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Northern Rail strengthening from 14th December

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northwichcat

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Northern Rail have said most Southport to Manchester via Atherton services will be 4 carriages from the December timetable change. In response to Twitter queries they've implied that the Sheffield area won't see any additional carriages but that Bolton will see more carriages than pre-Farnworth Tunnel works. MCRUA have been told the 07:17 Manchester-Chester will be 4 carriages as well.

The carriages being released have come from the introduction of 319s on Liverpool to Warrington and Preston services.
 
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HMS Ark Royal

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Add to that the possibilities of a daily Carlisle - Leeds service with the 37 hauled trains...! I asked their twitter people about this as a joke and they replied that they were looking into it. So... Who is up for a winter run over the S&C then?
 

thealexweb

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What is the current status of most Southport to Manchester Airport services? Are they still usually double 142s? And what about the Blackpool North to Huddersfield runs?
 

northwichcat

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What is the current status of most Southport to Manchester Airport services? Are they still usually double 142s?

My understanding is most are 4 car Pacers but there are some 4 car formations which include 150s used on Southport-Airport services, possibly even a 4 car formation including a 156 (but that might have changed with the 156s being loaned to TPE.)

And what about the Blackpool North to Huddersfield runs?

Anything east of Stalybridge has to have a maximum of 3 carriages in use due to very short platforms, so regular 4 car workings would be a waste unless the units split at Victoria.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Add to that the possibilities of a daily Carlisle - Leeds service with the 37 hauled trains...! I asked their twitter people about this as a joke and they replied that they were looking into it. So... Who is up for a winter run over the S&C then?

Did they mean Northern are looking in to it or did they mean they (the customer service team manning the Twitter feed) had no idea so needed to consult another team before giving a proper response?
 

thealexweb

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My understanding is most are 4 car Pacers but there are some 4 car formations which include 150s used on Southport-Airport services, possibly even a 4 car formation including a 156 (but that might have changed with the 156s being loaned to TPE.)



Anything east of Stalybridge has to have a maximum of 3 carriages in use due to very short platforms, so regular 4 car workings would be a waste unless the units split at Victoria.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Did they mean Northern are looking in to it or did they mean they (the customer service team manning the Twitter feed) had no idea so needed to consult another team before giving a proper response?

Thanks for the information. I have used the Blackpool North to Huddersfield services between Blackpool North and Manchester Victoria and I have not observed any splitting of units when at Manchester Victoria.
 
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sprinterguy

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As in it is on their list of plans to do
As part of the new Northern franchise, possibly, but with the December timetable change only a week and a half away I would have expected to hear more "chatter" if the introduction of additional loco-hauled trains was imminent. There's certainly no indication of loco-hauled services in the new S&C timetable like there is in the Cumbrian Coast one (Nice of Northern to pick those services out for the benefit of the bashers :lol:).
 
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PHILIPE

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There has been previous discussion back un the Summer re LHCS on the S&C and which pointed out the operational difficulties.
 

R Trevithick

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Vic-Hudds are often comprised of 4 car trains. Tends to involve some long train/short platform working and some locking out of rear unit at Hudd until unit reaches Greenfield
 

evoluzione

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Anything east of Stalybridge has to have a maximum of 3 carriages in use due to very short platforms, so regular 4 car workings would be a waste unless the units split at Victoria.

Not true, 2 sets run regularly on that route, long train short platform working.
 

evoluzione

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With 4 carriages in use? If not then I'm not sure why you are disagreeing with my statement.

Yes with all 4 in use, it's only really Slaithwaite on the down that can cause problems but you can still get 2x142 on, just, if you've got a 15x in the formation then it'll be long train short platform working at Slaithwaite.

As mentioned above the rear set is usually locked out at Huddersfield for the return and opened back up at Greenfield as both Slaithwaite and Platform 3 at Marsden are short on the up.
 
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northernchris

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Northern Rail have said most Southport to Manchester via Atherton services will be 4 carriages from the December timetable change. In response to Twitter queries they've implied that the Sheffield area won't see any additional carriages but that Bolton will see more carriages than pre-Farnworth Tunnel works. MCRUA have been told the 07:17 Manchester-Chester will be 4 carriages as well.

Are the Southport-Victoria services self contained as I thought they interworked with Wigan and Blackpool services? Would have been good if the Calder Valley route saw additional capacity, especially as there has been a lot of short forming recently
 

Iskra

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With 4 carriages in use? If not then I'm not sure why you are disagreeing with my statement.

I was on 2x150 from Victoria to Hudds last weekend with both units in service and full of passengers, so it does happen.
 

northwichcat

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Are the Southport-Victoria services self contained as I thought they interworked with Wigan and Blackpool services?

That might be why Bolton is getting more carriages as well.

Would have been good if the Calder Valley route saw additional capacity, especially as there has been a lot of short forming recently

Well if Northern are struggling to run the booked number of carriages on Calder Vale services it perhaps wouldn't be a good idea to try and run more longer services but to aim to run existing services with the booked number of carriages.

Maybe Northern should have four categories of services - possibly red, amber, yellow and green. Then red ones always get strengthened except in exceptional circumstances, amber ones get strengthened unless they are short of carriages, yellow ones may be strengthened if there's sufficient carriages in service and green ones don't get strengthened?
 

175001

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Anything east of Stalybridge has to have a maximum of 3 carriages in use due to very short platforms, so regular 4 car workings would be a waste unless the units split at Victoria.

Once again, this has been explained many times by myself, who's worked this line as a Guard and now as a Driver.

4 cars are allowed open on the DOWN, but short train short platform has to be instigated at Slaithwaite, and dependent on the formation at Marsden. 2x142's, 142+150 are ok, 150x2 is a push, anything in tadem with a 156 is a NO really.

4 cars can be used on the UP only from Greenfield onwards. The rear 2 MUST be locked out for Slaithwaite and Marsden. This is the rule, as stated in the Sectional Appendix and cannot be overriden.

Here's the quote from the Local Instructions in the LNE Sectional Appendix.

Trains composed of power operated door stock longer than a 3 car Class 14X unit or a 2 car Class 15X unit available for
public use must not stop for traffic purposes at the following station platforms:-
Slaithwaite - Down and Up (Both 60 metres)
Marsden - Up Passenger Loop (51 metres)

Any additional units conveyed must be locked out of public use throughout
 

geoffk

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My contacts in the area suggest that 2 x 142, with both units in use, is quite a common formation on the Man Vic - Huddersfield stoppers.

TPE's franchise specification includes a semi-fast Manchester - Leeds calling at the four stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield, on a skip-stop basis. This will replace the Northern stopper.

TPE will just have 185s plus whatever extra stock they bid for (class 442 plus loco has been discussed here). So use of a 185 will require platform lengthening at Slaithwaite and Marsden (unless they use pl. 2 at Marsden). Or do 185s have selective door opening? I recall that a 185 is used on the first train down the Barton-on-Humber branch so I guess they do.
 

northwichcat

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TPE's franchise specification includes a semi-fast Manchester - Leeds calling at the four stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield, on a skip-stop basis. This will replace the Northern stopper.

TPE will just have 185s plus whatever extra stock they bid for (class 442 plus loco has been discussed here). So use of a 185 will require platform lengthening at Slaithwaite and Marsden (unless they use pl. 2 at Marsden). Or do 185s have selective door opening? I recall that a 185 is used on the first train down the Barton-on-Humber branch so I guess they do.

Network Rail planned on 4 car 170s being used on the semi-fasts until electrification and allowed for platform lengthening at the stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield to allow 4 car 170s to stop at those stations. However, I'm not sure what the plan is supposed to be now.
 

Solent&Wessex

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My contacts in the area suggest that 2 x 142, with both units in use, is quite a common formation on the Man Vic - Huddersfield stoppers.

TPE's franchise specification includes a semi-fast Manchester - Leeds calling at the four stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield, on a skip-stop basis. This will replace the Northern stopper.

TPE will just have 185s plus whatever extra stock they bid for (class 442 plus loco has been discussed here). So use of a 185 will require platform lengthening at Slaithwaite and Marsden (unless they use pl. 2 at Marsden). Or do 185s have selective door opening? I recall that a 185 is used on the first train down the Barton-on-Humber branch so I guess they do.

Class 185s do not have SDO.

I believe the method of work on the Barton Branch is to open only one door - the locally operated door with the GOP in the centre car. This is fine if the train and station are quiet (like the Barton branch), but not if the train is busy (like HUD - MCV stoppers).
 

Bevan Price

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My contacts in the area suggest that 2 x 142, with both units in use, is quite a common formation on the Man Vic - Huddersfield stoppers.

TPE's franchise specification includes a semi-fast Manchester - Leeds calling at the four stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield, on a skip-stop basis. This will replace the Northern stopper.

TPE will just have 185s plus whatever extra stock they bid for (class 442 plus loco has been discussed here). So use of a 185 will require platform lengthening at Slaithwaite and Marsden (unless they use pl. 2 at Marsden). Or do 185s have selective door opening? I recall that a 185 is used on the first train down the Barton-on-Humber branch so I guess they do.
Trying to accommodate all the local passengers on 185s that are already fairly full with longer distance passengers should be an interesting "experience".
 

WatcherZero

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The methodology used by Northern Rail involved analysis and consideration of a range of criteria from a variety of sources:
• Top 5% most crowded services – demand analysis,
• Worst performing services – performance team analysis,
• Customer satisfaction by line of route – NCES analysis,
• Stakeholder aspirations (Rail User Groups (RUGs), CRPs, PTEs) and
• Customer complaints.

In addition when developing the DMU deployment plans Northern have accounted for constraints such as:
• Platform lengths,
• Track and station platform capacity,
• Route clearance,
• Available stabling and
• Maintenance cycles (including originating depots).

The results of the analysis and deployment plan are as follows:
• Top 5% crowded services were identified via load factor; this is equivalent to 121 services.
• Of the 121 services, approx. 1/3 of the top 20 and top 50 will see DMU driven capacity improvements.
• Including the capacity increases achieved by the 319 deployment, almost 50% of the top 50 most crowded services will see capacity improvements.

Due to the dis-proportionate number of overcrowded services in the Manchester - Liverpool region the December 2015 redeployment plans have been developed to address this imbalance. As a result, of the 58 overcrowded services in the Manchester - Liverpool region; 19 have been strengthened by the DMU deployment and a further 9 services have been strengthened by the 319 / Loco deployment.

The heavily overcrowded Bolton Corridor has also received further additional capacity. Post Farnworth works, during peak times, there will be approximately 340,000 extra seats a year with 571 additional seats in the AM peak and 732 in the PM peak.

https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...l_rail_service_performance_and_station_issues
 

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northwichcat

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The 07:15 Macclesfield-Piccadilly has been upgraded from 2x142 to a 323

I thought that would be where the 323 released from the Airport shuttle would go in the morning peak. Obviously it can't replace the 142s used on the Crewe to Bolton service.

However, I don't think there's any evening peak service which can easily switch to a 323. The 16:58 Piccadilly-Hazel Grove is part of the same diagram as the 17:58 Stockport-Chester, while the 17:23 Piccadilly-Hazel Grove continues to Chinley.
 

Loop & Link

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And that's all that unit will literally be doing! Off Longsight, Macclesfield-Picc back to Longsight, job done.
 

Thomas6187

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The diagram starting 06:21 Piccadilly-Hazel Grove is now 2x142 instead of a 150. The 150 will have gone somewhere else
 
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