Two Trains on a Platform Door Policy

[neilb62]

As said it's best to treat the majority as brain-dead. Spoon feed them everything and it's less grief in the end. I recently took a set to the sidings during disruption to find an elderly couple had boarded for London un-noticed after the platform staff had walked through and cleared me to go, the old-boy was purple with rage demanding that I took him to London because 'this is always the London train and IT WILL BE TODAY'.
The box were most impressed when I had to go back to the station to throw them out and he was still raging when we got there...

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not just passengers that get confused. Many years ago at Leeds there were two 156s on the same platform (they may have come in as an ECS then split, I can't remember) one bound for Sheffield & one for York or Selby (again I can't remember, but it was eastbound).

Anyway, the Sheffield bound passengers boarded the train at the western end of the platform, and were greeted shortly afterwards with an announcement that this was the service to Sheffield. However thirty or so seconds later second voice announced that this was the York or Selby service. So in a state of confusion, the passengers all started to detrain to be greeted with the first voice confirming that this was indeed the Sheffield train and that the guard who had made the previous announcement had boarded the wrong train. It gave everyone a bit of a chuckle although I couldn't help but feel a bit sorry for the guard of the York or Selby train who must have felt a bit daft, and doubtless would have got a bit of ribbing from his collegues!

 

[Radedamer]

Why should the situation even occur? To avoid confusion, one train could depart from a non-adjacent platform.

 

[Carntyne]

Why should the situation even occur? To avoid confusion, one train could depart from a non-adjacent platform.

With unlimited platforms at terminus stations, yes. Even then, what is a 6 car unit splits to form 2 separate services?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Just sums up a lot of peoples inattention these days.

Why don't TOCs rip out the WiFi, and make sure that passengers can't get a signal to their phones. This may be one way to gain everyones attention.

 

[sheff1]

I think it's important to remember that rules aren't made for the sensible, well meaning, intelligent people that make up the vast majority (those people would do the sensible thing anyway), they're made for the small minority, who will get on the wrong train and claim it's not their fault.

What 'rules' are these ? At Sheffield it is normal for two trains in the same platform to have the doors open at the same time.

Perhaps it is just that people in Sheffield are intelligent

 

[NSEFAN]

Why don't TOCs rip out the WiFi, and make sure that passengers can't get a signal to their phones. This may be one way to gain everyones attention.

People will probably be more distracted trying to find good phone signal!

 

[87015]

With unlimited platforms at terminus stations, yes. Even then, what is a 6 car unit splits to form 2 separate services?

Its still bad planning practice to have two consequtive departures splitting off, for exactly this reason. Two in three minutes is a built in performance risk to boot.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Just sums up a lot of peoples inattention these days.

I'd put money down that it's not a recent phenomenon.

 

[DerekC]

In the days of slam doors I don't recall any restrictions - there couldn't be. Maybe dwell times were a bit more relaxed and there were more platform staff, though.

 

[Crossover]

I agree with the principle - problem is that of course, if the passenger boards the wrong part, it is never the passengers fault, is it?

I was at Hull a couple of weeks ago and arrived on a 6 car TPE service which was split into 3 to Leeds and 3 remaining on the blocks. The boards all said the usual "Front Train Only" and there were some announcements (though somewhat inaudible on the platform over the noise of two idling 185's and an idling 180 nearby. Of course, loads of people piled onto the "empties" and the guard who had brought it in was getting rather irritated at having to try and get everyone onto the right unit. It obviously got more fun when they locked the whole lot up to separate them then he had to find someone to unlock the rear unit again! At one point, people were getting on at one end quicker than he could turf them off the other.

Likewise at Piccadilly last week, double 220/221 in the platform, rear one locked out of use (positioning move to get it back to the Midlands). Stragglers go banging the door open buttons on the first unit they come to which is locked out of use, before invariably moving down one and trying again. Even though the boards on a Voyager say "Not in Use" it doesn't stop them!

 

[cin88]

Passengers frequently act like complete and utter morons so it comes as no shock that you get some of them boarding the wrong train.

I actually had the reverse problem happen in front of me on Liverpool Lime Street once. Two Northern Sprinters (can't for life of me remember the exact classes) were on a platform, the front one due to go to Wigan, the rear one due to go to Manchester Victoria about 10 or so minutes later (the train I wanted). Right as the guard locked the door for the Wigan bound train, a passenger comes sprinting down the platform trying to board the front train, which had already started to move off as he reached the doors. Cue the inevitable tantrum about "jobsworths not stopping the train" for him and how he's now going to have to wait an hour for the next train to Vic before storming off. People on the platform were too busy laughing to inform him that the train currently stood there with no staff on was for Victoria

 

[bramling]

One very simple answer. Railway staff unfortunately can't trust all passengers to pay attention to the boards about which train is which. The old cliche of "see a train, try and get on it" is very prevalent. The only way to ensure people don't board the wrong service is to not allow them to actually board the wrong train. Unfortunately this has the side affect that passengers who are aware of which train is which are inconvenienced.

Another example of life being organised around the least capable people in society.

 

[causton]

The only way around it, and it would only work at quiet times/stations, would be for the guard to open their local door and people board through that door, whilst the guard confirms what train they want to catch as they get on. Anything else and unfortunately some people cannot handle it, ruining it for the rest of us! Never mind that at some stations I believe (and others, I infer/guess) that the CIS can only display one train per platform...

 

[reb0118]

When I'm the guard of the rear set I open the rear doors with the local switch and stand there checking tickets as passengers board - any for the front set are politely directed to the correct train. I then release the remaining doors when the road comes off for the front train. I rarely experience any problems with this practice.

I like my trains loaded early to sort out any luggage and other problems prior to departure - three minutes is not enough!

As an aside, in general, Glasgow Central seems to keep the doors open with multiple trains on the same platform and use mobile front/rear train boards to differentiate. This was tried at the Waverley but the through winds (sometimes from Siberia) tended to blow the boards away!

 

[Mojo]

lf the platform is really busy, does it actually stop people getting on the wrong train?

l can envisage a situation whereby if there are lots of customers waiting for the 'rear' train, it might not be particularly obvious that the 'front' train is in the platform and waiting for them.

 

[button_boxer]

What 'rules' are these ? At Sheffield it is normal for two trains in the same platform to have the doors open at the same time.

At Sheffield the platforms are all split into A and B either side of the footbridge - you might have one train in 2A and another in 2B at the same time but not two in (say) 5A together.

At St Pancras they have big mobile signs on the platform saying essentially "keep walking for Nottingham train", "Sheffield train beyond this point", etc. which I would hope make it harder (though still by no means impossible) for people to make these sorts of mistakes.

 

[Wolfie]

It is more civilised to board at a terminus with time to select a seat in a relaxed manner, with genuine first-come first-served operating rather than first-barged-on first-served. That's why some of us don't want any LM services to go onto Crossrail (nor for LM to operate Euston with the "scrum" like VT do).

In my experience LM services to Crewe from Euston often only open the doors two or three minutes prior to departure.

 

[nottsnurse]

EMT seem quite good at boarding 2 trains at the same time. On a Saturday morning 2 trains for Nottingham leave within 7 minutes. They manage to board them at the same time. Plenty of on board announcements seems to do the trick.

I was just about to mention EMT and Nottingham Station as seeming to manage quite well with passengees for two services on the same platform, boarding at the same time.

Perhaps railway users in the East Midlands are deemed a little more trustworthy than other areas?

 

[najaB]

Perhaps railway users in the East Midlands are deemed a little more trustworthy than other areas?

Clear A/B signs probably help as well.

 

[sheff1]

At Sheffield the platforms are all split into A and B either side of the footbridge - you might have one train in 2A and another in 2B at the same time but not two in (say) 5A together.

I was talking about the bay platforms 3 & 4. However although they are quite short they, too, are split into A & B. Thinking about it, that may actually be the answer to the apparent problems eleswhere as I have never noticed any great issue with people boarding the wrong train in the Sheffield bays.

 

[Minilad]

Likewise at Piccadilly last week, double 220/221 in the platform, rear one locked out of use (positioning move to get it back to the Midlands). Stragglers go banging the door open buttons on the first unit they come to which is locked out of use, before invariably moving down one and trying again. Even though the boards on a Voyager say "Not in Use" it doesn't stop them!

That didn't happen to be Thursday 19/11 did it
221136 and 220001
If so I was driving it!!

We also get this at Cardiff when we pull on to platform 1 with the 2105 to Birmingham. The 2100 to Westbury is already in the platform with doors open. I can only imagine the amount of people that would get on ours to go to Bristol and further if we opened the doors as well.
So in the main it is done to protect certain people from their own inattentiveness

 

[nottsnurse]

Clear A/B signs probably help as well.

Have you travelled on the early services from Nottingham? With many units shunted onto platforms from the depot first thing you end up with two or three services leaving A or B, not one service on A/one on B (as is usual during the off-peak hours).

If I choose to take the stopping service to Leicester rather than the fast then it's usually sharing the B end of the platform with a Worksop service and (I think) a Mansfield service.

 

[northwichcat]

Why should the situation even occur? To avoid confusion, one train could depart from a non-adjacent platform.

In the evenings a Northern ECS goes in to one platform at Manchester Piccadilly and the trains are split up so that there are 3 separate trains with 3 different final destinations from the same platform. I think there would be issues if Northern tried to send 3 different ECS movements in to 3 different platforms at around the same time.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Have you travelled on the early services from Nottingham? With many units shunted onto platforms from the depot first thing you end up with two or three services leaving A or B, not one service on A/one on B (as is usual during the off-peak hours).

If I choose to take the stopping service to Leicester rather than the fast then it's usually sharing the B end of the platform with a Worksop service and (I think) a Mansfield service.

Yeah, same problem at New Street, in the early evening you used to have services for Walsall, Shrewsbury and Rugeley all on the same platform. The platform split A/B, but there are three services. I'm not sure if this happens anymore, I think it's just the Shrewsbury/Rugeley split, but it was this way for some time.

 

[PHILIPE]

Penzance at start of service can have units lined up in Platform 3. On a Sunday during the Summer there was a line up :-

150 for Falmouth
2x150 for StIves
153+150 for 12 05 to Exeter.

 

[RPM]

This happens commonly at Marylebone with two or even three trains stacked up on a platform. I can tell you, the number of passengers who try to open the doors on the closed up trains is incredible. If they were left open I'd estimate 20 to 50 passengers a day would get on the wrong train and if just 1 or 2 of them reacted to being on the wrong train by pulling a pass-com then there would be serious daily service disruption. The poor old dispatchers have enough trouble from angry people who've missed their train as it is. If you added in all the additional ones caused by train doors being left open, I think they'd all resign

 

[scotraildriver]

I regularly work the 17.05 Edinburgh to Dunblane service. It leaves from the rear of platform15. In front is the 17.00 Edinburgh to Dundee. I can absolutely guartantee that if I open the doors prior to the departure of the Dundee my train will be full of people on the wrong train. It has happened too many times and the abuse I have received is quite appalling, including being spat on at Edinburgh Park. People quite simply do not rear the front/rear train notices. Whilst I appreciate standing in the cold is not ideal at least everyone gets home on the right train and the staff do not have to deal with disgusting abuse.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

This happens commonly at Marylebone with two or even three trains stacked up on a platform. I can tell you, the number of passengers who try to open the doors on the closed up trains is incredible. If they were left open I'd estimate 20 to 50 passengers a day would get on the wrong train and if just 1 or 2 of them reacted to being on the wrong train by pulling a pass-com then there would be serious daily service disruption. The poor old dispatchers have enough trouble from angry people who've missed their train as it is. If you added in all the additional ones caused by train doors being left open, I think they'd all resign

Dispatcher - "No, no, no you want the next train along the platform!"

(passenger walks about ten yards and blindly jabs at the next door on the same carriage)

 

[47271]

I regularly work the 17.05 Edinburgh to Dunblane service. It leaves from the rear of platform15. In front is the 17.00 Edinburgh to Dundee. I can absolutely guartantee that if I open the doors prior to the departure of the Dundee my train will be full of people on the wrong train. It has happened too many times and the abuse I have received is quite appalling, including being spat on at Edinburgh Park. People quite simply do not rear the front/rear train notices. Whilst I appreciate standing in the cold is not ideal at least everyone gets home on the right train and the staff do not have to deal with disgusting abuse.

Likewise platform 16 half an hour later is a bad situation, but this is made worse by setting off two long distance services in succession: the 1737 to Aberdeen followed by the 1740 to Inverness. The Inverness train sits in darkness with seat reservations laid out from around 1715 most nights, so we're not dealing with a massively tight turnaround in this case.

I understand why the rear unit generally needs to be kept shut, and I accept most of what has been said on here about the idiotic behaviour of many regular passengers. If they do this night after night then they deserve to be taken to the wrong part of the country.

But we also have to consider that the sort of occasional traveller going from Edinburgh to Inverness with loads of luggage, getting to the station early and fretting about their seat reservation, will be upset by the sight of their train locked, dark and surrounded by sharp elbowed Kirkcaldy commuters until three minutes before departure. Or they lose the plot and get on the wrong train by mistake. I see both happen again and again.

I appreciate that Waverley in the evening peak will be a very difficult place to ease this type of situation, but it strikes me that giving some thought in planning to longer boarding times for longer distance services, and not firing the trains out of the platform two minutes apart, would help reduce discussion and confusion!