Missed connection due to crowding

[najaB]

Related to this thread - I was talking to a colleague today and they said they were forced to buy a new ticket that sounds a little dubious. They arrived at Leeds station on a slightly late train and had to get over the footbridge to make their connection (I'm not sure of which platform). Unfortunately another train arrived just before his on the opposite side of the bridge and he wasn't able to get himself and case through the crowd heading the opposite direction. Because of this he missed his connection.

He was made to buy a new ticket for the next train because his original train wasn't 'late enough' and he 'should' have been able to make the connection.

Reasonable response by the guard? (I can't provide more details since it's a second-hand story told over a pint.)

 

[island]

Depends on whether he allowed 10 minutes between the time of arrival of his inbound train and the departure of the outbound one, ultimately.

 

[Quakkerillo]

Not knowing which trains were involved, I'd say it's hard to say for this case - as always.
If minimum interchange time was used when booking these trains, and due to late arrival, you had less, and didn't make it, then you'd have a good chance I'd say.

 

[najaB]

Depends on whether he allowed 10 minutes between the time of arrival of his inbound train and the departure of the outbound one, ultimately.

He was travelling on a single Advance ticket with multiple booked legs.

 

[MikeWh]

He was travelling on a single Advance ticket with multiple booked legs.

Then I'd say he should get the additional ticket refunded.

 

[323235]

As MikeWh has said, it is without question an incorrect charge if it was part of an advance single ticket itinerary or any itinerary where the minimum connection time has been observed

 

[najaB]

Then I'd say he should get the additional ticket refunded.

I agree, but apparently he complained and was given the brush-off. It was a few months ago so I doubt it will be possible to do anything about it.

 

[gray1404]

it would still most certainly be possible for him to
1. ask the train company to look at it again by a Manager and detail why he is unhappy with their first reply
2. refer the matter to Transport Focus
3. if he paid for the first ticket on a card, raise a dispute with his bank.

Personally, I'd be doing option 2 above. Please do encourage him to take up this case and get an outcome.

 

[Haywain]

Before rushing to Transport Focus, it would be good to have full details. Was the "next" train a service of the same operator as the train that was missed? Was the appropriate connecting service used? Did the colleague decide that there was time for a pint or a sandwich between trains, when really there wasn't? Tranport Focus may be the way to go if the industry is at fault, but I don't feel that there is enough information in the OP to make that judgement.

 

[bb21]

I was about to ask the same question as the first one that Haywain asked.

I am not sure this case is as clear cut if the first train arrived on time, although I would expect discretion to be shown by Customer Service if overcrowding was the sole reason, even if the pax ended up on a different operator.

 

[najaB]

Before rushing to Transport Focus, it would be good to have full details. Was the "next" train a service of the same operator as the train that was missed? Was the appropriate connecting service used? Did the colleague decide that there was time for a pint or a sandwich between trains, when really there wasn't? Tranport Focus may be the way to go if the industry is at fault, but I don't feel that there is enough information in the OP to make that judgement.

I agree that TF isn't the way to go, and to be honest I don't think my colleague is that bothered either way (it only came up in conversation, he wasn't complaining). I don't know if it was the same operator (suspect it was) and he definitely didn't go wandering off for a pint.

The reason for the post was just to clarify the general point - if you are on time for your connection but can't make it because the station is busy, etc. is the situation any different to the example where the delay is due to specific action by the TOC (e.g. a revenue block).

 

[gray1404]

but it this way though, I am sure if it was one of us regulars on here who had missed our connection (even with enough time to change trains i.e. on time arrival from connecting service) due to circumstances outside of our control at the station, we would be putting up a fight to recover any additional fares paid.

 

[Southwest]

Depends on whether he allowed 10 minutes between the time of arrival of his inbound train and the departure of the outbound one,

Is this set in stone as a 'rule'?

 

[455driver]

Is this set in stone as a 'rule'?

It is the minimum connection time so yes!

Edit-
Every station has a minimum connection time (normally 5 minutes) but most of the big stations is longer, and this is the minimum time you should allow, note the use of the words should be, if you don't leave the minimum and you miss your train then tough that's your fault, if you have left at least the minimum then you will be allowed to travel on a later train.

 

[PermitToTravel]

10 minutes is the minimum connection time for Leeds. It's not normally something you need to worry about, as when booking a through ticket the journey planner will ensure you've got at least the minimum connection time to make every connection

 

[sarahj]

It is the minimum connection time so yes!

Edit-
Every station has a minimum connection time (normally 5 minutes) but most of the big stations is longer, and this is the minimum time you should allow, note the use of the words should be, if you don't leave the minimum and you miss your train then tough that's your fault, if you have left at least the minimum then you will be allowed to travel on a later train.

Or, if its the last train, able to make sure you get home.
eg. tonight, train from Victoria to Hastings, 10 mins late due to many many issues. The connection at St Leonards for the last SE train to Tonbridge is 5 mins. Thats the connection time, so as we were running late the SE train waited for the punters who needed it. If they could not have waited, then a Taxi would have been provided. However, if the connecting train is less than the min connection time, then its not a guaranteed connection and you would have to make your own way home.

* as a note, one punter did miss the connection as he was too busy chatting he missed the stop at St Leonards and only realised as the train was departing. He thus has to make his own way to his destination.:roll:

 

[suzanneparis]

Where can you find a list of minimum connection times for each station?

My experience of Manchester Pic is that it can take more than 10mins to find and board a connection especially if you arrive on one of those outside platforms (whatever they are called) and your connection is from the far end of the hall. Furthermore, on the two or three occasions this has happened to me there has been severe crowding on those outer platforms which delays you even getting off of the platform.

 

[najaB]

Where can you find a list of minimum connection times for each station?

If you are planning your journey using National Rail Enquiries then the MCT is automatically figured into any connections. There's an option to allow more time for connections - 30 minutes is probably the best option if you're changing at busy stations.

 

[Hadders]

The timetable pages of the National Rail Timetable will tell you. All stations are 5 minutes unless a different figure appears next to the station name in the timetable.

Alternatively www.brtimes.com will show it when you enter a station name.

 

[reb0118]

3. f he paid for the first ticket on a card, raise a dispute with his bank.

This sounds interesting. Can you explain how you would go about this and the likely outcome?

Cheers.

 

[Starmill]

Anyone who says "You should have been able to make it." Is effectively discriminating against people who can't walk quickly. All you need do is allow the published minimum connection time. If your inward train arrives with less than this time to spare and it should have done with at least this much, then missing the next train is just an unfortunate possibly that might need to be accepted.

 

[najaB]

Interestingly, I missed my connection at Haymarket on Wednesday night because the 22:13 to Dundee was formed of a 158 instead of the usual 170 and there wasn't enough room for the Festival + Football crowd and about 30 people (including me) got left on the platform.

Going to try a delay repay claim, will let you know what the result is.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Southerns twitter team has in the past stated that if you cannot board a train due to overcrowding when its shortformed then delay repay becomes payable.

 

[najaB]

Got home today and found £45.50 worth of RTVs from Scotrail.

Edit: It was actually £85.50, some of the RTVs were stuck together.

 

[ooo]

Got home today and found £45.50 worth of RTVs from Scotrail.

Edit: It was actually £85.50, some of the RTVs were stuck together.

Good job you discovered they were stuck together. Almost doubled your RTVs