Northern Customer Information System Improvment - 100 stations?

[northwichcat]

Well it seems the new small CIS displays don't get noticed by the conductors. One dispatched a train today when the CIS was showing it was 2 minutes until departure but 3 stations down the line where there's a larger CIS the conductor made the train wait for 3 minutes after everyone had got one so it didn't depart early.

 

[Darren R]

I noticed this week that posters have gone up at Accrington advertising that CIS is finally to be installed. The station has services to six different destinations, each of which has a different calling pattern, and saw over a third of a million passengers last year. Despite that there is no information other than the timetable posters near the platforms. hock:

 

[northwichcat]

I noticed this week that posters have gone up at Accrington advertising that CIS is finally to be installed. The station has services to six different destinations, each of which has a different calling pattern, and saw over a third of a million passengers last year. Despite that there is no information other than the timetable posters near the platforms. hock:

I think the short answer is the original Northern franchise awarded in 2004 didn't require the installation of CIS and the stations which have received it since have mainly been as the result of grants awarded to PTEs.

Even now the Direct Award has required some of the non-PTE stations to get CIS they are getting more basic systems than those which have received it under PTE schemes. Hale (in Greater Manchester with 165,000 journeys per annum) has just got displays which have three lines plus an additional line for the time on both platforms plus other displays showing all departures near the entrances. Knutsford (in Cheshire with 500,000 journeys per annum) has got a two line display CIS on each platform and nothing at the entrances.

 

[Starmill]

Having finally seen some examples of these acreens I'm shocked.

These 2-line screens are totally substaandard for all put the smallest of unstaffed stations. Absolutely not suitable for somewhere as busy as Knutsford. They don't have the current time on them, they are too small to see unless you're stood next to them and they can't even show more than 1 train at the eame time.

What a joke.

 

[northwichcat]

Having finally seen some examples of these acreens I'm shocked.

These 2-line screens are totally substaandard for all put the smallest of unstaffed stations. Absolutely not suitable for somewhere as busy as Knutsford. They don't have the current time on them, they are too small to see unless you're stood next to them and they can't even show more than 1 train at the eame time.

What a joke.

The current time does appear but on the second line alternating with the calling pattern of the next service and the time of the following service. As I mentioned in a previous post conductors will happily dispatch trains even if these displays show that it's 2 minutes until departure time, they obviously don't use them/can't see them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

These 2-line screens are totally substaandard for all put the smallest of unstaffed stations. Absolutely not suitable for somewhere as busy as Knutsford. They don't have the current time on them, they are too small to see unless you're stood next to them and they can't even show more than 1 train at the eame time.

What a joke.

Are there any photos of them?

It seems surprising that the otherwise national standard of a 3-line LED display plus the time and a summary LCD TV style display somewhere near the station entrance was not used.

 

[Karl]

Are there any photos of them?

It seems surprising that the otherwise national standard of a 3-line LED display plus the time and a summary LCD TV style display somewhere near the station entrance was not used.

Here's the new ones that surprised me at Bamber Bridge from the 1st of September.





Bamber Bridge - 1st September 2015 by Karl Johnson, on Flickr

 

[BurtonM]

That's quite literally half a PIS.

 

[323235]

I noticed this week that posters have gone up at Accrington advertising that CIS is finally to be installed. The station has services to six different destinations, each of which has a different calling pattern, and saw over a third of a million passengers last year. Despite that there is no information other than the timetable posters near the platforms. hock:

There is real time information on the ticket machine on the Colne/Leeds/Manchester Victoria bound platform

 

[Darren R]

There is real time information on the ticket machine on the Colne/Leeds/Manchester Victoria bound platform

Well you learn something every day! Is this a common feature on ticket machines? (I never need to use them for the journeys I make, and by the time I walk past the machine of which you speak I have already completed my journey - with a ticket! )

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's quite literally half a PIS.

Taking the...you could say.

 

[northwichcat]

Well you learn something every day! Is this a common feature on ticket machines? (I never need to use them for the journeys I make, and by the time I walk past the machine of which you speak I have already completed my journey - with a ticket! )

Some Parkeon TVMs have default displays like this: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansblog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/20140523_083200_resized_1.jpg

However, obviously not when someone is using the TVM and it doesn't instantly return to that display when someone has finished using it.

'No delays' means no problems affecting multiple services like a signalling failure opposed to no delays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

These 2-line screens are totally substaandard for all put the smallest of unstaffed stations.

Just thinking how many Northern managed* stations will be left with CIS after these schemes are complete?

Looking at the Mid-Cheshire line - as well as Knutsford - Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington and Navigation Rd are supposed to be getting CIS as part of the Direct Award. That's 5 stations in total and 6 village stations will still be without CIS. Maybe if the next franchise has to fit CIS at the remaining stations it would make sense for the units at Knutsford, Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington and Navigation Rd to be transferred to five of the stations without CIS and those stations to get better CIS?

(* Or TPE managed stations which will transfer to the next Northern franchise)

 

[Greybeard33]

I think the short answer is the original Northern franchise awarded in 2004 didn't require the installation of CIS and the stations which have received it since have mainly been as the result of grants awarded to PTEs.

Even now the Direct Award has required some of the non-PTE stations to get CIS they are getting more basic systems than those which have received it under PTE schemes. Hale (in Greater Manchester with 165,000 journeys per annum) has just got displays which have three lines plus an additional line for the time on both platforms plus other displays showing all departures near the entrances. Knutsford (in Cheshire with 500,000 journeys per annum) has got a two line display CIS on each platform and nothing at the entrances.

Just thinking how many Northern managed* stations will be left with CIS after these schemes are complete?

Looking at the Mid-Cheshire line - as well as Knutsford - Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington and Navigation Rd are supposed to be getting CIS as part of the Direct Award. That's 5 stations in total and 6 village stations will still be without CIS. Maybe if the next franchise has to fit CIS at the remaining stations it would make sense for the units at Knutsford, Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington and Navigation Rd to be transferred to five of the stations without CIS and those stations to get better CIS?

(* Or TPE managed stations which will transfer to the next Northern franchise)

Hale, which was funded by TfGM's Rail Station Improvement Strategy (RSIS), has received CCTV and passenger help points as well as full CIS and auto announcements. According to the June TfGMC Rail Infrastructure Update http://www.transportforgreatermanchestercommittee.gov.uk/tfgmc/download/downloads/id/5050/item_11_rail_infrastructure_update.pdf nine GM stations are receiving this same RSIS package during 2015: Newton for Hyde; Hale; Smithy Bridge; Castleton; Broadbottom; Eccles; Flixton; Gathurst; and Pemberton. Interestingly, of the eleven GM stations receiving the Direct Award CIS package, four (Ashburys, Hattersley, Ince and Strines) are also included in the next tranche of RSIS, to be delivered by end 2017. Presumably these stations will initially get the two line CIS displays by April 2016, only to have them later replaced by the three line version!

It appears that Gorton, Moston, Bredbury, Woodsmoor, Navigation Road, Godley and Hyde Central will be left with the basic Direct Award CIS package.

 

[northwichcat]

It appears that Gorton, Moston, Bredbury, Woodsmoor, Navigation Road, Godley and Hyde Central will be left with the basic Direct Award CIS package.

A 2 line display at Navigation Road could be interesting when the Mid-Cheshire line gets 2tph. Even though Navigation Rd isn't a required calling point for the second service standard pattern peak time services will do extra calls and possibly there could be warnings about a passing train not stopping?

 

[Greybeard33]

A 2 line display at Navigation Road could be interesting when the Mid-Cheshire line gets 2tph. Even though Navigation Rd isn't a required calling point for the second service standard pattern peak time services will do extra calls and possibly there could be warnings about a passing train not stopping?

And Bredbury already has 4tph in each direction in the peaks. Eastbound destinations vary between Marple, New Mills Central and Sheffield, and the NMC & SHF services have a skip-stop calling pattern at the minor stations. A lot of information to cram into two lines!

 

[Starmill]

Are there any photos of them?

It seems surprising that the otherwise national standard of a 3-line LED display plus the time and a summary LCD TV style display somewhere near the station entrance was not used.

Even light rail systems that are getting them new have 3-line ones.

Northern are singularly the worst for penny-pinching it's quite shameful. And shaming. These are our local railways. Why do they have to be worse than comparable lines countrywide!?

By the way these are now on at Ashburys.

 

[BurtonM]

Yep - Sheffield Supertram now has a normal small rail-sized PIS.
In fairness at a station like Ashburys the 2-line PIS is probably sufficient (does Ardwick get one ), but at a station outside GM that people are going to use to get in to the city, I'd expect proper PIS.

 

[Starmill]

Rose Grove has normal sized 3-line displays... Burnley Manchester Road has mini 3-line ones... Accrington still has nothing!

 

[northwichcat]

Knutsford's new system has broken already, less than 2 months after being installed.

One thing I don't think has been said is the 2 line displays CIS have a display on one side of the box only, the other side there's nothing.

 

[jon0844]

Would these two line systems be that much cheaper? I mean, economy of scale and all that - surely well used, tried and tested, screens make more sense?

To not show the time all the time is madness. To share the second line with stopping pattern, safety info, how to follow on Twitter, how to stop the train, engineering work etc etc is even more crazy.

Even our bus stops have three line displays!

 

[northwichcat]

Would these two line systems be that much cheaper? I mean, economy of scale and all that - surely well used, tried and tested, screens make more sense?

Northern do seem to go for options which are cheaper up front. Look at the Parkeon TVMs, cheaper than the Fast Ticket TVMs to install but a lot less reliable and require more frequent maintenance.

With these 2 line CIS I think putting 2 or 3 of them on each platform and only showing the next train information could have been a viable alternative to 3 line CIS (alongside displays of all departures at station/platform entrances.) That would have advantages over one 3 line CIS per platform but as it is there aren't any advantages for passengers other than there is now a limited CIS at stations with decent patronage which previously had none.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps the software can be changed so a clock is always visible bottom left/right and with a line of LEDs to separate the slightly reduced scrolling area?

It's still far from ideal, as it's not just about saying where the next train goes, and when it is coming, but conveying other information - such as delay information, engineering work warnings, safety messages etc.

 

[northwichcat]

Perhaps the software can be changed so a clock is always visible bottom left/right and with a line of LEDs to separate the slightly reduced scrolling area?

It's still far from ideal, as it's not just about saying where the next train goes, and when it is coming, but conveying other information - such as delay information, engineering work warnings, safety messages etc.

I personally thing it would work better if the top line alternated so it said something like

16:42 Manchester Piccadilly Expected On Time
then
16:42 Manchester Piccadilly Current Time: 16:32

The bottom line can have quite a lot text scrolling across it. For instance, Meols Cop is on the list of stations to get the CIS. Some of the trains on Sunday which call there stop at a lot of stations e.g.: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y38211/2015/11/15/advanced Then after the station list it will say "A Northern Rail service."

 

[cactustwirly]

Here's the new ones that surprised me at Bamber Bridge from the 1st of September.





Bamber Bridge - 1st September 2015 by Karl Johnson, on Flickr

Thames Trains installed a similar system in the Thames Valley, they got removed a few years ago. The stations had off peak frequencies of 2-4tph.
We had to put up with them for over 10 years!

 

[northwichcat]

Thames Trains installed a similar system in the Thames Valley, they got removed a few years ago. The stations had off peak frequencies of 2-4tph.
We had to put up with them for over 10 years!

While we`ve had to put up with nothing for the past 10 years and more!

 

[jon0844]

You shouldn't have to go without anything to something that still isn't really quite fit for purpose.

 

[infobleep]

Some Parkeon TVMs have default displays like this: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansblog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/20140523_083200_resized_1.jpg

However, obviously not when someone is using the TVM and it doesn't instantly return to that display when someone has finished using it.

'No delays' means no problems affecting multiple services like a signalling failure opposed to no delays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Just thinking how many Northern managed* stations will be left with CIS after these schemes are complete?

Looking at the Mid-Cheshire line - as well as Knutsford - Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington and Navigation Rd are supposed to be getting CIS as part of the Direct Award. That's 5 stations in total and 6 village stations will still be without CIS. Maybe if the next franchise has to fit CIS at the remaining stations it would make sense for the units at Knutsford, Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington and Navigation Rd to be transferred to five of the stations without CIS and those stations to get better CIS?

(* Or TPE managed stations which will transfer to the next Northern franchise)

I'm sure I came across a Southern TMV with departure listing but for the life of me I could not work out how to get back to that screen. Didn't seem to be an option anywhere. I then started to think I'd dreamt it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Will Denton and Reddish South be getting CISs? That would be amusing if they really did! Not that I'd remotely expect them to.

 

[BurtonM]

Denton and Reddish South aren't getting PIS (and neither is Ardwick for that matter).
It's a well known fact both inside and outside rail circles that Stockport-Stalybridge is a weekly service - it'd go against Northern's skinflint nature to bother, and as well as that it'd be considered a joke and a waste of money considering the level of service (or lack of) that the line gets. Anyone using that line will, I'm sure, be fully aware of the train times.

 

[northwichcat]

Navigation Road also now has a little display in a shelter even though it's a very long bi-directional platform which could take 6 or 8 cars.

The Cumbrian Coast is getting ones which are a just a little bigger:
http://www.northernrailmediacentre....9KQ9A==&thumbnailsize=-1&download=1&doctype=0 (It automatically starts downloading an image of the system when you click that link in some browers.)

 

[jon0844]

Not sure it needs news headlines. But I suppose they didn't know what to use the rest of the screen for.