ATW stock allocation questions

[Parallel]

I don't usually bother with on board catering by a trolley. I don't find the food very appealing, usually quavers and a few other small snacks. Admittedly, I did buy a sandwich, a packet of crisps and a drink from a SWT 158 on a Waterloo - Exeter service not too long ago, but if they didn't have sandwiches I probably wouldn't have bothered.

I do use the express cafe on FGW's HST services, more so if I'm doing a trip somewhere in the morning because you can't go wrong with a hot bacon roll with ketchup and a bottle of fruit juice.

 

[PHILIPE]

A friend travelled on the ATW daytime Fishguard Boats a while ago and worked by a Pacer. There was insufficient room for the trolley to pass down the aisles so the attendant came through the train and asked passengers to go to the trolley at the end of the carriage.

 

[SprinterMan]

BLT sandwiches are your best bet, because the Bacon is cured it keeps well :P

 

[ValleyLines142]

A friend travelled on the ATW daytime Fishguard Boats a while ago and worked by a Pacer. There was insufficient room for the trolley to pass down the aisles so the attendant came through the train and asked passengers to go to the trolley at the end of the carriage.

That surprises me as the 142s especially do have fairly wide aisles. I personally think the 158 and 175 aisles are FAR narrower.

 

[PHILIPE]

That surprises me as the 142s especially do have fairly wide aisles. I personally think the 158 and 175 aisles are FAR narrower.

Perhaps they are, but it was the explanation given. There wouldn't have been any pull down tables on the back of seats though so an inconvenience there, whatever reason.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Perhaps they are, but it was the explanation given. There wouldn't have been any pull down tables on the back of seats though so an inconvenience there, whatever reason.

Are trains that have a trolley service on board required by law to have tables? If so, the Pacers don't, which I find odd as the mould is there which makes it look as if there is tables. I wonder why they haven't just fitted them anyway?

 

[Parallel]

Perhaps they are, but it was the explanation given. There wouldn't have been any pull down tables on the back of seats though so an inconvenience there, whatever reason.

It surprises me if they're allowed to sell hot drinks on a train that doesn't have any tables (fold down or static). I don't see any reason for why they couldn't sell cool/cold bottled drinks and snacks/sandwiches though.

If they had catering and served tea and coffee on the Barnstaple line on a 143 you'd probably end up with most of it in your lap!

 

[PHILIPE]

2V08 16 18 Shrewsbury to Cardiff Cen (HOWL) went through Llanelli twice today. After arriving Swansea, returned to Llanelli to cross over thence via District Line due overrunning works between Swansea and Neath. Overrunning by a day due machine failure. West Wales beyond Swansea also via District Line.

 

[TEW]

It surprises me if they're allowed to sell hot drinks on a train that doesn't have any tables (fold down or static). I don't see any reason for why they couldn't sell cool/cold bottled drinks and snacks/sandwiches though.

SWT have trolleys on some services worked by 450s. They're happy to serve you hot drinks even if you're sitting in a bay of seating which has no table to put your drink on.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Major delays along the North Wales coast this evening, no information as to why. Platform screens at Chester simply showed reminders that the timetable was changing, you had to go back to the stairs to see the actual situation. Apologies as usual on the train (1625 Chester to Holyhead, shown departing 17 late but eventually left 25 late, arrived Bangor 1809 34 min late) but no explanation given. Seems the next one was cancelled as well, but no info on this. Hope it's sorted out by the morning.

 

[headshot119]

Major delays along the North Wales coast this evening, no information as to why. Platform screens at Chester simply showed reminders that the timetable was changing, you had to go back to the stairs to see the actual situation. Apologies as usual on the train (1625 Chester to Holyhead, shown departing 17 late but eventually left 25 late, arrived Bangor 1809 34 min late) but no explanation given. Seems the next one was cancelled as well, but no info on this. Hope it's sorted out by the morning.

Delayed by 25 minutes at Shrewsbury due to "earlier signalling problems".

 

[TDK]

It wasn't a step too far at all; to have no catering on a journey of almost four hours is completely unacceptable, regardless of the excuse. Not only was there too short of a dwell time at stations along the route to pop into a station cafe and get a drink, but it was also the 0540 from Cardiff on a Saturday morning, of which there were no shops open in Cardiff at that hour beforehand to stock up on provisions! Furthermore, I was ill anyway at the time and was dehydrated!

In fairness to ATW they replied, apologising and agreeing that it was not acceptable, which it wasn't!

I take a flask with me it is a lot cheaper and I do not have the comfort of being able to get refreshment from a catering trolley, pre planning is the key!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Delayed by 25 minutes at Shrewsbury due to "earlier signalling problems".

The guard working the Cardiff - Holyhead service was on a late running service from Birmingham as there were axle counter failures on the Stour lines, new signalling teething problems so there fore the train stood at Shrewsbury awaiting their arrival. To be fair I was on the platform at Chester and did inform many of the passengers for the reason of the delay and also kept them updated with the time of the delay, the reason it got later was because the down Cardiff train accessed the single line delaying the Holyhead service even more.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Thanks Headshot119 and TDK. It's a pity that you had to give out the info rather than the screens, and unfortunately you didn't make it down to the Bangor end of the platform. Screens at Chester still had no train info yesterday.

More confusion last night - coming down from Penrith and changed onto the 1825 ATW at Warrington BQ with a reservation in Coach A. First problem was that it was two 175s, with 2 coach A and 2 C. Guessed on the first: there were no reservations in it, but luckily got a seat. Good thing I did, because it was announced just before Llandudno Junction that the train would split there, and the back 2 were for Llandudno.

This was the first time this info was given (all the platform screens I saw after Warrington only said Holyhead) and cued a large movement of people from back to front at the Junction, and a few vice versa.

Unless this was an improvised service to cover a fault, surely this info should have been out there all the way, and in any case it could and should have been given over the PA a few times?

 

[PHILIPE]

This is the booked working, 2 x 175s splitting at Llandudno Jn. Perhaps the CIS info could have been better but can depend on the Data Feeds. Another member might explain the operation of the feeds better than me.

 

[Phil from Mon]

You beat me to it. Looks like two parallel but concurrent trains in the pocket timetable.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Given the inability to even label Pwllheli and Aberystwyth portions on trains out of Birmingham I'm not surprised.

 

[ValleyLines142]

150240 is the latest 150 to be repainted and refurbished.

The list of units now completed include:

150213
150227
150229
150230
150236
150237
150240
150250
150251
150253
150255
150257
150278
150279
150281

I haven't 150235 for a while; I personally think this one is next!

 

[headshot119]

Thanks Headshot119 and TDK. It's a pity that you had to give out the info rather than the screens, and unfortunately you didn't make it down to the Bangor end of the platform. Screens at Chester still had no train info yesterday.

More confusion last night - coming down from Penrith and changed onto the 1825 ATW at Warrington BQ with a reservation in Coach A. First problem was that it was two 175s, with 2 coach A and 2 C. Guessed on the first: there were no reservations in it, but luckily got a seat. Good thing I did, because it was announced just before Llandudno Junction that the train would split there, and the back 2 were for Llandudno.

This was the first time this info was given (all the platform screens I saw after Warrington only said Holyhead) and cued a large movement of people from back to front at the Junction, and a few vice versa.

Unless this was an improvised service to cover a fault, surely this info should have been out there all the way, and in any case it could and should have been given over the PA a few times?

This is the booked working, 2 x 175s splitting at Llandudno Jn. Perhaps the CIS info could have been better but can depend on the Data Feeds. Another member might explain the operation of the feeds better than me.

For the PIS screens to correctly delay this information it has to be uploaded to it, though that's fairly obvious, but it sets the scene for the rest of this.

For the PIS to tell you, front portion Holyhead, rear portion Llandudno, the CIF (Which is how Network Rail distribute it's WTT and PTT information) needs to show an association between 1D32 (1825 Warrington Bank Quay - Holyhead) & 2D32 (1955 Llandudno Junction - Llandudno). Having checked the current CIF for this period an association isn't shown, and hence the PIS doesn't know it's the same train.

It may be ATW don't want to show this, for various reasons, perhaps so Llandudno passengers don't complain if the they have to change at Llandudno Junction one day because of a failure.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

 

[craigybagel]

Unfortunately the APIS system on 158s is unable to show splitting trains, which is why they're unable to show the Pwllheli split - although they are working on a compromise work around at the moment. Given the 175 system is a lot older I suspect it can't do it either.

 

[PHILIPE]

If anybody requires some fairly rare track during the daytime, as from the new Timetable 2V06 05 42 Shrewsbury to Cardiff (Cen) via HOWL runs non-stop from Swansea to Cardiff via Ninian Park. There are a couple of trains that run that route now but early morning and late at night.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Unfortunately the APIS system on 158s is unable to show splitting trains, which is why they're unable to show the Pwllheli split - although they are working on a compromise work around at the moment. Given the 175 system is a lot older I suspect it can't do it either.

Paper labels ars using something to fit into the carriage A,B,C holders would have been very easy to organise.

 

[headshot119]

If anybody requires some fairly rare track during the daytime, as from the new Timetable 2V06 Shrewsbury to Cardiff (Cen) via HOWL runs non-stop from Swansea to Cardiff via Ninian Park. There are a couple of trains that run that route now but early morning and late at night.

For those who aren't sure of the significance of this, it allows you to do the Leckwith Chord during day light hours.

I will probably have a go one day next week.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just realised missed to say 05 42 ex Shrewsbury. I remember in the early part of the last decade, about 2001/02, when the return Fishguard Boats worked by a Class 37 use to come this route and sit there a while until it was admitted to the station in time to continue on to Rhymney.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Thanks Headshot119 and Craigybagel. Explains nicely. Other TOCs don't seem to have a problem with splits, and of course the "old" southern managed to make the info available at least 50 years ago to my knowledge! I wonder how many turn up for a Llandudno train, see it is for Holyhead, and let it go?

The other issue with the screens, at least along the coast, is the way trains seem to disappear once they are more than a few minutes late. Never been able to understand that one either, and more potential confusion for passengers turning up early for a following service.

QUOTE=Gareth Marston;2169572]Paper labels ars using something to fit into the carriage A,B,C holders would have been very easy to organise.[/QUOTE]

Agree totally.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thanks Headshot119 and Craigybagel. Explains nicely. Other TOCs don't seem to have a problem with splits, and of course the "old" southern managed to make the info available at least 50 years ago to my knowledge! I wonder how many turn up for a Llandudno train, see it is for Holyhead, and let it go?

The other issue with the screens, at least along the coast, is the way trains seem to disappear once they are more than a few minutes late. Never been able to understand that one either, and more potential confusion for passengers turning up early for a following service.

QUOTE=Gareth Marston;2169572]Paper labels ars using something to fit into the carriage A,B,C holders would have been very easy to organise.

Agree totally.[/QUOTE]

Its just lazy inattentive management nothing too complicated too achieve, though I suppose ATW will say "it wasn't specified in the franchise agreement" so they don't have to do it

 

[Phil from Mon]

Its just lazy inattentive management nothing too complicated too achieve, though I suppose ATW will say "it wasn't specified in the franchise agreement" so they don't have to do it

And so say all of us who have to use them.

And some of those who operate them. Travelling to Cardiff on a Sunday afternoon last year, the PA at Bangor announced that passengers for beyond Chester should use the rear 3 coaches of what was a double 175 if I remember. When it came in, the rear 3 were in darkness and locked, and the guard had to shout to people to tell them to use the front 3. When told about the PA announcement, he said "they" were "b... useless" but no, he didn't know which 3 were travelling down to Cardiff.

 

[TDK]

And so say all of us who have to use them.

And some of those who operate them. Travelling to Cardiff on a Sunday afternoon last year, the PA at Bangor announced that passengers for beyond Chester should use the rear 3 coaches of what was a double 175 if I remember. When it came in, the rear 3 were in darkness and locked, and the guard had to shout to people to tell them to use the front 3. When told about the PA announcement, he said "they" were "b... useless" but no, he didn't know which 3 were travelling down to Cardiff.

Things have changed as guards now have a new mobile device that can let them know the unit diagrams so there should not be a reason why any guard does not know what portion is going where unless it is a late stock change. I feel if there is a multiple 175 then if the train is not busy it is a lot safer to lock out a set as a guard cannot go from one to the other if needed to unless the train stops. The auto announcers are pre-programmed for a route and time, there is a special code to insert into the PIS and if anything changes what I tend to do is disable it as it will only confuse passengers, even though the auto announcer on a 175 is older they are a lot better as they are calibrated with mileage where the class 158 announcers are calibrated with door interlock that causes problems with request stops and also if the train stops and the driver has to egress the train for any reason.

 

[craigybagel]

The other issue with the screens, at least along the coast, is the way trains seem to disappear once they are more than a few minutes late. Never been able to understand that one either, and more potential confusion for passengers turning up early for a following service.

I'm open to correction but I believe the issue is the signalling - the coast having large sections of mechanical signalling means that its harder for the system to know where the train is, and delays may have to be entered in manually, especially if the station is in the middle of a large section.

Its just lazy inattentive management nothing too complicated too achieve, though I suppose ATW will say "it wasn't specified in the franchise agreement" so they don't have to do it

The company has spent a fortune above what they were committed to spend in the franchise agreement.

Things have changed as guards now have a new mobile device that can let them know the unit diagrams so there should not be a reason why any guard does not know what portion is going where unless it is a late stock change. I feel if there is a multiple 175 then if the train is not busy it is a lot safer to lock out a set as a guard cannot go from one to the other if needed to unless the train stops. The auto announcers are pre-programmed for a route and time, there is a special code to insert into the PIS and if anything changes what I tend to do is disable it as it will only confuse passengers, even though the auto announcer on a 175 is older they are a lot better as they are calibrated with mileage where the class 158 announcers are calibrated with door interlock that causes problems with request stops and also if the train stops and the driver has to egress the train for any reason.

The new phones have a lot of teething issues, there are still no guarantees there!

Similarly the 158 system has its issues that you're no doubt aware of. I believe it does actually have a GPS system fitted - its only meant to default to door interlock when that fails, and there is a work around for the request stops being installed at the moment - although I'm not sure if they've got it working on your patch yet, the Cambrian was top priority I believe.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Things have changed as guards now have a new mobile device that can let them know the unit diagrams so there should not be a reason why any guard does not know what portion is going where unless it is a late stock change. I feel if there is a multiple 175 then if the train is not busy it is a lot safer to lock out a set as a guard cannot go from one to the other if needed to unless the train stops. The auto announcers are pre-programmed for a route and time, there is a special code to insert into the PIS and if anything changes what I tend to do is disable it as it will only confuse passengers, even though the auto announcer on a 175 is older they are a lot better as they are calibrated with mileage where the class 158 announcers are calibrated with door interlock that causes problems with request stops and also if the train stops and the driver has to egress the train for any reason.

Thanks - explains a lot

 

[headshot119]

The new phones have a lot of teething issues, there are still no guarantees there!

Surely all the phone is doing is letting you access Genius via web browser? Though at times it can be a little unreliable and of course relies on having a phone signal to access it.