes (e.g. integrated with PlusBus type schemes). I still currently use a paper ticket despite living in Zone 6 and do not wish to use the Oyster as it is very difficult to claim for delays if using an Oyster card on South West Trains network for Oyster or contactless users, this should be made easier. The new franchise should look to remove paper season tickets.
Wifi
444/450 fleet now fitted, and the 458 fleet gets down next year. Not sure about 455/456 and 158/159 fleet - possibly next franchise?: Good quality Wifi should be made available on all services. Improvements should also be made in conjunction with mobile phone operators (new masts or on board signal boosting) as there are several black holes on the network (e.g. just south of Clapham Junction).
Short Formations
I always thought there was a penalty for a short formation, just as there is for cancelling trains or missing out stops?: South West Trains have ran services in short formation. There should be a financial penalty for the new franchise for doing this as the impact this has on passengers is enormous. Extra trains should be purchased to allow for maintenance of existing stock and to allow for some overflow capacity.
Weekend Service
A lot of capacity has just been added on a Sunday, and trains strengthened on a Saturday. Your beloved Hampton Court branch has got a few extra weekend and evebing services has it not?: South West Trains often run 4 train cars during the weekend which are full to capacity/standing room only. The new franchise should provide more capacity during the weekends.
Boxing Day
Mixed feelings on this one. Can see demand for a special timetable running on core routes. But you've got to get the staff in to run it all (not as easy as saying it has to happen). Maybe a trade off could be no Easter Sunday services? I mean, what is open on Easter Sunday? Trains are literally dead!: Train services should be provided on Boxing Day. This is a key trading day and important to the UK economy. Other train operating companies provide a service on this day. The new South West Mainline franchise should provide a service on this day.
Earlier & Later services:
You have an 04:52 Southampton Central - Waterloo train, and a new 05:20 Southampton Central - Waterloo train has just been introduced. Back from London there is an 00:05 to Bournemouth and an 01:05 to Southampton Central. I don't think you need much more than that. Plus need to allow time for engineering work overnight. Basingstoke - Eastleigh is a heavily used two-track railway.Train services should be provided earlier and later to allow for people getting to work early or going out in central London. There should be an infrequent service through the night. Southampton Airport is on the mainline and other rail networks with an airport offer an infrequent night service/very early morning service.
Splitting the Franchise?
Why? Again, this would make your service resilience worse not better (and you want a more resilient timetable that recovers from disruption don't you?). The more TOCs, the more crews, trains, etc.Would it make sense to split the franchise in 2 to offer more competition e.g. maybe have TFLRail run the metro lines Hampton Court, Kingston Loop, Chessington South, Epsom and another franchise run the mainline.
Surbiton Station Capacity
I thought the Art Deco station was listed? Might make redevelopment harder.: This station gets very overcrowded. The entrance and exit capacity to platforms is very limited with a single stairway to each platform. When two trains arrive at the same time as happens frequently in evening rush hour, there can be dangerous overcrowding. Capacity should be improved by doubling the number of stairs to the platforms and doubling the number of ticket barriers at the entrance and exit.
Connecting the Airports:
If this happened it would be branch from Staines, as all the proposals have talked about, rather than a tunnel from Hampton Court!Surrey and South West London are not very well connected with Heathrow Airport. Network Rail should look to connect the South West network to Heathrow Airport. This would be possible with a connection on the Feltham/Staines line (Heathrow Airtrack). It would also be relatively easy to tunnel between Hampton Court and Heathrow Airport with most of the tunnel travelling under parkland with a stop on the Staines line at Feltham. It would also be good if South West line could take over the Guildford to Gatwick Airport line.
Improving Signalling & Points:
Meant to be happening, and it feels like there are less delays due to these issues, but still get the big failures that cause it all to go Pete Tong.There have been multiple signal failures and points failures over the last few years in particular at Waterloo or Wimbledon. Network Rail should ensure that the signal equipment and points are upgraded as a priority.
OK, I'll work Boxing Day when you lot who purportedly work in offices, do the same!
No? Thought not.
OK, I'll work Boxing Day when you lot who purportedly work in offices, do the same!
No? Thought not.
Hopefully not working this year, unless I'm called in again. Can't say the same for my colleagues though.
Never understood why the rail industry is so special, when retail, air, coaches, power, hospitals etc carry on as normal.
Hopefully not working this year, unless I'm called in again. Can't say the same for my colleagues though.
Never understood why the rail industry is so special, when retail, air, coaches, power, hospitals etc carry on as normal.
Not forgetting that TfL run a full Sunday bus and tube service on Boxing Day and bus services on Boxing Day elsewhere are also on the increase. Let us also not forget our continental cousins, who generally run a full train service over Christmas.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to one and all!
You might find that TOCs would get more interest from their staff if they paid what BR used to in that it was paid at an enhanced rate usually Tx1.75, plus a day in lieu, but TOCs won't do that, so you won't much if any the interest from staff. You've got to make it worth my while.
SWT cut the drivers RD and overtime payment to basic time, which actually equates to less than a days pay in real terms, so a significant amount of drivers told them what they could do with their RDs and overtime. Now there's times when they simply cannot get drivers to cover the service, so they get a cancellation or two.
But what do Southeastern pay? Do they get a enhanced rate of pay, do they get lieu day?
You won't find many volunteers of you just pay basic, because after tax and NI you're working for less than a day's pay. That's why I won't even entertain it.
I don't care if the city/office lot want to go to the sales or shopping, plenty of time to do that at other times or online.