What's the plan? Reworked Birmingham New Street

[coppercapped]

I see, there's consistency on the ticketing side of New Street now with the Ticket Office, Ticket Machines, Barriers and Excess Fares all being operated/manned by Virgin.

Interesting to see an "Express" operator handling all revenue matters at a Network Rail station serving various operators, however Virgin do carry a lot of local passengers in the West Midlands too.

It's nothing odd. The rebuilt Reading station is a Network Rail managed station but staffed by GWR who also handle SouthWest Trains and XC.

 

[the sniper]

It's nothing odd. The rebuilt Reading station is a Network Rail managed station but staffed by GWR who also handle SouthWest Trains and XC.

But GWR also provide most of the 'local' services.

 

[WestCoast]

It's nothing odd. The rebuilt Reading station is a Network Rail managed station but staffed by GWR who also handle SouthWest Trains and XC.

Absolutely true and a fair point, but GWR is the largest operator at Reading and operates all manner of services out of the station; long-distance and local services alike.

Out of New Street, Virgin just operate their "InterCity" long-distance services (which admittedly carry lots of local commuters from Coventry / International / Sandwell & Dudley / Wolverhampton), whereas London Midland carries most of the passengers on most of the local / stopping services.

I'm thinking of intercharge Network Rail stations like Leeds, Manchester Piccadilly and Glasgow Central, where on station revenue checks / barriers are mostly carried out by the "local" operator as used to be the case at New Street.

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe Virgin just got fed up with the revenue they were losing due to lack of staff on the barriers most of the time or the lack of effective ticket checks even when staff were present, and decided they could do better themselves?

 

[coppercapped]

Absolutely true and a fair point, but GWR is the largest operator at Reading and operates all manner of services out of the station; long-distance and local services alike.

Out of New Street, Virgin just operate their "InterCity" long-distance services (which admittedly carry lots of local commuters from Coventry / International / Sandwell & Dudley / Wolverhampton), whereas London Midland carries most of the passengers on most of the local / stopping services.

I'm thinking of intercharge Network Rail stations like Leeds, Manchester Piccadilly and Glasgow Central, where on station revenue checks / barriers are mostly carried out by the "local" operator as used to be the case at New Street.

I don't see the issue. Does it actually matter which organisation does the checks? One has to assume that the selected organisation has been approved by Network Rail which manages the station as a whole.

The important thing is that the ticket checks are done and the passengers given the information they need.

 

[WestCoast]

I don't see the issue. Does it actually matter which organisation does the checks? One has to assume that the selected organisation has been approved by Network Rail which manages the station as a whole.

The important thing is that the ticket checks are done and the passengers given the information they need.

Absolutely no issue at all, merely an observation from someone interested in that side of the railway, as I said "interesting" in #60. I'm sure they'll do a sterling job.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe Virgin just got fed up with the revenue they were losing due to lack of staff on the barriers most of the time or the lack of effective ticket checks even when staff were present, and decided they could do better themselves?

Well, the attentiveness of the previous LM inspectors was often brought into question on this very forum.

 

[Kite159]

With regards to the Navigation Street footbridge at the "B" end of the platforms, as I heard an announcement that it now exit only, is it exit only completely (as in you can go up the stairs to the footbridge but can't come down to change between platforms) or can you still use it to change platforms?

(As it was quite useful to change platforms seeing as some passengers can't understand the phrase "stand to the right")

 

[satisnek]

I never thought Moor St to New Street was a particularly bad walk. During the daytime it can be done almost entirely undercover, with the exception of a ~10m section outside Moor St where you have to cross the road. In any case, how many customers will be interchanging rather than going off out into Birmingham, for which the HS2 station is equally as convenient.

From (very poor) memory, prior to the Bullring redevelopment it was possible to walk from New Street to Moor Street without having to cross a road (even though the route was slightly less direct). Personally, that's not what I call progress.

As for New Street itself, it's good to hear that so many people seem to appreciate what's being done, but I'm sure (having come from/going to Snow Hill/Moor Street) I'll continue to enter the station just a few minutes before my train is due to depart and to get the hell out of the place as quickly as possible upon arrival!

 

[The Planner]

With regards to the Navigation Street footbridge at the "B" end of the platforms, as I heard an announcement that it now exit only, is it exit only completely (as in you can go up the stairs to the footbridge but can't come down to change between platforms) or can you still use it to change platforms?

It means exiting the station itself, there are no ticket barriers on it. Platform interchange is fine.

 

[Minilad]

Maybe Virgin just got fed up with the revenue they were losing due to lack of staff on the barriers most of the time or the lack of effective ticket checks even when staff were present, and decided they could do better themselves?

Considering Virgin have consistently been against having barriers at their stations in the name of "good customer service" I would suggest that theory is a little wide of the mark.
Going to be a lot of surprised people arriving at New St now and realising there is no longer an easy way out without a ticket

 

[jimm]

From (very poor) memory, prior to the Bullring redevelopment it was possible to walk from New Street to Moor Street without having to cross a road (even though the route was slightly less direct). Personally, that's not what I call progress.

But lot of people hated the subways that featured heavily on that route and would actively avoid it, especially at night.

 

[Bald Rick]

From (very poor) memory, prior to the Bullring redevelopment it was possible to walk from New Street to Moor Street without having to cross a road (even though the route was slightly less direct). Personally, that's not what I call progress.

It was, but by God you had to know where you were going and have your wits about you. That subway at St Martins' Circus was sufficiently intimidating that I generally preferred to chance it at road level after 8pm in the evening.

 

[NRC]

This incredible footage was taken on the opening day of Birmingham New Street station on Sunday 20 September 2015.

The redesigned station looks immense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5bCP1BbH5M

[youtube]K5bCP1BbH5M[/youtube]

 

[CharlieSpotted]

A bit more than that if you want to go the fastest route. You come out of covers from New Street to the Queensway and near Moor Street. The section along the Queensway is not very attractive or welcoming and there quite a number of "spare some change" merchants scattered along it.

Just as fast to go up the steps by the Rotunda, in front of the Bullring, down the steps/ramp at the other side and cross the road, if you wanted to avoid the gloomy walk (and the spare changers) underneath the Bullring.

 

[HowardGWR]

Just as fast to go up the steps by the Rotunda, in front of the Bullring, down the steps/ramp at the other side and cross the road, if you wanted to avoid the gloomy walk (and the spare changers) underneath the Bullring.

All this backs up what I opined a while back and which another poster mistook to mean that I was referring to Snow Hill - New St. By 'three stations', I was referring to Curzon St Moor St New St acute triangle. My point was that it seems to me that something more user-friendly and probably employing travolators, as at airports, would be needed and under cover throughout, to boot.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

All this backs up what I opined a while back and which another poster mistook to mean that I was referring to Snow Hill - New St. By 'three stations', I was referring to Curzon St Moor St New St acute triangle. My point was that it seems to me that something more user-friendly and probably employing travolators, as at airports, would be needed and under cover throughout, to boot.

There was at one point talk (however pie-in-the-sky) of a cable car from New Street to Curzon Street when it's completed. However, it now seems that the Metro will link New Street, Snow Hill and Curzon Street.

Moor Street will still be a walk, I suspect.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was at one point talk (however pie-in-the-sky) of a cable car from New Street to Curzon Street when it's completed. However, it now seems that the Metro will link New Street, Snow Hill and Curzon Street.

Moor Street will still be a walk, I suspect.

The Curzon St and Moor St main entrances will be closer together than Kings Cross and St Pancras though...

Which is why I've always thought it is a bit stupid for DfT to refer to it as Curzon St, as it exaggerates the supposed distance.

 

[mikestone1952]

I am fairly sure that it was specified in the West Coast franchise that the winners were to be required to staff the automatic barriers.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well, three cheers for the architects and project team that put the new New Street together.
It is certainly spectacular, and joins up all the bits we have seen so far into an impressive whole.
I spent half an hour looking round today, but not venturing outside for an external view because of the wet weather.
It was VERY crowded, and full of camera crews and crocodiles of visitors being shown around.
Still a bit too much like Oxford St for me.

Loads of space, too much to take in on one visit really.
You can now see how the old space was completely rebuilt, and it's true that there is much more light on the concourse.
There seem to be 3 access points to the platforms (two sets of escalators to each), called Red, Yellow and Blue "Lounges".
But once past those signs you don't see any reference to lounges at all.
I went to the Red Lounge. Is it just the north eastern bridge or is there a real "lounge"?

It's still a shopping centre with trains in the basement.
The mezzanine shops and John Lewis are still closed off till Thursday.
Plenty of fancy new eating places, plus the old ones.

At platform level, most of the obstructive cladding has been removed, but there is still lots to do to refurbish each platform.
P1-5 looked mostly finished. I still don't get how more light is supposed to reach the platforms?
I ventured to the old main entrance, but it looked little changed.
Signs to Moor Street were inadequate - you have two choices, straight ahead or turn sharp left along the front of the new station, but the Moor Street sign points at 45 degrees!
The first 100 metres or so without any cover is also not very clever in the wet.
The new awning was also leaking...

The most disappointing thing to me is that Network Rail have not updated the departure board technology - still the same monochrome, dot-matrix panels they have been rolling out for 15 years or more.
They are well behind airports in using large flat panels for departure information, particularly in summary form.
You have to navigate sets of 20-plus dot-matrix panels to discover where your train is (pic).
The destination scrolls with "Via Red/Yellow/Blue Lounge", not "Via Northampton" or similar!
I didn't really discover if there was any real colour coding in finding your platform.

I did find a single live Arrivals flat-panel in an obscure corner of the concourse (pic).
It shows all of 12 minutes-worth of arrivals, but complete with TOC logos - it might be from their mobile Live Arrivals app.
At least someone is aware that flat panels have their benefits.

 

[40907]

Whilst a superb job has been made of "above stairs", a number of passengers interviewed on the BBC Midlands News were making the quite sensible point that they also want longer trains so that there is less overcrowding on some journeys.
Sadly, with the general shortage of rolling stock, their wish is unlikely to come true.

40907

 

[iainbhx]

Just as fast to go up the steps by the Rotunda, in front of the Bullring, down the steps/ramp at the other side and cross the road, if you wanted to avoid the gloomy walk (and the spare changers) underneath the Bullring.

Ah yes and get to see the dawah merchants and the Godsquad shouting at each other. The Gloomy walk has its advantages on days like today.

In another move of brilliance, Moor Street is signposted onto the Stephenson Street exit which is much improved, but you get there and the signs stop.

Then there's there mysterious coloured lounges which don't exist.

This month's closed platform is platform 5, btw.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Moor Street will still be a walk, I suspect.

During my brief period on CENTRO, there was talk of a travelator between the two. However, talk was cheap on there and eventually there will be some form of Metro link, although I fear that will be done wrong as well.

 

[the sniper]

Whilst a superb job has been made of "above stairs", a number of passengers interviewed on the BBC Midlands News were making the quite sensible point that they also want longer trains so that there is less overcrowding on some journeys.
Sadly, with the general shortage of rolling stock, their wish is unlikely to come true.

40907

Off topic, but more 323s are coming from Northern. There's a thread here.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I forgot to mention that one of the most dramatic views is from trains approaching from the east.
At train level, the downward-facing mirror-like exterior cladding of the main eastern entrance produces overhead images of the trackwork and trains, as your train emerges from the tunnels and runs into the station.
They are somewhat distorted, but you can tell Voyagers from 350s in the reflections, and you can see the station throat and trains waiting on platforms.
I'm still trying to figure out whether this was a deliberate design aim or an unexpectedly attractive side-effect!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The most disappointing thing to me is that Network Rail have not updated the departure board technology - still the same monochrome, dot-matrix panels they have been rolling out for 15 years or more.
They are well behind airports in using large flat panels for departure information, particularly in summary form.
You have to navigate sets of 20-plus dot-matrix panels to discover where your train is (pic).

I think the reason they are sticking with those is because they work. In the late 1990s there were all sorts of experiments with flat panels (plasma at the time, which was rubbish), dot-matrix displays and all sorts.

Then, at Liverpool Lime St in about 2000, when the mechanical dot-matrix display had got particularly unreadable, they apologised for not installing plasma because it was too expensive, and instead installed an orange LED display in the traditional Solari format. It did the job admirably, and the format was quite rightly rolled out throughout the network.

It's clear, it's readable in all light conditions, it's reliable, it shows all calling points, if you want to find your train you just read the times across from left to right.

What's not to like?

(Airports are a different issue because you tend not to get all-stations-stopping aircraft very often!)

As for lounges, I suspect this will go away as it doesn't seem a sensible way of doing things.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I never thought Moor St to New Street was a particularly bad walk. During the daytime it can be done almost entirely undercover, with the exception of a ~10m section outside Moor St where you have to cross the road. In any case, how many customers will be interchanging rather than going off out into Birmingham, for which the HS2 station is equally as convenient.

You appear to have forgotten about customers who will be changing trains at New Street in order to catch HS2 services. If you take into account cross city suburban services, customers traveling from Stafford and Wolverhampton and customers traveling up from the South West that's a fair few people walking between New Street and Curzon Street. And of course people making the opposite journey. Not everyone simply travels city centre to city centre

 

[The Planner]

Won't affect Stafford so much as they get 1tph under HS2.

 

[wellwhatitis]

Maybe Virgin just got fed up with the revenue they were losing due to lack of staff on the barriers most of the time or the lack of effective ticket checks even when staff were present, and decided they could do better themselves?

Sorry to disappoint all the conspiracy theorists regarding the allocation of revenue duties at New St. The fact of the matter is that nobody wanted the job and it has been forced upon Virgin via their direct award, something they were extremely unhappy about. They don't care and have never cared about the revenue lost in the West Midlands, demonstrated by the fight they also put up against the new barriers going in at Coventry where most Birmingham to Coventry commuters have been travelling on their services for nothing for years.

 

[Jonfun]

It's clear, it's readable in all light conditions, it's reliable, it shows all calling points, if you want to find your train you just read the times across from left to right.

What's not to like?

If not spaced correctly, or there's too many boards, or if they're in an awkward place, they stop being words and just become a sea of orange dots. Some (not specifically saying this example, I thought it wasn't too bad personally though not perfect) are headache inducing - there's two orange departure summary screens at Leeds that I'm thinking of in particular here. Will see if I can get a pic as I pass through later.

The style of board they often use on the continent, with white writing on a blue background (think they still use it at St Pancras, and its the same type of board as the one above the goldfish bowl at Manchester Piccadilly), are much clearer to read and less harsh on the eyes, and I would suspect the same could be said for LCD screens etc provided that efforts were taken to mitigate the effect of direct sunlight and glare on the screen.

 

[Kettledrum]

impressions from my first visit yesterday:

positives

- concourse is huge, clean and flooded with lots of light
- roof windows are spectacular in the concourse
- lots of work still in progress, with a whole army of workers on the mezzanine shopping centre floor last night.

negatives

- none of the light seems to reach platform level, at least not the platforms I was on
- platforms still look a dark mess - lots of boarding still up, and old breeze block walls
- platforms are still too narrow in places
- ceilings in the main concourse are not in place, leaving lots of wiring visible
- some of the doors exiting to Stephenson Street still not in use

and my XC train journey was still lousy: late, short formed, overcrowded, and dirty.

 

[DarloRich]

The platforms aren't yet finished and New Street can hardly be held responsible for XC stock provision and care can they?