Ealing Broadway Duty Station Manager contact details

[Wolfie]

Watching the "officers" at EB yesterday, they completely ignored two massive guys that dropped their fags as they walked off. Moments later the officers collared a timid short female who dropped a filter-less roll up

To be fair, all three of the parties had littered but as a (recent) non smoker I would rather that the council was trying to catch serious offenders.
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Valid points, but there is only one entrance to EB station. There are 4 retail outlets in the station that offer food, surely that in itself should be grounds for providing a bin? Should the LA be expected to provide bins for GWR customers?

GWR have (mobile) litter bins... they are called 165s and 166s!

Does anyone defending these firms drive? do they think that if your car sticks out of a parking bay by one inch that it is appropriate for you to be given a £80 fine without a discount for prompt payment and the opportunity to go to arbitration?

The independent parking appeal tribunals have regularly ruled such offences de minimis and cancelled any such fines.

I'm certainly of the view that people should be penalised for parking over the lines, yes; like littering it is lazy behaviour that impacts unduly on the convenience of others.

Sadly for you the bodies with the power to take a view beg to differ.

 

[Bevan Price]

I don't smoke, and I have not been to Ealing for many years - but a question - do these private goons have the right to demand your identity ? What happens if you refuse, and resist any attempts they might make to assault you ?

 

[hungover]

I don't smoke, and I have not been to Ealing for many years - but a question - do these private goons have the right to demand your identity ? What happens if you refuse, and resist any attempts they might make to assault you ?

You are legally obliged to provide them with your name and address. Failure to do so is an offence. Providing false information is an offence. They are not legally entitled to ask you for ID, but in the majority of cases they will ask, doing so reduces the need to phone through and ask for a cross reference of the electoral list.

There have been reports of people just ignoring them and walking through the ticket barriers. In reality, BT police could be called but I doubt that they would prioritise such calls.

Ultimately, you are being accused of a criminal act. Paying the Fixed Penalty Notice discharges the offence. If you refuse to pay and end up being found guilty in court you end up with a criminal record and typically a fine of £400-500 (for more "trivial" litter.

There is no legal requirement to offer an independent appeals process (nor is there any requirement to allow car drivers an appeals process). Pay up or go to court. That said, if you pay a solicitor to send representations to the council you may well find that the council will back down in cases where they know that no offence has been committed. This is especially true given that the council only stand to make £20 and could end up hundreds of pounds out of pocket if they go to court and lose. Unfortunately most people collared by these private outfits will probably pay up, even if they genuinely believe that they have not committed an offence. In many cases a solicitor's letter may cost more than the "fine" though.

Examples of trivial crimes that might well be kicked out by the courts? Sitting on a park bench, noticing a newspaper next to you, picking it up, deciding that you don't want to read it and putting it back where you found it. Kicking llitter left on the pavement out of the way. Something falling out of your pocket as you walk along. Feeding wildlife. Footballers spitting on the pitch during a game. Marathon runners dropping plastic cups at water stations. Cars losing a trim whilst in transit. Accidentally leaving your umbrella before getting on a train . Allowing leaves to fall on to the footpath whilst triming your garden hedge. All of which are technically offences under the 1990 Environmental Protection Act ( and subsequent amendments). I doubt very much that anyone other than a "no win but we get paid anyway" organisation would be quite that pedantic.

Ironically, Ealing Council are not responsible for cleaning the land managed by GWR. Ealing Council however have to pay the private security firm £60 for every £80 FPN handed out, even though many of those fines will not be paid (appeals/foreign nationals/ etc).
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The independent parking appeal tribunals have regularly ruled such offences de minimis and cancelled any such fines.

Councils are not legally obliged to offer tribunals in the cases of parking infractions. Nor do they legally have to accept the decisions of the tribunals.

They tend to though because they are afraid of the potential public backlash.

Regarding litter, it is a far more emotive subject, particularly with regard to smoking related litter, as has been evidenced by some of the comments here. They, the councils, seem to hope that the lay person will assume that anyone accused of littering is a miscreant who deserves to be punished. Their (potential) innocence is irrelevant.

Thin edge of the wedge stuff....

 

[Butts]

People are going to love this thats why I have hidden it away on the "backwater" of the Infrastrucure and Stations section....

At least I am going to confess that I got a Fixed Penalty Notice for putting a butt on the deck outside Newcastle Central Station yesterday morning.

I got off the train after travelling down from the 0542 from Falkirk and by 8am was gagging for a snout. I went right outside the front of the Station where in a slight plea of mitigation there are no bins or "butt depositers" on the wall. I enjoyed my £75 Benson and Hedges and decided to go back in to catch the Metro.

On going back in I was accosted by a "goon" who demanded my details and filmed my responses with a bodycam. I don't even know how they spotted me - CCTV?
It did cross my mind to either ignore him or give a false name and address. However I had noticed a few BTP officers in the Station who may have been callled to assist him.

The galling thing is that you don't even get a discount for paying early as with a parking ticket.There is no right of appeal either apart from going to Court where the penalty could be even higher along with a Criminal Record.

However I have done this hundreds of times before when there have been no bins about - you pay your money and take your chance.

 

[Phil.]

If organisations don't want you to drop litter in the shape of cigarette butts there is an easy solution. Provide some cigarette disposal bins. The original post mentioned lack of bins. It's easy for a smarmy self-righteous prig to say take it home and indeed for bottles, cans, sweet wrappers etc it is. Cigarette butts - I speak as a non-smoker - are different. How do you put a hot glowing ember into your pocket? Dozens of offices etc have cigarette butt disposal bins outside, why should/is a railway station any different? If councils want to employ knuckle draggers to enforce laws I would suggest that they start with dog owners (I have a dog ) who let their mutts crap everywhere and leave it there for people to tread in. That's far more unsightly - and unhygienic- than a few cigarette butts.

 

[Butts]

If organisations don't want you to drop litter in the shape of cigarette butts there is an easy solution. Provide some cigarette disposal bins. The original post mentioned lack of bins. It's easy for a smarmy self-righteous prig to say take it home and indeed for bottles, cans, sweet wrappers etc it is. Cigarette butts - I speak as a non-smoker - are different. How do you put a hot glowing ember into your pocket? Dozens of offices etc have cigarette butt disposal bins outside, why should/is a railway station any different? If councils want to employ knuckle draggers to enforce laws I would suggest that they start with dog owners (I have a dog ) who let their mutts crap everywhere and leave it there for people to tread in. That's far more unsightly - and unhygienic- than a few cigarette butts.

If there are no bins available I normally try and put the butt down a drain so it does not litter the highway. The worst aspect in my view is that the penalty is disproportionate to the offence - easy money.

Now people have been forced outside even "open areas" to have a tab they are an easy target.

Perhaps the government should allocate some of the huge profit they make from smoking (even taking into account NHS costs) to provide tab bins in areas where people are likely to congregate for a cigarette.

 

[Phil.]

If there are no bins available I normally try and put the butt down a drain so it does not litter the highway. The worst aspect in my view is that the penalty is disproportionate to the offence - easy money.

Now people have been forced outside even "open areas" to have a tab they are an easy target.

Perhaps the government should allocate some of the huge profit they make from smoking (even taking into account NHS costs) to provide tab bins in areas where people are likely to congregate for a cigarette.

Oh sure, contribute to blocking the drains why don't you?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My thought exactly. Carry a container to put them in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Butts]

Oh sure, contribute to blocking the drains why don't you?

I think it would take thousands of dog ends to block a drain
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My thought exactly. Carry a container to put them in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ex smoker almost certainly.... - own up !!

 

[nottsnurse]

If organisations don't want you to drop litter in the shape of cigarette butts there is an easy solution. Provide some cigarette disposal bins....

Its not as simple a solution as that.

The NHS Trust I work for provides cigarette bins on the walls outside the hospital sites but they are regularly broken open by homeless people etc looking for dog ends to smoke/break up to put in a roll up.

Most Saturday mornings when I arrive at the hospital there are one or two smashed, with their unwanted contents strewn across the path .

As for people who state "it's not always easy to carry rubbish with you until you find a bin", absolute trot. As a mountain biker it always annoys me when I see ramblers/other mountain bikers who have thrown rubbish into the hedge rows etc. If you can carry it in you can carry it out, and that goes more so for in town, when the next available bin isn't going to be too far away.

 

[Butts]

Its not as simple a solution as that.

The NHS Trust I work for provides cigarette bins on the walls outside the hospital sites but they are regularly broken open by homeless people etc looking for dog ends to smoke/break up to put in a roll up.

Most Saturday mornings when I arrive at the hospital there are one or two smashed, with their unwanted contents strewn across the path .

As for people who state "it's not always easy to carry rubbish with you until you find a bin", absolute trot. As a mountain biker it always annoys me when I see ramblers/other mountain bikers who have thrown rubbish into the hedge rows etc. If you can carry it in you can carry it out, and that goes more so for in town, when the next available bin isn't going to be too far away.

If the Trust provided a smoking shelter within the grounds it is unlikely that the behaviour you refer to would take place. You can bet your bottom dollar none of the culprits ever receive a fixed penalty

 

[Martin66]

My thought exactly. Carry a container to put them in.

Could they not use one of these? Cheaper than a fine

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-STUBBI-POCKET-ASHTRAYS-PORTABLE-POUCHES-For-Cigarettes-/272396651259

 

[sheff1]

Then take it home Or you'll probably find bins in the street outside the station.

Or take the the advice of an Authorised Person . At Manchester Piccadilly, there was no obvious sign of any bins so I asked a BTP officer where I could find one. "Just drop it down there" he said "the cleaners will pick it up".

 

[Darandio]

Now people have been forced outside even "open areas" to have a tab they are an easy target.

Before they modernised the area outside of the main entrance, they did provide two bins, both with the separate cigaratte container at the top.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.9...hZrEXJgw!2e0!5s20140801T000000!7i13312!8i6656

 

[AnonymousUser1]

If anybody is determined to place a bomb on a station they will do it, bins or no bins. This sort of action sends a message that they've got us alarmed.

the issue related to IEDs and bins is primarily about the lovely cast iron bins that have been a feature of many streetscape designs in the past 30 or so years ... they make a lovely fragmentation 'shell' for an IED meaning you don;t have to pack the IED with nails , scrap etc ...

hence the reason the bins on stations where provided are usually just 'bag holder' loops ... bin bags are pretty crap at holding IEDs and even worse at mmultipilcation of damage and threat to life.
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If the Trust provided a smoking shelter within the grounds it is unlikely that the behaviour you refer to would take place. You can bet your bottom dollar none of the culprits ever receive a fixed penalty

so you want the NHS to divert funding from patient care to provide for the anti social behaviour of visitors ?

 

[Butts]

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so you want the NHS to divert funding from patient care to provide for the anti social behaviour of visitors ?

There would have been no need as most Hospitals already had some sort of shelter prior to turfing smokers completely off the grounds. It may suprise you to find out when I worked in a Hospital outside A&E was a favourite haunt for Doctors , Nurses and Ambulance crews popping out for a burn alongside patients.

 

[Llanigraham]

People are going to love this thats why I have hidden it away on the "backwater" of the Infrastrucure and Stations section....

At least I am going to confess that I got a Fixed Penalty Notice for putting a butt on the deck outside Newcastle Central Station yesterday morning.

I got off the train after travelling down from the 0542 from Falkirk and by 8am was gagging for a snout. I went right outside the front of the Station where in a slight plea of mitigation there are no bins or "butt depositers" on the wall. I enjoyed my £75 Benson and Hedges and decided to go back in to catch the Metro.

On going back in I was accosted by a "goon" who demanded my details and filmed my responses with a bodycam. I don't even know how they spotted me - CCTV?
It did cross my mind to either ignore him or give a false name and address. However I had noticed a few BTP officers in the Station who may have been callled to assist him.

The galling thing is that you don't even get a discount for paying early as with a parking ticket.There is no right of appeal either apart from going to Court where the penalty could be even higher along with a Criminal Record.

However I have done this hundreds of times before when there have been no bins about - you pay your money and take your chance.

Tough, sunshine!
You dropped litter, which is illegal.
You could have quite easily held onto your butt and waited until you got to a bin and put it in there.
Get over it.

 

[Butts]

Tough, sunshine!
You dropped litter, which is illegal.
You could have quite easily held onto your butt and waited until you got to a bin and put it in there.
Get over it.

Thanks for your empathy.....I'm quite moved

 

[Deepgreen]

It is exactly as simple as some have suggested. Do not drop litter and you will not be fined. The same goes for that other perennial so-called 'money-making' exercise - traffic and parking fines. Don't speed or break traffic laws in other ways and you won't be penalised - very simple. Ignorance is no excuse, and doesn't hold up in law. There's far too much bleating about being caught breaking the law being unfair - exemplified by those who insist on speed cameras being painted bright yellow and being signed from half a mile away, otherwise they're 'not fair!'. What will we have next - CCTV cameras deemed to be outwith the scope of criminal evidence in, say, a murder case unless they are clearly identified with signs and fluorescent paint to warn the murderers that they need to take care?!

So; saying, for example, that "there were no bins" won't wash - take your litter home or to somewhere with a bin, rather than treat the privilege of the 'throw-away society' with all its excessive and wasteful packaging as a right.


There, that's better!
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I am not defending littering.

Apropos acceptability, do you realise that if a fiver falls out of your pocket whilst you are walking along you have littered (assuming that you hadn't noticed and continued walking, thereby leaving it)?

DEFRA suggest that environment protection officers give the "offender" the opportunity to pick up the "litter" but not all private security firms adhere to their suggestions.
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Yep- those lonely old ladies that feed bread to ducks should be locked up and the keys thrown away. And those marathon runners that take a swig of water, spit it out and then drop their bottles of water. The footballers who spit on the pitch mid game. The person on the park bench who picks up the discarded newspaper next to them, decides not to read and puts it back.

Each of the above are guilty of committing a crime IF the law is interpreted in the strictest sense.

You really think these two can be equated do you? Dropping a plastic bottle is littering in the simplest and most obvious sense (and, away from marathons, all too pervasive a form of littering) - how does it need the law to be "interpreted in the strictest sense"? However, during marathons, I imagine that there are designated areas where dropping bottles is permitted because another body will have assumed responsibility for clearing up the bottles, rather than the intention being to abandon them.

 

[Butts]

It is exactly as simple as some have suggested. Do not drop litter and you will not be fined. The same goes for that other perennial so-called 'money-making' exercise - traffic and parking fines. Don't speed or break traffic laws in other ways and you won't be penalised - very simple. Ignorance is no excuse, and doesn't hold up in law. There's far too much bleating about being caught breaking the law being unfair - exemplified by those who insist on speed cameras being painted bright yellow and being signed from half a mile away, otherwise they're 'not fair!'. What will we have next - CCTV cameras deemed to be outwith the scope of criminal evidence in, say, a murder case unless they are clearly identified with signs and fluorescent paint to warn the murderers that they need to take care?!

So; saying, for example, that "there were no bins" won't wash - take your litter home or to somewhere with a bin, rather than treat the privilege of the 'throw-away society' with all its excessive and wasteful packaging as a right.


There, that's better!

Thanks "Holy Joe"

I paid my money (after I took my chance) - £75

The amount does seem a bit excessive for dropping one fag butt and there is no reduction for early payment or right of appeal other than going to Court.

Coupled with the fact the private contractor gets more of the money than the Council is a little annoying to say the least. I wonder how many of them are out on duty on a Friday night when all the drunks are disposing of bottles and take away wrappers all over the City Centre.

Just a thought if one of the drunks were to decorate the pavement with "purple rain" would that count as litter?

 

[Darandio]

The cynic in me is still trying to think of a sound reason why the two bins (on the street outside, nothing to do with the railway) were removed and no matter how hard I try, I cannot help but think they were removed for precisely this reason, to dish out fines.

Saying that, I believe they actually installed new ones 100 yards to the left at the end of the facade arches, and there might even be a cigarette bin as well, I cannot remember.

 

[Master29]

Sound like another cash cow. Unless they are employed by local authorities as private firms I am not sure how much power they have to enforce this. Open spaces can mean anything. This sounds a bit like private parking companies who have virtually no authority whatsoever.

 

[Antman]

Sound like another cash cow. Unless they are employed by local authorities as private firms I am not sure how much power they have to enforce this. Open spaces can mean anything. This sounds a bit like private parking companies who have virtually no authority whatsoever.

Exactly and it can only be a matter of time before the whole thing is outlawed just like wheelclamping was.

Somebody was telling me just the other day that in Maidstone the council have suspended their contractors after a string of complaints about their over zealous attitude, the final straw it seems was issuing a ticket to a lady feeding the ducks on the river towpath.

I don't condone littering but two wrongs don't make a right and I think any sort of law enforcement is a matter for the police and not for private companies who have a vested interest in issuing as many tickets as possible.
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Thanks "Holy Joe"

I paid my money (after I took my chance) - £75

The amount does seem a bit excessive for dropping one fag butt and there is no reduction for early payment or right of appeal other than going to Court.

Coupled with the fact the private contractor gets more of the money than the Council is a little annoying to say the least. I wonder how many of them are out on duty on a Friday night when all the drunks are disposing of bottles and take away wrappers all over the City Centre.

Just a thought if one of the drunks were to decorate the pavement with "purple rain" would that count as litter?

Oh no, the Friday night crowd would come under the far too difficult to deal with category!

 

[endecotp]

It is exactly as simple as some have suggested. Do not drop litter and you will not be fined.

Did you see this story: http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/08/counc...ropped-orange-peel-then-picked-it-up-5285621/

Over-zealous council officials have spent up to £8,000 of taxpayer’s money prosecuting a man who dropped a small piece of orange peel, then picked it up.
The offending piece of peel – the size of a 10p – was spotted by an enforcement officer who fined Luke Gutteridge £75.
Luke, who had put the rest of the peel in the bin, swiftly picked up the offending piece.
But the council worker refused to cancel the fine and told him he would face court if he didn’t pay.
Magistrates in Stevenage, Hertfordshire, accepted his defence that littering is only an offence if there is proof the person intended to leave it.
The council now faces paying legal costs of up to £8,000.


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/08/counc...peel-then-picked-it-up-5285621/#ixzz4MkJZtBRN

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you see this story: http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/08/counc...ropped-orange-peel-then-picked-it-up-5285621/

Marvellous. They got it right up them.

Eight grand. What a waste!

 

[DeeGee]

However, during marathons, I imagine that there are designated areas where dropping bottles is permitted because another body will have assumed responsibility for clearing up the bottles, rather than the intention being to abandon them.

Now you're talking my language! The event organiser is responsible for clearing up all litter, and they provide bins. However, that doesn't excuse, as I've seen in certain big races, the runners from launching a half-empty bottle across the road, over a hedge, and into a field.

I ran York Marathon yesterday. There were plenty of bins - great big skips a short way after every water station. I dropped every bottle, and every gel wrapper, either in the bins or on a table. Others kept hold of bottles a bit longer and dropped them by signs on the course (in the knowledge that they'll get spotted and collected). Others, with a greater sense of entitlement, just chucked them wherever they damn well pleased.

I've swept a course (a lap of Caldecotte Lake in MK) at the end of a race before, there are bins, extra bins are provided, and still I collected four full bin-bags of just water bottles, energy-drink bottles and gel wrappers.

There are no excuses. On behalf of the marathon-running community, I can only apologise.

 

[Antman]

Marvellous. They got it right up them.

Eight grand. What a waste!

And here's another farce......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKMZuiy6y-Y

The police didn't want to know and no further action was taken.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thanks "Holy Joe"

I paid my money (after I took my chance) - £75

The amount does seem a bit excessive for dropping one fag butt and there is no reduction for early payment or right of appeal other than going to Court.

Coupled with the fact the private contractor gets more of the money than the Council is a little annoying to say the least. I wonder how many of them are out on duty on a Friday night when all the drunks are disposing of bottles and take away wrappers all over the City Centre.

Just a thought if one of the drunks were to decorate the pavement with "purple rain" would that count as litter?

Nothing "holy" about it - just a basic awareness of my environment and of right from wrong, and not expecting to be able to behave badly/lazily with no penalty.

Why should the basic penalty be reduced for prompt payment? The offence is the same, and costs just as much to clear up. Conversely, the basic penalty should reflect the cost of correction and act as a deterrent, to be followed by an increasing penalty with delay, to reflect increasing administrative costs and as a punishment for those who presume they can get away with it.

The division of penalty receipts is another issue - my view is that the bulk should go to the body that is best placed to put it to good use in clearing up. If the Council decides to use a contractor and pay them a percentage instead of in-house staffs' wages, that's their decision, but the imposed deterrent to the offender remains the same.
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Sound like another cash cow. Unless they are employed by local authorities as private firms I am not sure how much power they have to enforce this. Open spaces can mean anything. This sounds a bit like private parking companies who have virtually no authority whatsoever.

"Cash Cow" - hmmm; well, more power to the milkers then - cash need only change hands if the laws/rules are broken. Again - no foul, no fee (to be somewhat trite).

Are we to take it that you regard littering on private land as somehow acceptable?!
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Now you're talking my language! The event organiser is responsible for clearing up all litter, and they provide bins. However, that doesn't excuse, as I've seen in certain big races, the runners from launching a half-empty bottle across the road, over a hedge, and into a field.

I ran York Marathon yesterday. There were plenty of bins - great big skips a short way after every water station. I dropped every bottle, and every gel wrapper, either in the bins or on a table. Others kept hold of bottles a bit longer and dropped them by signs on the course (in the knowledge that they'll get spotted and collected). Others, with a greater sense of entitlement, just chucked them wherever they damn well pleased.

I've swept a course (a lap of Caldecotte Lake in MK) at the end of a race before, there are bins, extra bins are provided, and still I collected four full bin-bags of just water bottles, energy-drink bottles and gel wrappers.

There are no excuses. On behalf of the marathon-running community, I can only apologise.

Unfortunately there is a vast swathe of people out there who simply seem not to have the slightest awareness that their blundering through life behaving as they please is anything but acceptable behaviour. I find it stunning how many people seem to have no vision beyond the tiny world they inhabit and no concept of 'society', with all the consideration and momentary thought that may involve.

 

[Antman]

Nothing "holy" about it - just a basic awareness of my environment and of right from wrong, and not expecting to be able to behave badly/lazily with no penalty.

Why should the basic penalty be reduced for prompt payment? The offence is the same, and costs just as much to clear up. Conversely, the basic penalty should reflect the cost of correction and act as a deterrent, to be followed by an increasing penalty with delay, to reflect increasing administrative costs and as a punishment for those who presume they can get away with it.

The division of penalty receipts is another issue - my view is that the bulk should go to the body that is best placed to put it to good use in clearing up. If the Council decides to use a contractor and pay them a percentage instead of in-house staffs' wages, that's their decision, but the imposed deterrent to the offender remains the same.
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"Cash Cow" - hmmm; well, more power to the milkers then - cash need only change hands if the laws/rules are broken. Again - no foul, no fee (to be somewhat trite).

Are we to take it that you regard littering on private land as somehow acceptable?!
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Unfortunately there is a vast swathe of people out there who simply seem not to have the slightest awareness that their blundering through life behaving as they please is anything but acceptable behaviour. I find it stunning how many people seem to have no vision beyond the tiny world they inhabit and no concept of 'society', with all the consideration and momentary thought that may involve.

And I find it stunning how some people cannot see the obvious flaws in private contractors trying to enforce the law, feeding the ducks is not an offence:roll:

 

[Deepgreen]

And I find it stunning how some people cannot see the obvious flaws in private contractors trying to enforce the law, feeding the ducks is not an offence:roll:

Who has been fined for feeding ducks where it has not been specifically prohibited? Whether we like it or not, private contractors are paid by local authorities (and railway companies) all over the country to enforce all sorts of things as the police are not everywhere at once - it doesn't make littering any less vile. Obviously, private contractors simply need to be trained and be aware of their limitations. They either have been granted the authority to enforce the law or they have not - if not, then they simply shouldn't be there. Assuming they haven't just turned up out of the blue to collect random fines with no authority, then they are doing nothing wrong if they follow the requirements set out for them by their employers.

Dropping cigarette ends (the subject of the thread) doesn't fall into any 'grey areas' as far as I am concerned.