Ticket barriers at Stockport

[Clip]

Do many stations have so few barriers where passengers have to go through the barriers to get between platforms? Liverpool Lime Street and South Parkway both require passengers to go through barriers to get between platforms but they both have a lot more barriers in relation to the number of passengers.

Given Bletchley has a third of the number of passengers Stockport has, with interchange passengers not needing to go through the barriers, how do you think it would work if it had just one entry and one exit barrier?

I couldn't tell you as I have not yet visited every station on the network that has barriers and even less so those with ones between platforms.

However the main crux of my post was merely to inform that there are indeed stations that have few barriers where people have to queue to wait to get out and that Stockport isn't special in this regard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given Bletchley has a third of the number of passengers Stockport has, with interchange passengers not needing to go through the barriers, how do you think it would work if it had just one entry and one exit barrier?

Given that I've seen the barriers actually in use precisely once in the last 4 weeks or so, I'd imagine it would be fine

In all seriousness, Bletchley isn't massively busy and the flow is very directional, so 2 barriers probably would work.

Where is a joke with a small number of barriers is Slough.

Having just had a look at a photo of Stockport ticket office, though, I think the location of the barriers is mad - there's tons of room on the concourse where you could have probably fitted in 5-6 by splitting it down the middle. Platform 0 would still be a problem, of course.

 

[Starmill]

Do they? Wow amazing info thanks for that.

However - I can pretty much guess that the issues at the moment are getting the pax used to using barriers s Im guessing its all brand new.

Oddly enough - people ehave been queuing to get in and out of barrier for many many years all over the network without too much real both and in places where they don't have many gates - im sure the good folk of Stockport will figure it out sometime soon and catch up with the rest of us.

Really? Where does a huge queue form in a subway all the time to exit a station? Apart from boarding checks, which are less of a problem because they can commence well in advance of train departure time, I don't think this ever happens to me.

Is 4 gates sufficient there or not? It seems fairly clear that it's not to most people who regularly use the station.

 

[cool110]

How long will it be before people realise it's easer to run across the line to/from platform 0 and then for some of them to get hit?

 

[headshot119]

Really? Where does a huge queue form in a subway all the time to exit a station? Apart from boarding checks, which are less of a problem because they can commence well in advance of train departure time, I don't think this ever happens to me.

Is 4 gates sufficient there or not? It seems fairly clear that it's not to most people who regularly use the station.

Cardiff Central can get quite bad for queuing if you're in the subway trying to get out at the wrong moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How long will it be before people realise it's easer to run across the line to/from platform 0 and then for some of them to get hit?

The same time people think that in Birmingham New St? It doesn't strike me as a common issue in the UK, though it is more common in other European countries where the lower platforms are less of a psychological barrier to trespass.

 

[Clip]

Really? Where does a huge queue form in a subway all the time to exit a station? Apart from boarding checks, which are less of a problem because they can commence well in advance of train departure time, I don't think this ever happens to me.

Is 4 gates sufficient there or not? It seems fairly clear that it's not to most people who regularly use the station.

Ill reiterate that I haven't visited every barriered station so I cant possibly comment but there are stations that have few gates for the passengers getting on/off and at peak times this does cause queuing but people are used to it now they start doing it.

Of course protecting revenue on the railway isn't that important is it?

What poor souls that have to wait a minute or two to exit a station. My heart bleeds.

 

[northwichcat]

That was the case under the manual checks. There`s now apparently queues of up to 5 minutes. Maybe if this continues the Stockport MP should question DfT`s policy in parliament?

Strangely passengers are very unhappy about replacing STM RPIs with dumb robots!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was the case under the manual checks. There`s now apparently queues of up to 5 minutes.

That is unacceptable. If there are ever queues of that sort of length at Euston (or much shorter) the barriers are opened to allow them to go down. Even Slough, which I think is also unacceptable[1], doesn't involve waiting more than a minute or two.

[1] The barriers. Well, probably the town as well, but specifically the barriers

 

[185143]

That was the case under the manual checks. There`s now apparently queues of up to 5 minutes.

That is unacceptable. If there are ever queues of that sort of length at Euston (or much shorter) the barriers are opened to allow them to go down. Even Slough, which I think is also unacceptable[1], doesn't involve waiting more than a minute or two.

[1] The barriers. Well, probably the town as well, but specifically the barriers

I stand at the barriers at Manchester Oxford Road for around twice that time most mornings!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That was the case under the manual checks. There`s now apparently queues of up to 5 minutes. Maybe if this continues the Stockport MP should question DfT`s policy in parliament?

Strangely passengers are very unhappy about replacing STM RPIs with dumb robots!

There's a difference?

 

[Starmill]

10 minutes? You *really* wait for 10 whole minutes worth of queue to exit Oxford Road? I don't think there is even close to enough room for the number of people that would need to be queuing in the entire floorspace of the station!

However, at Stockport there are so few gates and a lot of people in a long, narrow area that it's clear this is going to be a problem!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

However, at Stockport there are so few gates and a lot of people in a long, narrow area that it's clear this is going to be a problem!

I am informed that this matter has been in the local press in the area and I wonder if any official railway organisational response to the matter has been forthcoming.

 

[narrabeam]

I think it is pretty obvious that 4 gates (2 in & 2 out) is pretty inadequate.
Aside from all the local services, 9 & 11 car Pendolinos arrive every 20 minutes & the exit is through 2 small gates. Given that tickets are checked at Euston & on board the train - then this is an unnecessary hinderance to exit the station, and does nothing for revenue protection.
Given that the barriers when in use, have to be manned at both ends- then they might as well just have continued with the revenue protection staff that were there before.
A pointless hinderance to travel in my opinion.
Every UK train has a conductor- this is where tickets should be checked- end of.
Anything else is needless.
Barriers are widely used in europe because many trains don't have conductors & on board ticket checks are random.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think it is pretty obvious that 4 gates (2 in & 2 out) is pretty inadequate.
Aside from all the local services, 9 & 11 car Pendolinos arrive every 20 minutes & the exit is through 2 small gates. Given that tickets are checked at Euston & on board the train - then this is an unnecessary hinderance to exit the station, and does nothing for revenue protection.
Given that the barriers when in use, have to be manned at both ends- then they might as well just have continued with the revenue protection staff that were there before.
A pointless hinderance to travel in my opinion.
Every UK train has a conductor- this is where tickets should be checked- end of.
Anything else is needless.
Barriers are widely used in europe because many trains don't have conductors & on board ticket checks are random.

DOO trains don't have conductors. Many have ticket examiners but not always present.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Barriers are widely used in europe because many trains don't have conductors & on board ticket checks are random.

Barriers are not widely used in Europe. Germany and France, for instance, do not have them at all. The Netherlands do but it is quite recent. Heavy Penalty Fares are used for enforcement on DOO services, and use of the TVM is mandatory. On German rural services, if you can't buy a ticket you are meant to tell the driver, who will himself tell the inspectors if they board that you did ask, I believe (or that used to be the case at least), while in Switzerland if the TVM is broken the station is effectively closed.

 

[Starmill]

Well thank goodness we do not operate on either of those last two ridiculous policies then eh!

 

[185143]

10 minutes? You *really* wait for 10 whole minutes worth of queue to exit Oxford Road? I don't think there is even close to enough room for the number of people that would need to be queuing in the entire floorspace of the station!

However, at Stockport there are so few gates and a lot of people in a long, narrow area that it's clear this is going to be a problem!

its not been less than 8 minutes for a while, there isn't enough floorspace, people are queueing up the stairs frequently! None of the gates are open with someone checking tickets, and lots of peoples season tickets don't work yet we are still forced to put them into the barrier on a daily basis!

When I arrive, an ex Southport and ex CLC local has just arrived as well as the Norwich train I use. The Blackpool train and the ATW loco hauled service aren't far behind.

 

[Ianno87]

I am informed that this matter has been in the local press in the area and I wonder if any official railway organisational response to the matter has been forthcoming.

As I recall from using them a few years ago, unlike the other 99.99999% of station ticket barriers, the Oxford Road barriers *always* fully shut before opening again between consecutive people passing through (rather than remaining open if two passengers put their tickets through in quick succession). This must slow the flow of passengers very substantially, especially if people keep trying to follow each other too close, causing tickets to be repeatedly rejected, for example.

My not expecting the barriers to operate in this way caused me to get 'pincered' by them (I'm trained on using tube barriers!)

 

[northwichcat]

The woman in front of me took 2 minutes this morning. First, she had to take her ticket out. She then tried to put the ticket and reservation through together. Next, she tried the reservation on its own. Finally, she tried the ticket itself and it worked! She then went half way through the barrier then moved back to pick up her ticket and then put it through again..

To be fair Advance tickets do clearly say they are invalid without seat reservations, so someone unfamiliar with ticket barriers could easily think they always have to provide both, even at ticket barriers.

As I recall from using them a few years ago, unlike the other 99.99999% of station ticket barriers, the Oxford Road barriers *always* fully shut before opening again between consecutive people passing through (rather than remaining open if two passengers put their tickets through in quick succession).

I was at Chester earlier where it was Race Day and despite there being hundreds of extra passengers leaving the station at the same time as me it was really the bridge and stairs slowing down people leaving the station. The barriers not closing between letting people through was key to the barriers not slowing down the flow of people leaving the station further.

 

[Starmill]

As I recall from using them a few years ago, unlike the other 99.99999% of station ticket barriers, the Oxford Road barriers *always* fully shut before opening again between consecutive people passing through (rather than remaining open if two passengers put their tickets through in quick succession). This must slow the flow of passengers very substantially, especially if people keep trying to follow each other too close, causing tickets to be repeatedly rejected, for example.

My not expecting the barriers to operate in this way caused me to get 'pincered' by them (I'm trained on using tube barriers!)

I think this is a fairly common setup for S&B gates? The LU ones are always Cubic, like the ones at Chester.

 

[TEW]

S&B gates are noticeably slower to open too. I always find myself walking in to them after they accept my ticket because they're slower opening than the Cubic gates I'm used. One thing that will slow down gates in the future though is the roll out of ITSO smartcards, which are fairly slow to read at the gates compared to an Oyster card or magnetic ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I recall from using them a few years ago, unlike the other 99.99999% of station ticket barriers, the Oxford Road barriers *always* fully shut before opening again between consecutive people passing through (rather than remaining open if two passengers put their tickets through in quick succession). This must slow the flow of passengers very substantially, especially if people keep trying to follow each other too close, causing tickets to be repeatedly rejected, for example.

My not expecting the barriers to operate in this way caused me to get 'pincered' by them (I'm trained on using tube barriers!)

I think that is the case with all the new type barriers (that operate using electric motors rather than compressed air) and it is extremely annoying, and has caused me to walk into them on a number of occasions. With the LUL (and older NR) compressed air barriers, you can always insert your ticket, remove it and walk through in a single fluid movement without stopping.

 

[narrabeam]

DOO trains don't have conductors

How many DOO trains stop at Stockport?
ASAIK all trains that go through Stockport have the ability for tickets to be checked onboard, so the barriers are needless.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You've seen the overcrowding on Northern services, right?

 

[najaB]

How many DOO trains stop at Stockport?
ASAIK all trains that go through Stockport have the ability for tickets to be checked onboard, so the barriers are needless.

Ah, but you had said:

Every UK train has a conductor- this is where tickets should be checked- end of.
Anything else is needless.

Quite a difference.

 

[northwichcat]

Ah, but you had said:

Quite a difference.

Maybe the fantasy international services from Stockport don't have conductors.

 

[LowLevel]

How many DOO trains stop at Stockport?
ASAIK all trains that go through Stockport have the ability for tickets to be checked onboard, so the barriers are needless.

They do. Try gripping an 11 car Pendolino or even a 4 car 158 between Stockport and Piccadilly. It's not possible.

 

[Haydn1971]

They do. Try gripping an 11 car Pendolino or even a 4 car 158 between Stockport and Piccadilly. It's not possible.

Not only that, I often witnessed people managing to keep a low profile on services between Sheffield and Leeds to avoid payment - on at Swinton, off at Outwood for example, I saw another the other day, already on the EMT train when I got on at Manchester Oxford Road, paid for a Piccadilly to Sheffield ticket when challenged - I've no idea how train staff remember who wasn't on the train before their last check, often they appear to rely on passengers positively presenting tickets on the busy services - plus at peak periods, there's little hope of being able to walk along the train. For me, barriers are the way of making sure my fellow scumbag free riders don't escape payments.

 

[northwichcat]

You've seen the overcrowding on Northern services, right?

I'd also be interested to know how one conductor is expected to check everyone's ticket when he/she is working a 142+150 combination with 300+ passengers. Even with a conductor and an AFC that wouldn't necessarily be easy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They do. Try gripping an 11 car Pendolino or even a 4 car 158 between Stockport and Piccadilly. It's not possible.

Some conductors don't even attempt to do ticket checks between the first and second stations. They'd rather try and catch someone trying to do a journey like Manchester-Buxton on a Manchester-Stockport ticket than catch the odd person who manages to find a way of avoiding the station ticket checks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've no idea how train staff remember who wasn't on the train before their last check, often they appear to rely on passengers positively presenting tickets on the busy services

I've been on services where conductors have asked to see my ticket because they didn't remember seeing it previously. Then if there's an uncommon destination or origin on the ticket they suddenly remember they have already seen my ticket.

When I've used Supertram services one thing that's surprised me is how good the conductors are at stopping by the people who have just got on, expecting them to either present their ticket or buy a ticket from them.

 

[Starmill]

Frankly the installation of ticket barriers (and I do wonder, are they still closed at 2200?) is unlikely to improve the relative frequency of ticket checking onboard certain services from Stockport.