Northern franchise awarded to Arriva.

[LLivery]

The plans look very good, hopefully they will be as good as they seem. I am surprised there are no proposals for new stations at Peterlee or (even) Middlewich. A long lasting iconic livery retained over franchises would be good, however, doubt it will happen.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I think the S and C is well marketed, but marketing can only acheive so much.

As for a scenic service: A much more tangible improvement would be to have a semi-fast Leeds-Glasgow running over the line, even 1tp2h would see patronage boom.

Or maybe extend some of the Nottingham-Leeds services to Carlisle via the S & C?

 

[Bantamzen]

Leeds > Bradford > Manchester > Warrington BQ > Chester will be an hourly service
http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html
(click on Chester to Leeds)

Ah missed that one, thanks! Although I can't help thinking it might be quicker to use the Leeds-Liverpool TPE, jump off at Newton-Le-Willows and connect to Warrington that way. I guess I'll have to wait and see when the routes kick in and timetables produced.

 

[ag51ruk]

I do wonder whether we will see Northern eventually take some of TPE's 185s - the TPE press release suggests that they will only retain a small amount of the existing fleet (around 20 x 3 car trains) so the rest will be looking for a home and they're currently all based in Manchester

 

[ainsworth74]

A gentle reminder that we have a specific thread for discussing TPE which can be found here. Obviously there is going to be some overlap but if we could try to stick to Northern on this thread that would be excellent

 

[Haydn1971]

Any mention of a Northern Connect service calling at Dore-Chinley-Stockport replicating the EMT service pattern ?

 

[ag51ruk]

I see that 'northernconnect.co.uk' was registered by Arriva on 24 November, so they must have known this was coming for a couple of weeks.

From some of the info released, Northern Connect will be a standard applied to stations as well as the express trains - with Northern Connect stations staffed every day from 06.00 to 22.00 and waiting room/refreshment facilities provided.

 

[CAF397]

Worth remembering a recent Class 387 order by Porterbrook for 80 vehicles (20*4-car?) not currently listed to any operator. Could this be for Arriva Northern?

https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/pages/corp2015.html

 

[JaJaWa]

I see that 'northernconnect.co.uk' was registered by Arriva on 24 November, so they must have known this was coming for a couple of weeks.

From some of the info released, Northern Connect will be a standard applied to stations as well as the express trains - with Northern Connect stations staffed every day from 06.00 to 22.00 and waiting room/refreshment facilities provided.

All of the bidders registered related website addresses. WiFi too for the Northern Connect stations.

 

[Darandio]

I see that 'northernconnect.co.uk' was registered by Arriva on 24 November, so they must have known this was coming for a couple of weeks.

Standard practice really, i'm surprised it wasn't done sooner.

However, someone may well have been holding on to the site and Arriva had to get it sorted.

 

[Norb]

Anyone able to come up with a list of northern connect stations? (reasonably accurate )

 

[Kells21]

What does this mean for northern rail then ? Will they still front the service with arriva simply running it replacing serco and abellio ?

 

[Iskra]

Or maybe extend some of the Nottingham-Leeds services to Carlisle via the S & C?

It's a possibility, but Leeds-Glasgow via the S&C makes more sense as it's a faster route connecting two big cities, so a direct service would be lucrative.

Nottingham-Carlisle doesn't really add much, but I'd still welcome it providing it didn't adversely affect performance on each 'leg'.

Obviously, Nottingham-Glasgow via Leeds and Carlisle would be the dream, but it's quite aspirational.

 

[ainsworth74]

What does this mean for northern rail then ? Will they still front the service with arriva simply running it replacing serco and abellio ?

Arriva will now be running the Northern Rail franchise. The exact branding has, as far as I'm aware, not yet been annouced. But Serco & Abellio will no longer be involved once the new franchise starts.

 

[swt_passenger]

What does this mean for northern rail then ? Will they still front the service with arriva simply running it replacing serco and abellio ?

'Northern' is just the present trading name. Note that Abellio/Serco's public name is just Northern, even though their website is northernrail.org.

The new 'franchisee' is Arriva - and they can call it what they like, in theory, although it apparently has to have some relation to Northern.

It isn't unusual for a franchise to effectively have at least three different names at once, one used by the DfT for administrative purposes, the franchisee's legal name, and the trading name.

 

[CromptonLad]

Some good news here. If Arriva "North" is tun similar to ATW then I look forward to it. ATW had issues with the Cambrian but that was due to the experimental ERTMS I believe but otherwise from where I stand ATW was (and is) a good TOC as a passenger. Fingers crossed.

The new workshop in Widnes mentioned on page 1 would be a string on the bow too as it would mean relatively near maintenanve etc.

 

[northwichcat]

Anyone able to come up with a list of northern connect stations? (reasonably accurate )

Stations or routes? Stations like Blackpool North, Warrington Bank Quay, Chester, Sheffield, Leeds and Bradford will see Northern Connect services but they will also see standard Northern services.

 

[unlevel42]

Obviously, Nottingham-Glasgow via Leeds and Carlisle would be the dream, but it's quite aspirational.

A current 4h 29 dream

 

[Kells21]

'Northern' is just the present trading name. Note that Abellio/Serco's public name is just Northern, even though their website is northernrail.org.

The new 'franchisee' is Arriva - and they can call it what they like, in theory, although it apparently has to have some relation to Northern.

It isn't unusual for a franchise to effectively have at least three different names at once, one used by the DfT for administrative purposes, the franchisee's legal name, and the trading name.

makes sense thanks for that

 

[Stats]

Arriva will now be running the Northern Rail franchise. The exact branding has, as far as I'm aware, not yet been annouced. But Serco & Abellio will no longer be involved once the new franchise starts.

Their press release says they will operate the franchise under a refreshed Northern brand.

 

[northwichcat]

Any mention of a Northern Connect service calling at Dore-Chinley-Stockport replicating the EMT service pattern ?

No.

Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield and Sheffield to Hull will be Northern Connect services both getting brand new trains, but no mention of any new services to Manchester, other than some enhancements to the Hope Valley stopper.

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html

As the North East 'Northern Connect' services will be refurbished 158s and the Yorkshire/North West ones will be new trains I'm guessing that means the new trains will be split between a North West depot and a Yorkshire one, with possibly some 158s moving from Neville Hill to Heaton to free up space for new trains.

 

[Norb]

Stations or routes? Stations like Blackpool North, Warrington Bank Quay, Chester, Sheffield, Leeds and Bradford will see Northern Connect services but they will also see standard Northern services.

I am given to understand that Northern Connect stations will be staffed longer and have free WIFI, with a catering offering, rather than other simply northern stations.

eg on the Blackpool North to Manchester Airport Northern Connect route, I would envisage that there would be a Northern Connect Station at Bolton, but would there be one at Chorley?

 

[Iskra]

A current 4h 29 dream

Sunday journeys often contain a lot of padding for engineering works. That train you quoted has 17 minutes sat at Leeds and 5 at Wakey Kirkgate!!

Nottingham-Glasgow currently comes in at 5h 30 to 6h. I'm confident that could be bettered with a direct train, which passengers usually prefer.

 

[thenorthern]

One thing I hope we see its infrastructure improvements as its great to have 100 mph capable trains but if the linespeed stays the same much of the potential is wasted. Rather like on the Chase Line where they have Class 170s despite the linespeed only being 45 mph.

The withdrawal of Pacers will be beneficial to the Mid Cheshire Line as it will mean the 20 mph speed restriction on certain parts by just filling out some paperwork.

 

[northwichcat]

I've worked out what the 12 x Northern Connect routes will be:
Manchester Airport to Barrow (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Windermere (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Blackpool (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington (new DMUs)
Chester to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Liverpool to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield (new DMUs)
Sheffield to Scarborough (new DMUs)
Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurbished 158s)
Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished DMUs - 158s?)
York to Blackpool (new DMUs)

 

[Bantamzen]

Worth remembering a recent Class 387 order by Porterbrook for 80 vehicles (20*4-car?) not currently listed to any operator. Could this be for Arriva Northern?

https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/pages/corp2015.html

The key phrase could be this from your link:

A number of parties have already expressed an interest in leasing this new fleet, notably Rail for London but also established operators and prospective bidders of upcoming franchises

Although these wouldn't exlain the 6 car formations, unless Bombardier can produce them as 3 car units which would then be doubled up?

 

[northwichcat]

I am given to understand that Northern Connect stations will be staffed longer and have free WIFI, with a catering offering, rather than other simply northern stations.

Do you have a source for that?

I know the trains used on such services will have to provide a catering service, wi-fi and plug sockets but not the stations.

 

[bradders1983]

I've worked out what the 12 x Northern Connect routes will be:
Manchester Airport to Barrow (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Windermere (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Blackpool (new EMUs)
Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington (new DMUs)
Chester to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Liverpool to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Manchester Airport to Leeds via Bradford (new DMUs)
Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield (new DMUs)
Sheffield to Scarborough (new DMUs)
Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurbished 158s)
Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished DMUs - 158s?)
York to Blackpool (new DMUs)

Assuming these will only serve Worksop/Retford/Gainsborough/Saxilby after Sheffield and the other stations of the line will be left with the remaining Sheffield-Lincoln services plus the Retford/Worksop terminators?

 

[northwichcat]

The withdrawal of Pacers will be beneficial to the Mid Cheshire Line as it will mean the 20 mph speed restriction on certain parts by just filling out some paperwork.

I reckon a half-hourly Sprinter service could take at least 6 minutes off the journey time even stopping at all stations. The current timings also allow for dwell times based on 3 sets of doors and Pacers being slower to accelerate than Sprinters which affects timings partcuraly between Skelton and Edgeley Junction. A double 150 I was on last Saturday arrived at Edgeley Junction at 10 minutes past the hour, when it didn't have to depart Stockport until 16 minutes past the hour.

 

[Norb]

Do you have a source for that?

I know the trains used on such services will have to provide a catering service, wi-fi and plug sockets but not the stations.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/massive-boost-to-rail-services-in-the-north-west-brings-northern-powerhouse-to-life

•a new high-quality ‘Northern Connect’ service, meaning new or refurbished trains on longer-distance services, faster journeys and stations staffed daily with catering services and free Wi-Fi at each one – as well as serving Liverpool and Manchester, this network will also serve other destinations including Blackpool North, Lancaster, Barrow, Chester, Windermere, Huyton, Carlisle and Warrington

My emphasis