Northern franchise awarded to Arriva.

[Iskra]

There's already a direct Sheffield-Carlisle service via the S & C but it only runs once each way on a Sunday.

It dwells unnecessarily for 17 minutes on route and runs twice a week. It's hardly a proper service is it...

 

[Greybeard33]

Or maybe extend some of the Nottingham-Leeds services to Carlisle via the S & C?

I recall getting a through train from Appleby to Nottingham back in the 1970s. Loco hauled Mk.2s!

 

[northwichcat]

I see their website is now live:

http://www.arrivarailnorth.org/

Given there's a mention of test article and the images haven't been optimised I don't think it's officially live.

It does mention the 281 carriages will equate to 98 trains if someone wants to do some Maths to come up with possible combinations.

 

[Iskra]

It's mentioned here, http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2389043&postcount=90, but I think that's meant to be a historical reference to the franchise operator coming full circle (for the North East operation), and Arriva's previous use of class 37s on the S&C during 2004.

Yes, it was a joke. I know nothing of additional LHCS, although anything is possible...

 

[bearhugger]

Has there been any word regarding improvements to catering services? The Settle-Carlisle route could do with having more trains with catering. The Carlisle-Newcastle has no catering whatsoever. The Cumbrian coast could also do with catering, they'd make a fortune if every basher bought just one cup of tea!

Currently the S&C catering is provided by volunteers (the Friends of Settle Carlisle railway?) so improved catering would depend on them. I personally would like catering on Middlesbrough to Newcastle routes and Newcastle to Carlisle too.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

On that background, I'm not sure we should be scrapping any Pacers quite yet.

Hear Hear!

 

[johnpeter3]

Currently the S&C catering is provided by volunteers (the Friends of Settle Carlisle railway?) so improved catering would depend on them. I personally would like catering on Middlesbrough to Newcastle routes and Newcastle to Carlisle too.

Catering is provided by the Settle-Carlisle Railway Development Company. Improved catering on trains is great (and appreciated when good service is provided) but can be difficult to get adequate returns.

 

[bearhugger]

Catering is provided by the Settle-Carlisle Railway Development Company. Improved catering on trains is great (and appreciated when good service is provided) but can be difficult to get adequate returns.

Thanks for the clarification on that one

 

[ashworth]

Hmm they wont achieve this by stopping at every station. The line would be much better operated by running Sheffield-Worksop/Retford stoppers and then Sheffield-Worksop-Retford-Gainsborough LR-Saxilby-Lincoln only services anyway, IMO. How many people at Kiveton Park and Shireoaks want to go as far as Lincoln? Cant wager many and if they do they can change at Worksop or Retford.

Hopefully with a mixture of slightly faster non stop services between Sheffield and Worksop plus a stopping service, new timings will result at last in decent connections at Worksop to/from the Mansfield area.
I can't help but think that if a faster Sheffield to Lincoln service is to be provided meaning a stopping service will be needed for stations between Worksop and Sheffield, extending the hourly EMT Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop service would be a good way of providing it. This would also greatly improve connections and journey opportunities from Mansfield to the north. Currently passengers travelling north from Mansfield have to either endure a 45 minute wait at Worksop or first travel south via Nottingham.

 

[Haydn1971]

Lincoln-Sheffield will become part of the Northern Connect network, operated by new trains, with a minimum of 10 trains per day in each direction running through to Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds

Is this indicative of replacing the current Northern, Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds semi fast ?

Edit - just seen Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds listed as a Northern Connect route

 

[northwichcat]

Just realised Leeds to Nottingham is to be Bradford to Leeds to Wakefield Westgate to Nottingham.

 

[Haydn1971]

Just realised Leeds to Nottingham is to be Bradford to Leeds to Wakefield Westgate to Nottingham.

So that misses Barnsley ? The'll be feightin in t'committee rooms oh that !

 

[bradders1983]

Just realised Leeds to Nottingham is to be Bradford to Leeds to Wakefield Westgate to Nottingham.

Yup, although Barnsley seemingly gains an extra Leeds-Sheffield semi fast service to make up for it.

 

[thenorthern]

Just realised Leeds to Nottingham is to be Bradford to Leeds to Wakefield Westgate to Nottingham.

I have always felt Bradford is rather cut off from the rail network compared to most cities so today's announcements are very good for the city.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yup, although Barnsley seemingly gains an extra Leeds-Sheffield semi fast service to make up for it.

Strictly speaking, the current Leeds to Nottingham via Barnsley is diverted to Lincoln. The new service is the Bradford to Nottingham via Leeds and Wakefield Westgate.

 

[northwichcat]

Strictly speaking, the current Leeds to Nottingham via Barnsley is diverted to Lincoln. The new service is the Bradford to Nottingham via Leeds and Wakefield Westgate.

I suppose it depends what angle you're looking at it from. If you're in Nottingham and want to go to Leeds you still have a Leeds service but it'll go via a different route. If you're in Leeds and want Barnsley then you have to catch a Lincoln service instead of a Nottingham one.

 

[po8crg]

There's an announcement of a new Sheffield-Bradford. Does anyone know if that's via Leeds or via Brighouse?

 

[43074]

There's an announcement of a new Sheffield-Bradford. Does anyone know if that's via Leeds or via Brighouse?

That's via Leeds, it will be an extension of one of the (semi-)fast services, so it's likely to be 1tph Bradford - Nottingham via Wakefield Westgate, 1tph Bradford - Sheffield via Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[Robertj21a]

Very refreshing to have 2 franchise announcements where significant benefits to so many people will result. Most unusual to have virtually unanimous praise for the decisions, and the planned improvements that will then follow in due course.

More 'good' decisions in future please !

 

[ScotTrains]

Considering the Northern franchise is slightly similar to the Scotrail franchise I am still quite surprised by the complete lack of catering commitments required. Scotrail has catering on trains (156s, 158s) going to all corners of the network: Wick/Thurso, Kyle, Oban, Mallaig and soon Dumfries, as well as their intercity routes. Yet Northern have nothing! Northern have a number of routes that would benefit from a franchise catering commitment. I guess if you're not used to catering the lack of it wont bother you much. Just remember to take a flask when you travel with Northern!

 

[swt_passenger]

Considering the Northern franchise is slightly similar to the Scotrail franchise I am still quite surprised by the complete lack of catering commitments required. Scotrail has catering on trains (156s, 158s) going to all corners of the network: Wick/Thurso, Kyle, Oban, Mallaig and soon Dumfries, as well as their intercity routes. Yet Northern have nothing! Northern have a number of routes that would benefit from a franchise catering commitment. I guess if you're not used to catering the lack of it wont bother you much. Just remember to take a flask when you travel with Northern!

DfT rarely have anything to say about catering in English franchise ITTs. I seriously believe they don't think it is their responsibility, and that franchisees will make a commercial decision on their offer.

 

[WatcherZero]

I've worked out what the 12 x Northern Connect routes will be:
Manchester Airport to Barrow (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Windermere (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Blackpool (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington (new DMUs)
Chester to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Liverpool to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield (new DMUs)
Sheffield to Scarborough (new DMUs)
Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurbished 158s)
Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished DMUs - 158s?)
York to Blackpool (new DMUs)

Southport to Leeds is listed as a Connect as well, could be some of those you've listed are single service routes with differing destinations, e.g. Barrow/Windermere to Airport is one 'route'. Also the future Wigan-Manchester Airport express electric service is a Connect.

Only the Liverpool/Wigan-Airport will be EMUs until TP wiring is complete
Presumably the services on the western end of the line are unchanged, plus an occasional TPE Liverpool-Wigan-Glasgow.
Will the Wigan services extend to Windermere in certain hours (the Windermere text does not specify a route)?
This also looks like Wigan's only Airport service (ie none via Bolton/Atherton).
This also means no direct Southport-Airport service (diverted via the Calder Valley instead?).

Presumably all this assumes the Ordsall Chord and Huyton 4-tracking will be finished, plus the very vague "Manchester-Bradford journey time improvements".

Its hard to tell, by the end of the decade final incarnation is 7 Wigan-Manchester services per hour.

2tph Wigan-Manchester via Bolton which will be electric (so possibly originating in Wigan?)
4tph via Atherton including Barrow and Windermere services
1tph Wigan North Western-Manchester Airport via Oxford Road (could be Chat Moss, could not)

One hourly Southport service will run through to Leeds/Bradford so I would guess diesel via Atherton and Victoria, the other hourly Southport service could still run through to the Airport. Kirkby presumably becomes a hourly shuttle unless its one of the services via Atherton.

One issue I see is four or five of the seven will be operating from North Western rather than Wallgate as well as the three per day Liverpool-Glasgow. That's a pretty hefty increase in North Western traffic and the eastern side of WCML bays may be going from pretty quiet to very hard working.

Wallgate on the other hand may become very quiet, 2tph to Southport and 1tph to Kirkby.

 

[Robertj21a]

Considering the Northern franchise is slightly similar to the Scotrail franchise I am still quite surprised by the complete lack of catering commitments required. Scotrail has catering on trains (156s, 158s) going to all corners of the network: Wick/Thurso, Kyle, Oban, Mallaig and soon Dumfries, as well as their intercity routes. Yet Northern have nothing! Northern have a number of routes that would benefit from a franchise catering commitment. I guess if you're not used to catering the lack of it wont bother you much. Just remember to take a flask when you travel with Northern!

I guess that a good many locations on Northern are likely to have at least hot drinks available on the station, or at least nearby - certainly more than on the lines to Mallaig, Thurso etc.

 

[geoffk]

4tph via Atherton including Barrow and Windermere services

So Windermere is being electrified but its Manchester service sent via Atherton rather than Bolton, is that right? The interactive map certainly suggests that, but maybe it goes via Golborne/Parkside Jns.

 

[47802]

I've worked out what the 12 x Northern Connect routes will be:
Manchester Airport to Barrow (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Windermere (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Blackpool (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington (new DMUs)
Chester to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Liverpool to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield (new DMUs)
Sheffield to Scarborough (new DMUs)
Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurbished 158s)
Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished DMUs - 158s?)
York to Blackpool (new DMUs)

I still remain to be convinced that there is NO difference in what it describes as 'New' and 'Brand New' and that the 'New' might mean new to Northern and end up being 185's or 170's, not that I would be unhappy with that if that was the case.

 

[ag51ruk]

Do you have a source for that?

I know the trains used on such services will have to provide a catering service, wi-fi and plug sockets but not the stations.

The section on improvements to the Newcastle - Carlisle line includes a statement about Northern Connect stations on that route - I imagine theat is the spec for others as well

that MetroCentre and Hexham will become Nborthern Connect stations, open from 6am until 10pm with free Wi-Fi and refreshments available for purchase

 

[Bletchleyite]

I still remain to be convinced that there is NO difference in what it describes as 'New' and 'Brand New' and that the 'New' might mean new to Northern and end up being 185's or 170's, not that I would be unhappy with that if that was the case.

Yes, I think there is a good chance there is a distinction here, and "new" means "not old" i.e. "not Class 15x".

 

[WatcherZero]

So Windermere is being electrified but its Manchester service sent via Atherton rather than Bolton, is that right? The interactive map certainly suggests that, but maybe it goes via Golborne/Parkside Jns.

Only other thing I saw was the existing Windermere frequency will be maintained with a shuttle to the WCML, this could become electric. Also possible the Atherton train could be a bi-mode or they could do a further reshuffle after Wigan-Bolton and Windermere are electrified.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The section on improvements to the Newcastle - Carlisle line includes a statement about Northern Connect stations on that route - I imagine theat is the spec for others as well

No mention of on train catering, though. And that isn't surprising, if the stations are to be provided with it. On train catering (except First Class freebies on very long distance services) is on the wane as stations get better in this regard.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Yes, I think there is a good chance there is a distinction here, and "new" means "not old" i.e. "not Class 15x".

What about Class 230, then...? New class but old trains