What's the plan? Reworked Birmingham New Street

[swt_passenger]

Sorry to disappoint all the conspiracy theorists regarding the allocation of revenue duties at New St. The fact of the matter is that nobody wanted the job and it has been forced upon Virgin via their direct award, something they were extremely unhappy about. They don't care and have never cared about the revenue lost in the West Midlands, demonstrated by the fight they also put up against the new barriers going in at Coventry where most Birmingham to Coventry commuters have been travelling on their services for nothing for years.

It's slightly odd to hear that a couple of TOCs don't really see revenue protection as their immediate problem. Who do they think should be doing this then?

 

[CharlieSpotted]

- none of the light seems to reach platform level, at least not the platforms I was on

This is the part of the whole thing I find most confusing. There was much fuss about the huge atrium roof "allowing natural light to reach the platforms for the first time ever". But I don't see how this is even possible. The escalators and stairs aren't even under the atrium roof!

 

[sprinterguy]

P1-5 looked mostly finished. I still don't get how more light is supposed to reach the platforms?

This is the part of the whole thing I find most confusing. There was much fuss about the huge atrium roof "allowing natural light to reach the platforms for the first time ever". But I don't see how this is even possible. The escalators and stairs aren't even under the atrium roof!

Frosted glass panels have been installed in the concourse floor under the atrium that should allow (diffused) daylight to filter down to platform level. They're evident on the concourse, but I don't know if they have been revealed yet at platform level. One to watch when they eventually get round to fitting out the ceilings down there.

You can spot one quite prominently in front of the escalators 26 seconds into the official Network Rail flythrough video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgz0IBvT6iA

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Frosted glass panels have been installed in the concourse floor under the atrium that should allow (diffused) daylight to filter down to platform level. They're evident on the concourse, but I don't know if they have been revealed yet at platform level. One to watch when they eventually get round to fitting out the ceilings at platform level.

Ah! Thank you. I didn't spot that. I wonder how long it will be before that becomes a reality!

 

[sprinterguy]

I forgot to mention that one of the most dramatic views is from trains approaching from the east.
At train level, the downward-facing mirror-like exterior cladding of the main eastern entrance produces overhead images of the trackwork and trains, as your train emerges from the tunnels and runs into the station.
They are somewhat distorted, but you can tell Voyagers from 350s in the reflections, and you can see the station throat and trains waiting on platforms.
I'm still trying to figure out whether this was a deliberate design aim or an unexpectedly attractive side-effect!

It's a feature that figures prominently in much of the promotional CGI, so I assume that it was planned like that.

 

[SephenWorceste]

This is the part of the whole thing I find most confusing. There was much fuss about the huge atrium roof "allowing natural light to reach the platforms for the first time ever". But I don't see how this is even possible. The escalators and stairs aren't even under the atrium roof!

I was at New Street a few weeks back. My train arrived at one of the refurbished platforms. I immediately notice an area of light on the platform flooring. It was quite a small area. I could not say the whole platform was flooded with natural light. Perhaps it depends on the weather.

Is the plan to improve the artificial lighting at platform level. That might be more use every day (and night) and for the whole of the platform?

I assume they are going (or have done) to refurbish the bridge. It seemed not to have touched when I was there.

I have yet to try the refurbished station. I was going to make a special trip on the day it opened but friends invited me to go away. My partner said the new gates were causing delays when she used it for her morning and evening commute.

 

[sprinterguy]

I was at New Street a few weeks back. My train arrived at one of the refurbished platforms. I immediately notice an area of light on the platform flooring. It was quite a small area. I could not say the whole platform was flooded with natural light. Perhaps it depends on the weather.

Is the plan to improve the artificial lighting at platform level. That might be more use every day (and night) and for the whole of the platform?

Looking at the Network Rail flythrough video, it seems that there is a considerable amount of artificial lighting yet to be installed at platform level. If some of the platform "skylights" are functioning already, then they mustn't be letting as much light in as the mock-up suggests, as I confess that I hadn't noticed any difference down on the platforms!

I assume they are going (or have done) to refurbish the bridge. It seemed not to have touched when I was there.

I can't quite work out what the plan is with the Navigation Street footbridge now. It was reopened back in May and expected to remain open until the new concourse opened last weekend, but the last I heard was that it had been removed from the refurbishment programme in April last year as a cost cutting measure. I don't know whether this situation has changed.

The New Street: New Start website doesn't make it clear what the next stage of the works is going to be, or when they are expected to be finished. As far as I can see, the website gives the impression that, as of last weekend, all work is now completed, when there is evidently a lot still to do.

My partner said the new gates were causing delays when she used it for her morning and evening commute.

I've heard anecdotal evidence that there has been some confusion with the ticketed areas at the new "A" end of the concourse being split into two, with a circulatory area in between. I think this was also mentioned further up this thread.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I assume they are going (or have done) to refurbish the bridge. It seemed not to have touched when I was there.

My partner said the new gates were causing delays when she used it for her morning and evening commute.

As I understand it, on the footbridge there were 2/3 issues:

* That shiny silver cladding was just too heavy for the structure to support

* They needed line closures to do some of the external work and weren't able to get any/enough

* Midway through the second phase, when it became clear that there were insufficient exits from the platforms (and exacerbated by the (well reported) problems with the escalators breaking down) they made the decision to re-open the footbridge as an additional exit, preventing any further work.


On the issue of the ticket gates... I was expecting chaos in my first week commuting through the station but actually have found that I haven't been delayed much at all by the barriers. I've never had to queue behind more than a couple of people, and people do seem to be arriving at them with tickets/passes ready. Perhaps your partner commutes at a different time than I do?

 

[SephenWorceste]

Thank you for that information. It is interesting to know the problems. I hope they do something with it as it is a detract ion from the overall improvement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder what you do in this situation on a big project. Network Rail must be under considerable commercial, operational and political pressure to accept the station. I saw them take the keys on television and say how happy they are. Some parts of the work was not completed. The platforms and bridge particularly. Do they pay the contractor and then hope they come back and finish the job? Do they pay the contractor and put up with an unfinished job for the next fifty years. Do they not pay the contractor until the work is finished despite having accepted the job? I am just wondering how it works.

 

[WesternS]

I wonder what you do in this situation on a big project. Network Rail must be under considerable commercial, operational and political pressure to accept the station. I saw them take the keys on television and say how happy they are. Some parts of the work was not completed. The platforms and bridge particularly. Do they pay the contractor and then hope they come back and finish the job? Do they pay the contractor and put up with an unfinished job for the next fifty years. Do they not pay the contractor until the work is finished despite having accepted the job? I am just wondering how it works.

No doubt sizeable contract retentions in place. Also worth remembering that the shopping centre above (the old Pallasades and now Grand Central) is not owned by Network Rail, but by Birmingham City Council who bought it from its previous owner (?Hammerson?) to facilitate the whole scheme [Note: once completed BCC are planning to sell it]. It would seem likely to me that the main contract will have different aspects/time-scales/contractual provisions for the 'rail-based' work (i.e. connected with the platforms, egress/access thereto, ticket gates etc) and the 'shopping centre-based' (i.e. the shops, fit-out etc.). I'd be most suprised if a ceremonial TV event of 'handing over the keys' for New St is similar to the completion/exchange on a house purchase.

 

[jimm]

No doubt sizeable contract retentions in place. Also worth remembering that the shopping centre above (the old Pallasades and now Grand Central) is not owned by Network Rail, but by Birmingham City Council who bought it from its previous owner (?Hammerson?) to facilitate the whole scheme [Note: once completed BCC are planning to sell it]. It would seem likely to me that the main contract will have different aspects/time-scales/contractual provisions for the 'rail-based' work (i.e. connected with the platforms, egress/access thereto, ticket gates etc) and the 'shopping centre-based' (i.e. the shops, fit-out etc.). I'd be most suprised if a ceremonial TV event of 'handing over the keys' for New St is similar to the completion/exchange on a house purchase.

I think you're right. All the publicity this week is ultimately driven by the opening of John Lewis today and the Birmingham Weekender events from tomorrow until Sunday. That there is still a way to go with the station is neither here not there in that context.

http://www.birminghamweekender.com

 

[dvboy]

I did find a single live Arrivals flat-panel in an obscure corner of the concourse (pic).
It shows all of 12 minutes-worth of arrivals, but complete with TOC logos - it might be from their mobile Live Arrivals app.
At least someone is aware that flat panels have their benefits.

That's an interactive screen (press the home button) where you can see Departures, Arrivals, or search for next departures to a specific location.

There have been at least three since the "half time changeover" last year - one by Costa after the barriers, one by Boots before them, and one by the Network West Midlands information office.

 

[SephenWorceste]

> No doubt sizeable contract retentions in place...

Thank you. I hope they do finish the remaining work soon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I could not get the interactive screens to work. The location selection seemed to fail and return to the previous screen. A bit of a gimmick I felt and they can only be used by one person at a time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
National Rail Enquiries (the definitive source of information) is still showing the half time plan of the station. Perhaps they have not heard that the new station has opened.

 

[Magicake]

Thank you for that information. It is interesting to know the problems. I hope they do something with it as it is a detract ion from the overall improvement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder what you do in this situation on a big project. Network Rail must be under considerable commercial, operational and political pressure to accept the station. I saw them take the keys on television and say how happy they are. Some parts of the work was not completed. The platforms and bridge particularly. Do they pay the contractor and then hope they come back and finish the job? Do they pay the contractor and put up with an unfinished job for the next fifty years. Do they not pay the contractor until the work is finished despite having accepted the job? I am just wondering how it works.

I would imagine on a project of this scale that the contractor would have been paid throughout the project as milestones were achieved.

 

[Chris125]

Thank you for that information. It is interesting to know the problems. I hope they do something with it as it is a detract ion from the overall improvement.

It will be reclad, this thread on Skyscraper City suggests it will be closing early next year to allow this.

 

[SephenWorceste]

A very interesting thread. Thank you..

 

[NRC]

Have you guys seen this vid? It really is great for Birmingham!

The people of Birmingham think so too

Birmingham New Street station. 5 years in 5 minutes. WOW!

You've got to admit, that's pretty spectacular
[youtube]7p-NdyYLkUg[/youtube]

 

[iainbhx]

On the issue of the ticket gates... I was expecting chaos in my first week commuting through the station but actually have found that I haven't been delayed much at all by the barriers. I've never had to queue behind more than a couple of people, and people do seem to be arriving at them with tickets/passes ready. Perhaps your partner commutes at a different time than I do?

The ticket gates have been wide open every evening except Monday when I have arrived at around 18:20 from Crewe. The current pestilence is large areas of the concourse being blocked off by a supposed queueing system for Grand Central which just gets in the way during the evening rush hour. Some of the signage has been changed, Moor Street passengers are now directed towards the Bullring rather than up to Stephenson Street.

I think the new arrangements are saving me about a minute on the transfer between New Street and Moor Street.

 

[Shinkansenfan]

The new New Street Station is a dramatic transformation over previously dark, cluttered interior of the old station.

But the configuration of the barriers at this station leaves much to be desired. Walking from the new VT first class lounge (I like it better than the revamped Euston Lounge) to the platforms used by trains heading to Scotland, one has to exit through one set of barriers, cross a fare free passageway, find the second set of entrance barriers, detour a distance, and re-enter.

I would have thought that once someone was in the paid zone, one could have unfettered access to all platforms within that station.

 

[TEW]

You could, by going down to a platform you have access to, then back up to the 'B End' concourse, where you can access all other platforms without using the ticket barriers.

 

[Shinkansenfan]

You could, by going down to a platform you have access to, then back up to the 'B End' concourse, where you can access all other platforms without using the ticket barriers.

That travel path is not obvious from the signposting. Still it is silly for passengers with luggage or for those less fleet of foot to have to do such a down and up move.

A better solution would be to place the lounge in a location where one can access all platforms without having to leave and re-enter the barriers or configure the barriers appropriately.

An even better solution would be to eliminate the barriers completely. That approach seems to work at certain platforms at Kings X where the installed barriers are simply left open. Guess they don't want to admit they made a mistake and simply remove those barriers there.

 

[SephenWorceste]

You could, by going down to a platform you have access to, then back up to the 'B End' concourse, where you can access all other platforms without using the ticket barriers.

Please not more congestion at platform level. I thought there was going to be less. I had not noticed how cut up the bits of the station are. I presume it is to give non passengers access to the shops and food outlets. It would have helped if the Virgin Lounge was accessed from outside the barriers meaning you could then go to any platform with only one set of barriers. I can see these barriers being very unpopular with rail travellers but they will probably be open most of time.

 

[wellwhatitis]

I can see these barriers being very unpopular with rail travellers but they will probably be open most of time.

Yes, the same people who used to moan incessantly about the lack of ticket checks. In my experience, rail passengers will always find something to complain about.

 

[satisnek]

Saw it for myself yesterday, bit of a disappointment I thought. It was just the 'new' station which we've had for the past couple or three years with the addition of a big wide open space where the original station used to be. But it's still not complete and I have yet to make use of the 'direct access' to the 'A' end platforms, so I think it's only fair to reserve judgement until a later date.

As I've mentioned in a previous thread, it's the exterior I have an issue with. I'm not a fan of that 'organic' style of architecture anyway, so it'll always be a pointless money-up-the-wall carbuncle to me. And that enormous animated electronic display is beyond eyesore. The point is, the old station blended into the cityscape - if it wasn't for a big sign saying 'Birmingham New Street Station', you wouldn't know it was there. Railways have been established for nearly 200 years now; the need to say 'look, here is a railway station' has long gone. What we have here is professional onanism of the highest order.

 

[The Planner]

Isnt the "big wide open space" the entire point though?

 

[satisnek]

Isnt the "big wide open space" the entire point though?

Maybe, but when the station facilities are clustered at the back of it you just get the feeling of unnecessary footwork. Perhaps I was hoping that the set-up we've suffered since around 2013 was of a temporary nature and that the new station would be like the old one only rather more spread out.

 

[deltic]

Saw it for myself yesterday, bit of a disappointment I thought. It was just the 'new' station which we've had for the past couple or three years with the addition of a big wide open space where the original station used to be. But it's still not complete and I have yet to make use of the 'direct access' to the 'A' end platforms, so I think it's only fair to reserve judgement until a later date.

As I've mentioned in a previous thread, it's the exterior I have an issue with. I'm not a fan of that 'organic' style of architecture anyway, so it'll always be a pointless money-up-the-wall carbuncle to me. And that enormous animated electronic display is beyond eyesore. The point is, the old station blended into the cityscape - if it wasn't for a big sign saying 'Birmingham New Street Station', you wouldn't know it was there. Railways have been established for nearly 200 years now; the need to say 'look, here is a railway station' has long gone. What we have here is professional onanism of the highest order.

Not sure what professional or even amateur coitus interruptus has to do with a railway station - Surely the fact that you didnt know the station was there was the problem with the old station. Good railway stations are a gateway to their town/city and make a very strong signal about its status and ambition. By its very presence it can be an great attractor or a detractor from a city centre - only need to look at how the areas around railway stations have changed over the years to see that - the greatest change has been Kings Cross/St Prancras - from a dingy drug/red light area to a thriving commercial centre. Long may the redevelopment of our great stations continue.

 

[Andrewlong]

I was there yesterday for the first time in years and was generally impressed though the building work was not completely finished and it was very busy with the addition of the rugby fans visiting the city for the game at Villa Park. What confused me was the Grand Central branding and whether this applied to the shopping centre or to New Street Station!

 

[Ostrich]

Also there on Saturday. I quite like it on balance, but I felt there were acoustical issues in the atrium - it seemed very noisy to me. Very confused at first, having arrived by train and then having to seemingly go through no less than three sets of barriers to reach the Bull Ring exit, but then realised I'd inadvertently gone in and out of the so-called "A" end gates enroute.

The smart card technology on the barriers seemed to be working fine (Centro ENCTS card). A guy working the barrier line told me he'd only had one refused at the gate so far, and that was around 11:30 ish.

When accessing the platforms, would seem to me to be better to use the gates at the "B" end and hover round there - much handier for those quick last-minute platform changes .....

 

[trainophile]

Passed through there today on a 20-minute connection, so not long enough to have a proper look around, but what struck me on the concourse is that the two large seating areas no longer have any seats!

Is this temporary? I do hope so.