Failure of assistance

[theironroad]

How can you collect and crunch data on people who 'wake up in the morning and on the spur of the moment think I'll jump on a train to the seaside for a day?'

The way one member of staff dealing with multiple assistances is avoided is by those who require it informing the TOC in advance so the TOC can do their bit of getting the right number of staff in place to ensure that person is not missed or forgotten, this is not limited to railway travel and is more about ensuring that person gets what they need to make their journey as swift and unhindered as possible not about them having some kind of different rights to travellers who don't need assistance.

Data that is collected is historical, but over time as the data set grows, it can be used to make reliable predictions acute future peaks in demand. Thousands of businesses and industries use data to predict when they need staff, materials etc.

The national grid use historical data to show that when corrie or eastenders finish, millions of people leap for the kettle as the credits start to roll to make a brew. National grid use this data, collected over years to predict the Electricity demand needed. Ng then call on power stations to increase output.

Heck, the railways use it to offer advance fares. They use passenger counts to predict demand and then use yield analysis to show how much money they can make from a train. We all know that if there are a few major sporting events on in London at the weekend and other events the trains will be maxed out, so tocs try to use all carriages available.

We're going to disagree it seems, sure it is useful if someone knows they are making a trip in 3 months, then have a system to pre book, but use actual data to show the peaks when more staff are needed. In a wheelchair or not, people should be able to catch a train without having to pre book.

 

[SPADTrap]

Data that is collected is historical, but over time as the data set grows, it can be used to make reliable predictions acute future peaks in demand. Thousands of businesses and industries use data to predict when they need staff, materials etc.

The national grid use historical data to show that when corrie or eastenders finish, millions of people leap for the kettle as the credits start to roll to make a brew. National grid use this data, collected over years to predict the Electricity demand needed. Ng then call on power stations to increase output.

Heck, the railways use it to offer advance fares. They use passenger counts to predict demand and then use yield analysis to show how much money they can make from a train. We all know that if there are a few major sporting events on in London at the weekend and other events the trains will be maxed out, so tocs try to use all carriages available.

We're going to disagree it seems, sure it is useful if someone knows they are making a trip in 3 months, then have a system to pre book, but use actual data to show the peaks when more staff are needed. In a wheelchair or not, people should be able to catch a train without having to pre book.

I'm still not convinced that this data could be used to accurately predict an appropriate number of staff to handle passenger assitances day to day, this could leave passengers unable to get the help they need but could have had from booking assistance?

For what it is worth I worked on the platforms for 2 years and not once did a passenger complain at having to book, many commented that it gave them piece of mind that they could travel without having to worry about it, that of course relies on the system not failing which as we all know does happen. I'm not so sure taking that away is as good as you think it will be?

Interesting thoughts.

 

[OneOffDave]

One of the reasons very few people complain about having to book in advance is that they are likely to know that the individual on the platform is as hamstrung by the processes in place as the traveller. As a disabled person you get used to having to prebook in so many areas of your life.

I commute every weekday by train. If I have to work slightly later than planned I run the risk of not being able to get off the train at my destination. It's difficult to even do something as simple as going for a drink with colleagues after work and catching the train that leaves 30 minutes later. I have to build so much slack into my journey to allow for traffic and delays that it adds an extra 30-45 minutes every day to my total time away from home.

The idividuals I've encountered that provide assistance have all been brilliant and done their best to make the system work as flesibly as it can but the system doesn't seem geared to the concept of disabled commuters.

 

[LowLevel]

Less abled passengers shouldn't have to pre-book, they should be able to turn up and expect the same service as those who do not need any assistance and certainly not been made to feel it is their fault.

Must admit, saying that 'it's not my job to get wheelchair users off at the station' really isnthelping the defence of guards on trains and the increasing push for doo. I'm glad that you do do it without 'getting grumpy', but having a guard on board dealing with all these issues is at the heart of the great customer service that on board staff can provide. You should be selling it as a skill and benefit of having guards on board.

Well it isn't my job and that's for good reason - the wheelchair user needed help to get to another train in a totally different part of the station - I'm no use to them for that as part of being a train guard as the name implies is being attached to a train. That's why we pay the station facilities provided to do it for us as it's a major station.

At unmanned stations and even elsewhere where they just need the ramp chucking down then I have no problem whatsoever doing so - it is absolutely my job as the guard to deal with wheelchair ramps at unmanned stations and assist VIPs etc. Taking passengers across large terminals and loading them on to connections underground isn't a strength for onboard staff however - hence I'm happy to help them physically leave my train but the rest of it, I can't fulfill their requirements.

I'm also afraid I can't agree with your comments about not booking - that is the ideal, definitely - however on the Victorian railway we operate it isn't going to happen for a long time and while everyone should be able to receive assistance whether they've booked or not, it's not unreasonable to prioritise to prebookings. Having surplus staff hanging around or on zero hour contracts isn't sustainable and while many operators do take on temps over holidays and the summer you can only do so much to anticipate demand and find and train staff.

 

[TUC]

I think there is a middle ground that would improve access in terms of not always needing to book in advance. There are some passengers who don't need the full originating station entrance to destination station exit support, and who would be happy to look after themselves most of the way if they could be sure that there was assistance at key points.

For example, a wheelchair user travelling from and to stations that are wheelchair accessible may well be able to get themselves to and from the train fine. What they need is the knowledge that on-train staff will look out at stations for any wheelchair bound passengers needing to board and put the ramp out, together with noting the need to do the same at the station they are travelling to.

The issues for passengers with other disabilities are different, but have similar potential. For example, my wife (who, as I mentioned above, is blind) unexpectedly got a call today from someone asking for her to meet him in Leeds. She knows her way in Halifax station fine so got on the train herself, but would have been stuck in Leeds had our son not been there to meet her, as the sheer size of a station like Leeds, and the unpredictability as to what platform a train will arrive on, makes it very difficult for a visually impaired passenger to learn their way around it. However, if at major stations, an 'assistance without booking' approach was adopted (given that they are both the station that are most complex for a passenger to deal with themselves, and have more staff to be able to manage this kind of issue), one can see how that would open up possibilities for passengers who were able to look after themselves for the rest of the journey. (The other thing that would be required is absolutely reliable on-train announcements when arriving at stations!)

 

[PHILIPE]

Going back to 2012 there was an interesting thread (Closed now) discussing Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson arriving at Kings Cross at midnight on East Coast train and arranged assistance failed to show. All East Coast could say was "circumstances beyond our control".
Now that wheelchair medal winning Paralympian of all people one of her many posts being a Commissioner for disabled people.

The link to the thread is:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62563

 

[67018]

Tocs should, if they don't already, monitor the numbers needing assistance. Collect the data, crunch the data. This will give a good guide as the data grows of when staffing levels need to be increased, then the tocs need to get the staff and put the staff on the frontline, so that 1 member of staff is not being left to deal with multiple assistance cases at once.

I'm fortunate in not needing assistance to access stations and travel on trains, so if I wake up in the morning and on the spur of the moment think I'll jump on a train to the seaside for a day, I don't need to book it 48 hours in advance just to suit a train company that wants to eliminate staff from the railways or cut staffing levels to the bone in order to praise the gods of 'efficiency' and 'productivity' as defined by bean counters trying to boost profits and dividend payments to shareholders.

We shouldn't have to say that's the reality, that's the status quo, we can't change it.

It can be changed.

Yes, it can be changed, at a cost. How much do you want your fares (or taxes) to go up to fund it?

I suspect the data suggestion is a red herring as the numbers probably aren't large enough - if there were 20 or 30 people needing assistance at a time, this lends itself to number crunching, but it's more likely to be 1 or 2, potentially needing help at any one of hundreds of stations. Even getting it right 90 or 99 per cent of the time is not good enough.

Might work for the bigger stations though - could be advertised as assistance always available between specified times where staff presence can be guaranteed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might work for the bigger stations though - could be advertised as assistance always available between specified times where staff presence can be guaranteed.

That sounds a good idea.