Person hit by train at Surbiton (07/10)

[GingerRH]

Absolute chaos on SW trains now due to the fatality. Lines not expected to open until 9.30, roughly 2 hours after the incident.

Thoughts with the driver and family of the persons involved.


On a side note - does no one on Twitter have any respect after a fatality?

 

[cjohnson]

On a side note - does no one on Twitter have any respect after a fatality?

Don't tar everyone on Twitter with the same brush... obviously some people are annoyed and there's the usual lack of timely information provided at stations and on train but most people seem to be understanding. I've seen the following tweets in relation to the incident:

"absolutely awful to hear. Thoughts out to all involved. Keep up your great work on here informing people."

"thoughts with driver and the persons family! How long do delays usually take in this situation?"

"really like your tweets this morning, nice tone and v clear."

"Why did you not put this through your tannoy system, just boarded a train 4mins ago. Thanks a bunch."

"Thoughts are with the driver"

 

[GingerRH]

Don't tar everyone on Twitter with the same brush... obviously some people are annoyed and there's the usual lack of timely information provided at stations and on train but most people seem to be understanding. I've seen the following tweets in relation to the incident:

"absolutely awful to hear. Thoughts out to all involved. Keep up your great work on here informing people."

"thoughts with driver and the persons family! How long do delays usually take in this situation?"

"really like your tweets this morning, nice tone and v clear."

"Why did you not put this through your tannoy system, just boarded a train 4mins ago. Thanks a bunch."

"Thoughts are with the driver"

That is true, I did forget to mention that. Poor wording on my part, what I should have said is some Twitter users never fail to amaze me with their lack of understanding and condolences.

You got me there

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Surrey Comet is headlining this online with a picture showing that the Ewell Road bridge is completely closed off by police; I imagine from this that the incident is at or just beyond the London end of the station? From memory Ewell Road is the one on the viaduct.

 

[Nicks]

Correct road bridge is just beyond the London end of the station - road has now reopened - (I can see it out of my window)

 

[infobleep]

My thoughts are with all those concerned.

On a communications point it doesn't help staff or passengers that the link between South West Trains and the online departure boards is down. So you can't see platform numbers and I believe staff have to manually enter in amendments. Shame the system has to be switched off for two months for the upgrade to take place. Not coming across that way of working before but I don't know why this is the case. It certainly wouldn't be if it wasn't necessary.

Below is my experiences of traveling today and some SWT on one of my trains. It highlights just how difficult it is for the rail companies in these circumstances. Not everyone on Twitter appreciates this.

I just missed the 7.33 Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham this morning so boarded the very slightly delayed 7.46 to Woking. Had I boarded the 7.33 I would have been just an hour late. The disruption was mentioned by South West Trains on Twitter at 7.32. It was on the National Rail Enquiries disruption page at 7.38 but I was now just using the station departure boards which didn't have anything about the disruption.m. I'm surprised the that there was no announcement at Guildford station before the 7.45 left. How long would it take for information to reach the station staff? I may have not travelled on the train had I known and been one less person at Woking. However these situations are sudden and not expected and not easy to deal with.

Once the 7.45 left Worpolesden the guard informed us. I wouldn't expect him to know as soon as a station might, given the station has more staff. We got held outside Woking Junction for 15 minutes or so and our train was then terminated at Woking, along with various other trains. That station was understandably extremely busy. One train left whilst I was there but I doubt everyone would have got on it.

Fast trains were being diverted via Chertsey and slow trains cancelled.

My terminated train eventually formed the 8.55 back to Portsmouth, which I boarded and headed home. Thought they might run it early as it was stopping at additional stations but they didn't.

I then attempted to get to work during my lunch hour as I have meeting. I could see I wouldn't make the 12.17 but as it turns out that left 15 minutes late so I could have done.

However then transpired during my journey the 12.52 Woking to Surbiton was cancelled and the 12.59 was delayed.

I'd avoided the 12.33 because I could see via real time trains that the inbound service was delayed, which is why I didn't take that train.

So I boarded a late running 13.02 to Surbiton.

This is the experience of some SWT staff. They were due to pick up a train from Woking. They just missed the late running 12.17 to Woking so got the 12.34. As we pulled into Woking they saw the train they should have picked up at Woking depart. They now had 10 minutes to pick up their next train from Woking. One was a driver and the other a guard.

This 12.34 service was now stuck at Woking because it also needed a relief train crew and one that should have been there wasn't. The guard and driver were only aware of this when they got to Woking and no one turned up. So guard stayed with the train. Don't know what the guard should have been doing in the mean time. Perhaps working another service or going home for a rest before their next shift. Perhaps they have already gone over the limit between shifts.

So be grateful any service runs after these incidents and if it's a bit all over the place, spare a thought for those concerned. It's not easy.

 

[Dr_Paul]

There have been several of these sad incidents at Surbiton over the years; I wonder if this is connected to the fact that there is a sizeable mental health facility at a hospital not far away.

 

[A-driver]

Absolute chaos on SW trains now due to the fatality. Lines not expected to open until 9.30, roughly 2 hours after the incident.



Thoughts with the driver and family of the persons involved.





On a side note - does no one on Twitter have any respect after a fatality?

I often think there is a difference between not showing respect after a fatality and trying to get info, but Twitter can blur this.

After a fatality I don't see that Twitter should become full of people tweeting 'how awful, thoughts with all involved' etc as that's fairly pointless and not why TOCs have Twitter feeds. People quite rightly want to know when lines will reopen as they have places to be and need to know if they should make other plans. Often the nature of twitters limited word count can mean it seems insensitive when that isn't someone's aim. If someone is told they can't get to work as the line is closed it won't make much difference to them if it's because of a broken train, staff shortage, signal fault or fatality.

That said, it's obviously also almost impossible to give people any kind of accurate timescale after such an event.

 

[infobleep]

Given that so few trains stop at platform 2, couldn't they install a metal fence their with gates. Im sure there a reason why not, given other stations already have such thing.

If it was installed, it could be opened anytime people need access to the platform. For example in time for the 9.11 fast to Waterloo, which comes from Southampton and departs same time as the 9.11 semi-fast, which comes from Guildford. There are also early morning trains before 7am which used platform 2 I believe. However much of the time it's not used.

One of the comments I read on Twitter was insensitive. Someone, not an official SWT twitter user, explained that the power will have been switched off so this persons train wasn't moving. This person wasn't anything any of it though and had at go at the other bloke for his comments. As far as he was corned his train shouldn't have been stopped outside of Surbiton.

I overheard someone say that one person asked a guard if he could open the train doors and get off. They replied it was more safe to stay on the train. Good job the person asked and didn't just try to get off the train.

As for the 12.33 train I avoided earlier. That left Guildford 34 minutes late, despite being on time when I left. I guess no crew could be found for it. The 12.34 that got to Woking was similarly cancelled so again I guess no relief crew available.

Thus morning one train was about 10 mins late leaving Effingham Junction towards Guildford and then got held up at Horsley another 30 minutes as I can only assume Guildford ran out of platforms, what with stranded trains. It was affecting North Downs Line services. One got stuck at Shalford for a time.

Don't remember seeing such platform blockages like this before but I'm sure it's happened in the past.

I noticed at meat three trains at Woking from about 8.15 onwards were taken out of service. They were not even run back with passengers on them so I assume not enough crew to cover their working back south.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Jumping in front of a train at pretty much the height of the rush hour at Surbiton is going to have a catastrophic effect on a very wide area indeed.

It's a bit like dropping a large rock into a pool of water, the waves & ripples go out over a wide area and SWT have shot themselves in the foot when it comes to train crew, as they're been paring away the route knowledge to the bone and now very few have any form of diversionary route knowledge to get them out of trouble.

But why worry when the incident can be costed off to someone else.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I was caught up in this with 1T22 and 1W61, been delayed all day. And as I pointed out social media earlier, the more information I give to people the less they complain!

 

[wastedlife]

Given that so few trains stop at platform 2, couldn't they install a metal fence their with gates. Im sure there a reason why not, given other stations already have such thing.

Yeah, but the times Platform 2 is used is very often as a Platform alteration during minor delay and disruption to get a train crossed over from slow to fast west of Surbiton. I think just about every time I've been on the 06:35 it's been announced on 1, but then arrived on 2. It would be quite hard for platform staff to unlock all the gates and let passengers onto Platform 2 with 30 seconds notice.

And a lot of the Basingstoke/Alton stoppers on Sundays use P2.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Yeah, but the times Platform 2 is used is very often as a Platform alteration during minor delay and disruption to get a train crossed over from slow to fast west of Surbiton. I think just about every time I've been on the 06:35 it's been announced on 1, but then arrived on 2. It would be quite hard for platform staff to unlock all the gates and let passengers onto Platform 2 with 30 seconds notice.

And a lot of the Basingstoke/Alton stoppers on Sundays use P2.

No it's not, they would get more notice than whatever you say, they can see through the P2 screens and the signaller will more often than not give them a good minute or two's warning as well and it's quite simple, easy and fast to do and if they used electronic gates it could be done remotely and even faster.

Besides there are certain areas at Wimbledon if you enter them it triggers a warning system/automated announcement.

 

[infobleep]

Jumping in front of a train at pretty much the height of the rush hour at Surbiton is going to have a catastrophic effect on a very wide area indeed.

It's a bit like dropping a large rock into a pool of water, the waves & ripples go out over a wide area and SWT have shot themselves in the foot when it comes to train crew, as they're been paring away the route knowledge to the bone and now very few have any form of diversionary route knowledge to get them out of trouble.

But why worry when the incident can be costed off to someone else.

I wasn't going to mention this but I overheard some staff today say that they were told to follow their diagram, when personally they felt that wouldn't get them to the train they needed to staff. Needless to say they were correct. However not being a member of staff myself, I can't comment on whether that would be the case in most disruption situations and in which case the planning staff may have been right as who was to know this would be the outcome.

The latest is disruption until 19.00. It had been 16.00 and then 18.00 Personally I think it will last until the end of the service. Not for all services, just some.

For example the 18.30 Waterloo was started short at Guildford at 18.58. I'm now waiting for the 19.14 from Woking, which is on time. So that is disruption beyond 19.00 and that won't be the only one. Understandable really.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Well they can't complain if you follow your diagram to the letter and unfortunately the way some managers go at staff you can't blame them.

With some you're damned if you do & damned if you don't and in times of serious disruption the length of time it takes to get hold of a resource manager (formerly TCS or train crew supervisor) is ridiculous. On more than one occasion I've just given up, gone past the obligatory 30' overtime caught the first available train to Woking or even gone to Clapham/Redhill & home, because no one has been able to give me a train or instructions!

 

[infobleep]

Yeah, but the times Platform 2 is used is very often as a Platform alteration during minor delay and disruption to get a train crossed over from slow to fast west of Surbiton. I think just about every time I've been on the 06:35 it's been announced on 1, but then arrived on 2. It would be quite hard for platform staff to unlock all the gates and let passengers onto Platform 2 with 30 seconds notice.

And a lot of the Basingstoke/Alton stoppers on Sundays use P2.

There are trains at Harrow and Wealdstone that used platforms on Sundays that are otherwise gated and locked. Not sure about during the week though.

Like I said, if it can't be done it won't be. However Surbiton is a place where incidents like this occur and sadly it won't be the last. Perhaps it just has to be accepted as part of life and that the only solution is the continued education and support to people in society. I know staff try to be vigilant there but there is only so much they can do.

Tonight people got off a late running 18.27 to Guildford. One person obviously not aware of trains in the area then tried to see if the late running 18.40 train doors would open. Note this is the only fast train to Woking and beyond for over an hour.

At this point the doors were looked and shortly the train left. I didn't hear anyone shouting for him to stand back. I don't know if someone standing that close is dangerous. It may not be in which case it's not so important.

 

[theironroad]

, as they're been paring away the route knowledge to the bone and now very few have any form of diversionary route knowledge to get them out of trouble.

someone higher up needs to consider all crews learning from byfleet to queenstown rd via chertsey for every driver and guard, as at least then it will provide a decent diversion round the woking to clapham core route which suffers lots of these and other incidents.

unlikely to happen because of £, but would prevent the sort of chaos seen at woking today.

 

[infobleep]

someone higher up needs to consider all crews learning from byfleet to queenstown rd via chertsey for every driver and guard, as at least then it will provide a decent diversion round the woking to clapham core route which suffers lots of these and other incidents.

unlikely to happen because of £, but would prevent the sort of chaos seen at woking today.

Sure their isn't infrastructure space to send more trains via Chertsey. Only fast ones went that way and not many.

When they usually run that way at weekends I believe it results in the Chertsey line having no local services and other changes to trains.

 

[AndyPJG]

When they usually run that way at weekends I believe it results in the Chertsey line having no local services and other changes to trains.

Indeed, for planned engineering works a bus replacement service is provided Weybridge-Addlestone-Chertsey-Virginia Water to avoid stopping trains at Addlestone & Chertsey to maximise capacity for diverted trains.

 

[infobleep]

Indeed, for planned engineering works a bus replacement service is provided Weybridge-Addlestone-Chertsey-Virginia Water to avoid stopping trains at Addlestone & Chertsey to maximise capacity for diverted trains.

Therefore I can't see how they could run more stopping trains. Being able to run trains to and from Weybridge as a shuttle might help as passengers could then at least pick up a Chertsey line train. In fact if they could have run shuttles to Esher yesterday and back that may or may not have helped.

The first stopping train north wasn't until after 11am I believe.

 

[GingerRH]

Therefore I can't see how they could run more stopping trains. Being able to run trains to and from Weybridge as a shuttle might help as passengers could then at least pick up a Chertsey line train. In fact if they could have run shuttles to Esher yesterday and back that may or may not have helped.

The first stopping train north wasn't until after 11am I believe.

When trains from the mainline are diverted via weybridge Chertsey Virginia water, the reading line then is delayed almost every train due to Virginia water junction causing a line up of trains. It's rather interesting to watch when you're waiting for a train from Virginia water, but, it's rather annoying seeing your reading service just sit at a red whilst 3 trains pass the junction.

 

[455driver]

if they could have run shuttles to Esher yesterday and back that may or may not have helped.

How and where are you going to turn the trains back?

 

[infobleep]

How and where are you going to turn the trains back?

I don't know but I've seen trains turned back at Surbiton and I know trains cross from the slow lines to fast lines between Surbiton and Woking so I kind of thought may be there's something that could be done between the two stations during disruption.

After all no trains are actually running south from London at this point.

However it may not be possible even if that is the case.

 

[455driver]

I don't know but I've seen trains turned back at Surbiton and I know trains cross from the slow lines to fast lines between Surbiton and Woking so I kind of thought may be there's something that could be done between the two stations during disruption.

After all no trains are actually running south from London at this point.

However it may not be possible even if that is the case.

Some platforms at Surbiton are signalled in both directions so trains can turn back, that isn't the case at most other stations including Esher.

 

[infobleep]

Some platforms at Surbiton are signalled in both directions so trains can turn back, that isn't the case at most other stations including Esher.

OK. Well that's the end of that idea unless there was a good business case for other platforms at other stations being bidirectional. There's obviously a business case for Surbiton or it wouldn't exist.

 

[randompixel]

They've put up a pretty detailed explanation for yesterday. Sounds like a stressful day.

Apology for service disruption - Wednesday 7 October
We are very sorry for the serious disruption that many of you will have faced whilst travelling on our services yesterday. This was due to a person being hit by a train at 0730 which led to the closure of all lines between Woking and Wimbledon for 90 minutes. This was followed by a number of smaller incidents throughout the day which caused further delay.

After the person was hit by a train all lines had to close in both directions for 90 minutes to allow emergency services to conduct investigations. This not only affects the trains in service at the time of the incident, but also has a knock-on effect to following services. For example, a train crew that should have been working on a train departing London Waterloo at 10:00 will not yet have arrived at London Waterloo at 10:00 as they will have been working on a previously delayed train.

We worked quickly to divert and alter trains to reduce further delays, however the lines between Wimbledon and Woking are essential for us to deliver a full train service. Their closure led to significant disruption for both long-distance and suburban services. The displacement effect on traincrew and trains was significant.

By 1800, our Suburban services were running to the correct timetable; however at 1820 we received a report of a train fault causing delays on a train travelling between Waterloo and Wimbledon. Our peak service operates at 100% of available capacity, and this fault caused delays of 10 minutes to the subsequent suburban trains. Furthermore at 1900 the 1739 Reading to Waterloo was delayed at Clapham Junction for 15 minutes as a passenger broke the emergency exit panel.

During the afternoon, four separate trespass incidents at Woking, Havant, Petersfield and Hinton Admiral required trains through those areas to run at a reduced speed. In addition to this, the following incidents occurred during the afternoon:

- At 1457 a train from Poole to Waterloo developed a fault which required the attendance of a recovery train to finish its journey. This caused delays of up to 50 minutes for trains heading to Waterloo.
- At 1632 we had a signalling failure at Surbiton causing delays to both long distance and suburban trains.


Many train crews were unable to reach their trains to begin or continue working, and the carriages for some evening peak departures were delayed coming into Waterloo and therefore delayed departing Waterloo.

To help with passenger movement, we quickly arranged for mutual ticket acceptance with Great Western Railway, Southern Trains, London Underground, London Overground and London Buses.

We appreciate how frustrating it is when your train service doesn’t run as planned. We are very sorry for the disruption you experienced yesterday. We work very closely with the Samaritans and British Transport Police to help identify at-risk individuals to try to reduce the likelihood of incidents of the nature seen yesterday. For more information on this work, please visit http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway/suicide-and-railways.

Once again, we are sorry for the disruption to your journey yesterday.



Christian Neill
Head of Customer Experience
South West Trains – Network Rail Alliance

 

[cjohnson]

"Head of Customer Experience" - who makes up these job titles?

Also I thought the SWT/NR 'Alliance' had come to an end...

 

[infobleep]

They've put up a pretty detailed explanation for yesterday. Sounds like a stressful day.

That's a very detailed summery as to what happened. Thanks South West trains for providing that.

I wasn't aware of most of that, despite looking at the online departure boards in the National Rail Enquiries app, as most of that information was not made available to the public via that NRE. Whether that information should be made available or is should not made available and the earlier issue solely promoted is another matter.

My train to Woking was delayed in the evening. I was expecting this thanks to Real Time Trains Web Site telling me the inbound service was late. I use that Web Site to find out the platform numbers.

Personally I was expecting services not to recover yesterday but eventually they did. I think the last train I could see delayed was after 21.00.

Having read the above, I will in future expect the service to recover when South West Trains advise they will and if it doesn't I will know that other events have probably occurred in the mean time. I'm talking about incidents involving people and not technical faults where it's not fully known how bad the technical fault is.

Hopefully events such as yesterday will go down in number and not up.

 

[Matt Taylor]

in times of serious disruption the length of time it takes to get hold of a resource manager (formerly TCS or train crew supervisor) is ridiculous.

Just wait until November when the ORMs are gone, you'll look back with fond nostalgia at how things are at the moment!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I know it's going to be real fun. No one will be able to get hold of anyone else and the system will just go into meltdown even faster!