Speed Cameras

[miami]

I don't speed and have a clean license. If no one ever did then the Police and Govt would lose massive amounts of money. Someone said previously in the thread that Bedfordshire police had admitted they needed the revenue from people speeding.

Yes, police funding has changed from being mandatory to optional.

Bedfordshire is a strange one, the budget is £176 per person, compared with Warwickshire (a similar force) at £152 per person, or Cambridgeshire at £157 per head, or Devon and Cornwall (a larger area and more rural, so more expensive) at £155 per person. No wonder they are feeling the brunt of cuts more than others.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh yes nobody on the motorway is going to do more than 70mph, what colour is the sky in your world

I've noticed in the last 5-10 years far more people doing 70 or below on motorways, and far fewer of us doing 80 or more.

It used to be that you'd be often overtaken at 80, it seems far rarer now, despite a fall in trafffic
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28546589

The average mileage for four-wheeled vehicles stood at 7,900 miles (12,700km) in 2013, official figures showed.
This represents a 14% fall from a figure of 9,200 miles in 2002, the first year for which data is available.
Average annual mileage has dipped steadily in the intervening period, with mileage rising only in 2007.

However despite the fall in traffic, more people are being caught speeding

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...our-year-high-due-to-new-digital-cameras.html

More than 115,000 motorists in England and Wales were issued with fines of at least £100 by magistrates last year - the highest level since the Coalition came into power in 2010, according to figures from the Ministry of Justice.

Ultimately with 34 million drivers, there's a maximum of 48 million speeding tickets that can be given each year. Realistically not all those 36 million drivers (including the 1,327 centenarians with a driving license) will be driving very often. 15 million drive to work, so lets assume 20 million regular drivers, which pegs speeding tickets at a maximum of 26 million per year before people get banned.

There's still a long way to go.

If the money wasn't raised from speeders, where should it be raised from?

 

[Antman]

If you think cameras are for raising revenue, don't give them any revenue. If you don't speed, you don't pay any fines.
As I said afterwards:

Just about any police officer will agree that the 70mph limit on motorways is ridiculous and they will not normally take any interest in somebody unless they are doing over 80mph so shouldn't the limit be formally raised to 80mph? Otherwise it just gives the impression that speed limits can be disregarded.

 

[EM2]

Just about any police officer will agree that the 70mph limit on motorways is ridiculous and they will not normally take any interest in somebody unless they are doing over 80mph so shouldn't the limit be formally raised to 80mph? Otherwise it just gives the impression that speed limits can be disregarded.

Well, the Chief Constable of Bedfordshire doesn't seem to agree.
Whether the limit should be raised is immaterial, as it stands it is illegal to drive over 70mph, and if you do, you can't complain if you get caught and fined.

 

[90019]

You can see this in the full video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDXqvoadhsw

I would be very interested to see the footage leading up to what has been posted to YouTube. I would put money on there being more to it than we're being shown.

I'd also like to point out that the horn you hear is not the lorry but the car passing in lane 3.

 

[ExRes]

Just about any police officer will agree that the 70mph limit on motorways is ridiculous and they will not normally take any interest in somebody unless they are doing over 80mph so shouldn't the limit be formally raised to 80mph? Otherwise it just gives the impression that speed limits can be disregarded.

Raise the limit to 80mph and half the driving population will go up to 90mph and start the same argument all over again

 

[miami]

Raise the limit to 80mph and half the driving population will go up to 90mph and start the same argument all over again

By that logic raise the limit to 200mph and everyone will do 220.

If you removed limits, people would settle at a certain speed. While many of us may drive at 85 or 95 like we do in Germany, others will be driving at 50. It's this speed difference that's the problem.

 

[ExRes]

By that logic raise the limit to 200mph and everyone will do 220.

I don't recall mentioning logic ............

 

[tony_mac]

I would be very interested to see the footage leading up to what has been posted to YouTube.

It looks very suspicious to me:- he's deliberately driving in the middle lane at ~50mph (and puts his hazard lights on) which prevents any large vehicle from legally overtaking.
He then appears to be outraged that the vehicle overtakes.
Even after he has been hit, he overtakes the lorry and pulls in front of it again.
It certainly looks to me like he is trying to provoke an incident in order to gather footage of it.

From the lack of damage, I think the HGV was trying to intimidate him rather than actually hit him, but he's just too stubborn to move and avoid the collision.

 

[Antman]

Raise the limit to 80mph and half the driving population will go up to 90mph and start the same argument all over again

No there wouldn't, when speed limits are realistically set the vast majority of drivers have no problem complying
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, the Chief Constable of Bedfordshire doesn't seem to agree.
Whether the limit should be raised is immaterial, as it stands it is illegal to drive over 70mph, and if you do, you can't complain if you get caught and fined.

I suspect the Chief Constable of Bedfordshire is simply highlighting their financial constraints. Many police officers are opposed to speed cameras being used to enforce unrealistic speed limits

 

[EM2]

Many police officers are opposed to speed cameras being used to enforce unrealistic speed limits

Why are they unrealistic? 70mph is about 3000rpm for a modern car, pretty much in the middle of the power band. The car isn't under unnecessary strain and has plenty in reserve if it's needed.
If you increase the speed limit, you increase wear and tear on the car, and also fuel consumption and decrease that available reserve.

 

[Antman]

Why are they unrealistic? 70mph is about 3000rpm for a modern car, pretty much in the middle of the power band. The car isn't under unnecessary strain and has plenty in reserve if it's needed.
If you increase the speed limit, you increase wear and tear on the car, and also fuel consumption and decrease that available reserve.

On a clear motorway most vehicles are doing more than 70mph without any problem at all

 

[tony_mac]

I suspect the Chief Constable of Bedfordshire is simply highlighting their financial constraints. Many police officers are opposed to speed cameras being used to enforce unrealistic speed limits

AFAIK, it's not the Chief Constable - it is the PCC, who is a Labour politician, and I suspect is mostly trying to make a political point regarding the funding of his police force.

 

[ExRes]

No there wouldn't, when speed limits are realistically set the vast majority of drivers have no problem complying

Why is 80 more realistic than 70 ?, a little 1.2 will cruise in excess of 90 without straining itself or the driver while the average family vehicle is capable of 100/110+, why on earth would someone not prepared to obey the 70 limit stick to 80 if the limit was raised ?

 

[Antman]

Why is 80 more realistic than 70 ?, a little 1.2 will cruise in excess of 90 without straining itself or the driver while the average family vehicle is capable of 100/110+, why on earth would someone not prepared to obey the 70 limit stick to 80 if the limit was raised ?

You're just being ridiculous now:roll:

 

[EM2]

On a clear motorway most vehicles are doing more than 70mph without any problem at all

Indeed they are, and my own vehicle will happily stay at over three figures without complaint. However it will, as I say, increase wear and tear and fuel consumption.
But you still haven't said why 70mph is unrealistic. Simply because a lot of vehicles already go faster?

 

[ExRes]

You're just being ridiculous now:roll:

I beg your pardon

How many years have you been driving on motorways ?, are you seriously trying to tell me that the average motorist takes a blind bit of notice of speed limits ?

I've done many years of M25 and M1 driving and dozens of A30/303 miles on top of that and seen constant disregard of any given speed limit, average speed cameras are constantly ignored with the 'drivers' considering that jumping on the brake before the next camera is perfectly acceptable, if you think I'm being ridiculous then perhaps you could tell me which motorways you drive on where everyone behaves so sensibly

 

[tony_mac]

How many years have you been driving on motorways ?, are you seriously trying to tell me that the average motorist takes a blind bit of notice of speed limits ?

46% of cars on the motorway are over the limit, down from 57% in 2003.
11% are over by more than 10 mph, down from 20% in 2003.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/466532/spe0103.xls

(i.e., there are a lot of people between 70-80. Possibly because they know you won't get prosecuted below 79)

In more statistics; M60 average speed cameras were catching an average of 500 people per week (source: MEN). There are an estimated 1.365m vehicles per week on this stretch.
So, that's 99.96% of drivers who do take notice of the average speed cameras.

 

[miami]

motorway speeds dropped as fuel prices went up and people started driving more slowly to save money. They then realised they only save a maximum of 17 minutes per hour by doing 90 rather than 70, but effectivly save £20 an hour in fuel.

 

[fowler9]

Going back to the original point of the thread, everyone can avoid providing revenue to the police/councils etc. by not breaking the speed limit. They would soon stop paying for expensive cameras and lying about the safety reasons if they made no money. Never happen though will it because everyone knows best and is an excellent driver.

 

[tony_mac]

alternatively, some people try to stick to the limits but occasionally make a mistake.

One example I heard of recently:- after many years of being a 40mph limit, a road was re-designated as a 30.
Government guidance says the council should put up a temporary sign regarding the change, but they don't have to. Instead, they spray-painted over the 40s. Because there are street lights, the lack of signage is prefectly legal.
Shortly afterwards, it became a mobile camera spot...

Would you immediately notice a missing speed limit sign on a route you travel every day?
The 50mph signs at the western end of the M62 have been missing for some time, but the authorities don't seem to have noticed!

It's easy to be smug about it if you have never been caught - but who has never made a mistake? How can you be sure?
Even if you get it right 99.9% of the time, that still leaves a few times a year you may get caught.

 

[miami]

When you enter the 30mph zone there would be a sign.

I agree poor form to not have temporary "new speed limit" signs. Have you raised this with your democratically elected council members? Your local press? Having maniacs tearing through 30% above the speed limit killing babies and little kittens is certainly provocation for disquiet.

 

[tony_mac]

When you enter the 30mph zone there would be a sign.

Usually, but they aren't even required when there are street lights.
It wasn't in my area, and I don't have babies or kittens to worry about, so it doesn't really affect me. I think the authorities on Merseyside probably have enough to be getting on with.

 

[Antman]

I beg your pardon

How many years have you been driving on motorways ?, are you seriously trying to tell me that the average motorist takes a blind bit of notice of speed limits ?

I've done many years of M25 and M1 driving and dozens of A30/303 miles on top of that and seen constant disregard of any given speed limit, average speed cameras are constantly ignored with the 'drivers' considering that jumping on the brake before the next camera is perfectly acceptable, if you think I'm being ridiculous then perhaps you could tell me which motorways you drive on where everyone behaves so sensibly

Is there really any point in going over and over the same thing?

Like I said 80mph is the generally accepted speed limit on motorways so why not amend the law accordingly?

 

[ExRes]

Is there really any point in going over and over the same thing?


Like I said 80mph is the generally accepted speed limit on motorways so why not amend the law accordingly?

I apologise profusely, if you say that then who is anyone to disagree with you ?

 

[Antman]

I apologise profusely, if you say that then who is anyone to disagree with you ?

Well unless you have anything new to add..................

 

[90019]

motorway speeds dropped as fuel prices went up and people started driving more slowly to save money. They then realised they only save a maximum of 17 minutes per hour by doing 90 rather than 70, but effectivly save £20 an hour in fuel.

On the drive I do between Edinburgh and Hull, if I do 10mph above the speed limit, it takes four and a half hours or less, if I do 10mph under the limit it takes around five and a half hours which is a pretty significant difference.
The amount of fuel used isn't as drastically different as you might expect.

 

[ExRes]

Well unless you have anything new to add..................

Aren't we just King Pompous today, let's make a deal then, you ignore my boring and pointless rambling and I'll ignore your regular self important musings, fair enough ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like I said 80mph is the generally accepted speed limit on motorways so why not amend the law accordingly?

An awful lot of people of my parents' generation and slightly younger just drive at 10mph over the limit wherever they are. Thus if the limit was 80 they'd probably do 90.

That being the case, it probably makes sense to keep it as at present until Smart Motorways are rolled out to the majority of the motorway network. When that is done, you could then up it to 80, but put 60 on the matrix in poor weather, and switch the cameras on set to 82.

 

[Antman]

Aren't we just King Pompous today, let's make a deal then, you ignore my boring and pointless rambling and I'll ignore your regular self important musings, fair enough ?

Oh for goodness sake, all you've done is repeat the same pointless arguments.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

An awful lot of people of my parents' generation and slightly younger just drive at 10mph over the limit wherever they are. Thus if the limit was 80 they'd probably do 90.

That being the case, it probably makes sense to keep it as at present until Smart Motorways are rolled out to the majority of the motorway network. When that is done, you could then up it to 80, but put 60 on the matrix in poor weather, and switch the cameras on set to 82.

Yes I've heard that argument before but equally when the speed limit is 30mph some will think it is ok to do 40mph, it just puts the thought into peoples minds that its ok to disregard speed limits

 

[Butts]

Well in my view Speeding Offences should either carry a fine or points but not both - that is a double whammy. A bit like being jailed and fined not one or the other.

If it is not about "revenue raising" then the points tally should be increased - three strikes and you are out ?

When the 70mph limit was introduced cars were far less primitive without the modern safety features found on modern saloons. However there are also far more vehicles on the road today.

Notwithstanding this I believe some sections of Motorway could be increased to 100 MPH - perhaps on an experimental or trial basis. If Germany can have unlimited speed on some roads without a hatful of casualties I don't see why we can't at least try.