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Paris terrorist attacks this evening 13/11/15

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Jonny

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The security correspondents for various news agencies have been saying this kind of atrocity was possible since the migrant crisis started. Now I am not trying to turn this into an argument against the EU and migrants but they have repeatedly saying that we simply do not know who these people are who are entering the EU. Once they are into the Schengen Area they can go whenever they want to really. I really feel for the victims and their families. Answers need to be sought as to whether these militants are getting in posing as refugees.

The issue is that any refugees need to be properly vetted, including making sure that they are genuine refugees (rather than just migrants). This means that they would have to give a good answer to why they weren't safe in Turkey. The vast majority probably couldn't give such an answer, as they were perfectly safe in Turkey. The sheer volume of migrants makes that vetting difficult.

I also understand that at least two terrorists were intercepted from among the migrants prior to yesterday.
 
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WestCoast

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Reuters now reporting that sources close to the investigation are saying that a Syrian passport has been found close to one of the bodies of a deceased attacker.

One speculates that some of the attackers in this case may not have been EU nationals, which is different to many attacks that we have previously seen.
 

Jonny

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meridian2

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July 7th 2005 were from Leeds
2012 Toulose attacker was French
Jan 9th 2015 Charlie Hebbo from Paris
2011 Norway was Norwegian
2012 Brussels shooting was French
The 2015 train attack was a Spanish resident, although the only perpetrator on this list born outside the EU (and Norway)

But I'm sure this time it's illegal immigration to blame. Beat the same drum enough times and you may end up being right.

97% of America thought the 9/11 hijackers were from Afghanistan or Iraq, rather than from a US ally with legal status in the country.

Fear leads to Anger
anger leads to Hate
Hate leads to suffering.

This is on a different scale to the above and was well planned, co-ordinated and executed. Now whether the attackers themselves were indeed posing as refugees cannot be anything more than speculation at this stage as the forensic investigations are still ongoing, and any conversation or discussions linked to the migrant crisis are unhelpful at this stage.
What we are dealing with is a group who want to bring the Syrian war to Europe; who feel that it is a case of an eye-for-an-eye. If innocent men, women and children who are not in the army are being targeted by US/Coalition drones in Syria, then they feel that the only method for retribution is to target men,women and children in Western countries who are not attached to anything remotely military. It is as clear-cut as that, and the only way to get rid of this evil is if the respective communities, for whom ISIL are using a warped version of, do more to out extremism and the pull of Western men and women to fight in Syria.
This isn't about the EU or the lack of any preparation to handle the extra-number of resources due to open borders. This is about ISIL,and removing the desire for people here to fight in Syria.Only then can we finally combat the root causes and not deal with just the branches and stems, which we have seen time after time, their devastating consequences if left to sprout.
 

Dave1987

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But I'm sure this time it's illegal immigration to blame. Beat the same drum enough times and you may end up being right.

Er I believe this is the first time I've ever commented on this and I appears that at least one of the attackers was from outside the EU. :roll:

Wonder what your response to the families of the victims would be on this!
 

miami

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Reuters now reporting that sources close to the investigation are saying that a Syrian passport has been found close to one of the bodies of a deceased attacker.

One speculates that some of the attackers in this case may not have been EU nationals, which is different to many attacks that we have previously seen.

One could speculate that. One could equally wonder about why someone going to their deaths has a Syrian passport on them. One could also see just how easy it is to buy forged eu passports if you have the money, so why bother immigrating illegally?

You can also get Syrian passports easily, handy if you wanted to spread fear anger and suffering by pretending to be Syrian http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34150408
 

dcsprior

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Yesterday's attacks were truly terrible; I can't describe the attackers in words that wouldn't see my post deleted.

I wonder what the residents of the Calais area now feel about having so many unknown people encamped within the environs of that town.

I expect some of them are nervous that there may be a few terrorists hiding amongst the refugees.

However I'd hope that this would be outweighed by the realisation that the refugees are trying to get away from atrocities committed by the same outfit that has claimed responsibility for yesterday's Paris attacks.
 

Saint66

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The sorts of attacks in Paris are the sorts of attacks that immigrants from the likes of Syria etc, are trying to escape. Over 200,000 are estimated to have been killed in Syria since the outbreak of conflict some four years ago.
 

Johnuk123

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One of the suicide bombers was 15 and one was a woman according to LBC.
 

Domh245

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Also reports that one of the attackers at the Bataclan concert hall was a French national, supposedly known to French security services
 

kermit

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You need to read the words that I wrote, which were carefully phrased. How do you feel that the phrase "so many unknown people" conveys anything but a statement of fact. Yet you feel it is, to use your words, "baseless, poisonous and inflammatory". Are all these people in the environs of Calais "known" with passports that can be checked?

As for the fact that you state that I know little or nothing about these people gives my intelligence and cognitive reasoning ability no credit whatsoever. Unless you are privy to surveillance monitoring on my research abilities, how on earth can you make such a statement. I can assure you that I have monitored the situation in the Calais area for very many months and before you then further malign my character on this thread, I will state that the usual accusation of only reading and believing press summations cannot be applied to me.

Your entirely predictable hot denial (and if you check the precise wording of my post, you will see that in parody of your "carefully phrased" post, I have made no comment at all about you) is made all the more tragic by the following quote from that bastion of woolly liberalism, the Daily Mail;

A huge fire broke out shortly after midnight at the refugee camp known as the 'Jungle' in Calais, France.

The fire is not thought to be related to the horrific terror events in Paris despite unsubstantiated claims that the fire was started by activists angered by the migrants presence in France.

No casualties have been reported from the site, where hundreds of migrants have been living in difficult conditions after making their long and dangerous journey to Europe.

Over 2,500 metres of tents and shelters were burnt down in the fierce blaze which was believed to have been caused by an electrical wire.

Let's hope it was a dreadfully coincidental accident, not the action of anyone misled by their erroneous interpretation of the sort of "careful phrases" you chose to use.

Please don't play with fire.
 

Johnuk123

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Wonder if the train derailment at Strasbourg with 5 deaths could be connected.
Doubt it but only time will tell.
 

Metrailway

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From the BBC:

Syrian passport holder passed through Greece - minister

A Greek government minister says the holder of a Syrian passport found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October.

Deputy public order minister Nikos Toskas, said in a statement: "On the case of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the terrorist attack, we announce that the passport holder passed from Leros on October 3 where he was identified based on EU rules, as decided at the Summit on the refugee issue.

We do not know if the passport was checked by other countries through which the holder likely passed. We will continue the painstaking and persistent effort to ensure the security of our country and Europe under difficult circumstances, insisting on complete identification of those arriving.''
 

ainsworth74

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Okay, the migrant crisis might be relevant to the discussion of the Paris Attacks. However I've had to delete the posts about it so far as the tone in which they were being posted was most certainly against our Forum Rules.

If people do wish to discuss the relevance or otherwise of the migrant crisis to the attacks then they are welcome to do so but we expect that you do so in good faith and whilst following the Forum Rules specifically:

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RichmondCommu

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Er I believe this is the first time I've ever commented on this and I appears that at least one of the attackers was from outside the EU. :roll:

Wonder what your response to the families of the victims would be on this!

My son was in the Stade du France last night and to be honest I couldn't give a rat's ass where these attackers are from. Not only that but as a Londoner of many years I seem to remember feeling the same about the July bombers.
 

backontrack

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Okay, the migrant crisis might be relevant to the discussion of the Paris Attacks. However I've had to delete the posts about it so far as the tone in which they were being posted was most certainly against our Forum Rules.

If people do wish to discuss the relevance or otherwise of the migrant crisis to the attacks then they are welcome to do so but we expect that you do so in good faith and whilst following the Forum Rules specifically:

Thank you for this.

England's football team will still play France on Tuesday.

But there may be more to come.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34823466

Libya IS head 'killed in US air strike'
(4 minutes ago)
A US air strike has killed the leader of the Islamic State (IS) group in Libya, the Pentagon says.
Iraqi national Abu Nabil, also known as Wissam Najm Abd Zayd al-Zubaydi, was a "long-time al-Qaeda operative and the senior Isil leader in Libya", it said, using another acronym for IS.
The strike took place on Friday night. There was no word on the location.
The Pentagon said the strike demonstrated that it would "go after Isil leaders wherever they operate".
'Degrading IS'
Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said...
 
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Johnuk123

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Poland becomes the first of probably a few more countries to refuse to accept migrants, at least without "security guarantees" which of course is impossible.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/14/poland-tells-eu-no-more-migrants-without-security-assurances.html

Poland cannot accept migrants relocated under a European Union quota system after the attacks in Paris without security guarantees, its incoming European affairs minister said on Saturday, in a sign that the attacks may seriously undermine EU refugee policy.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Of course that plays into the hands of the militants - more propaganda they can use to convince the gullible that the Western states are anti-Muslim. More chaos and confusion through which militants can sneak.

Even if one of those involved in the attack came in via Greece, he couldn't have brought weapons with him via that route, someone else has sourced those from within Europe - that is the first thing they need to stomp out - three major attacks in France this year with automatic weapons, they must be getting them from somewhere.
 

DaveNewcastle

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What disappoints me about all this is the sudden sense of outrage prompted by the media when ISIL's month long campaign gets a bit closer to dear old England. What happened to the news about the previous day's attack in Beiruit? (Which surely would have been much worse if one of the bombers hadn't been brought down by Adel Termos at the cost of his own life), and the p*ss-poor coverage of the incursion into Ankara targetting a Kurdish rally, a wave of attacks south of the Med, and the Russian plane brought down over the Sinai. I see one commentator here has made the connection:
That's surpassed the Turkey attacks, but these numbers seem to crop up in Africa and the middle east every month.
It's depressing that UK media won't report this as a coordinated campaign and a war, which is what I understand it to be. We've tried to ignore or deny how much we are hated in the past (a prime example is Ulster), and without much success. Why would any agressor respond to being ignored or misunderstood in any way other than trying harder?
All attackers are now believed to be dead.
Yes. That's how warfare works when your MO is to sacrifice your own life for your cause. Your quote reminds me of the comedy story, whose joke is in the title : "The Kamikazi pilots' reunion dinner". It's equivalent to, and as revealling as, stating that 'all munitions are now believed to have been fired'.

This is on a different scale to the above and was well planned, co-ordinated and executed.
I would want to say much the same for the other attacks in the month's campaign too. Let's not assume that the Paris attack on 'death metal' and football means that the campaign is over!
This isn't about the EU or the lack of any preparation to handle the extra-number of resources due to open borders. This is about ISIL,and removing the desire for people here to fight in Syria.Only then can we finally combat the root causes and not deal with just the branches and stems, which we have seen time after time, their devastating consequences if left to sprout.
I think this is a well-informed analysis; though lacking a grasp of the purpose and intention of ISIL/ISIS and its beliefs; beliefs and logic that are well enough understood by its front line to commit so many of them to sacrifice their own lives to further that understanding. What I'm not hearing is any intelligent debate which grasps the principles of ISIL - just the condemnation, demonisation, shock and anger. Nothing about the underlying principles, whose intensity of conviction will encourage a committed person to want to sacrifice thier own life. (I discount the 'propaganda' stories that their troups are all coerced, persuaded or otherwise encouraged to die without a sincere committment.

This war won't end before we understand it.

It's the understanding by us Europeans that is at the heart of the conflict. The muslim campaign #NotInMyName is, I'm sure, helpful to many who might feel wrongly criticised, but where is the informed explanation of why we europeans are such deserving targets of other people's own sacrificial death?
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Of course that plays into the hands of the militants - more propaganda they can use to convince the gullible that the Western states are anti-Muslim.

In the area where Islam holds sway, I put this to you that it is claimed by certain Imams that Muslims should wish to be in an area where their religion is that of the states concerned.

That being the case put forward, why the need to gravitate to non-Muslim countries in Europe?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Your entirely predictable hot denial (and if you check the precise wording of my post, you will see that in parody of your "carefully phrased" post, I have made no comment at all about you) is made all the more tragic by the following quote from that bastion of woolly liberalism, the Daily Mail.

Please don't play with fire.

I am not often in the habit of repeating myself, but it appears that unfortunately, I need to do so in your case. The final sentence in my posting said the following:-
"I will state that the usual accusation of only reading and believing press summations cannot be applied to me"

Yet it is you who choose to then quote an extract from the Daily Mail, a paper that I have never subscribed to, nor are ever likely to do so. Still, if you feel heartened by being able to reveal that particular newspaper's message, then so be it. But do not involve me in such puerile and supercilious subterfuge.
 

Antman

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My daughter and her partner are off to Paris today for a few days, they planned it months ago and are quite determined to still go because otherwise the terrorists have won.
 

Robertj21a

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My daughter and her partner are off to Paris today for a few days, they planned it months ago and are quite determined to still go because otherwise the terrorists have won.

Quite right too, well done to them. I have done likewise in a couple of similar situations and would hope that everyone will still do whatever they wish to do - wherever and whenever. Many of our own families fought hard to give us a free country and it's up to all of us to ensure that their sacrifices weren't in vain.
 

Antman

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Quite right too, well done to them. I have done likewise in a couple of similar situations and would hope that everyone will still do whatever they wish to do - wherever and whenever. Many of our own families fought hard to give us a free country and it's up to all of us to ensure that their sacrifices weren't in vain.

Absolutely, in fact I wish I was going with them, although they might not be too keen on that idea;)

The best way to stick two fingers up to terrorists is to carry on regardless, I'm delighted that next weeks England v France game is going ahead and I hope there is no silly talk about moving Euro 2016 to another country.
 

Bungle965

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Absolutely, in fact I wish I was going with them, although they might not be too keen on that idea;)

The best way to stick two fingers up to terrorists is to carry on regardless, I'm delighted that next weeks England v France game is going ahead and I hope there is no silly talk about moving Euro 2016 to another country.
I`m also very glad of that, but it would be completely silly to postpone Euro 2016. In fact it should be used a show of solidarity, of not letting terrorists win.
Sam
 
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