Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[ModernRailways]

Didn't they state that the non refurbished units would remain in their current liveries? I mean I don't know how the paint job on 4002 will survive mind its fading away.

I doubt there will be any major work done to the units that are not touched, maybe a new seat cover when the old ones are extremely worn out; One good thing, they won't be getting that awful sorry excuse of a PA anytime soon I've noticed many drivers seem not to turn the PA on on the units that have that awful sound pack on!

I'm assuming the two in the Emirates scheme will be kept as they are also until the deal with Emirates runs out; which will probably be rolling for many years. Question is, if Nexus do want to keep these units hidden in the depot most of the time. Which would be quite hard as we lack the stock, why would they want to sponsor spare stock? Something doesn't really add up there.

The Male PA is pretty much fine now, just a few minor tweaks needed as I've pointed out. Drivers aren't keeping it off deliberately.

No work, other than necessary maintenance, will be carried out on unrefurbished trains. They will, however, be given a full deep clean.

The livery's should be remaining as they are, however it is thought that they'll all be put into PTE livery similar to 4001.

The Emirates livery contract was for a (possibly 2) year(s).

We have enough units to cover the service. We'll still have 90 metrocars, and the 4 unrefurbished sets will still see regular duties. They'll be on Match day specials, Pelaw short services, as well as whenever additional services are needed out on the network (Christmas etc.).

 

[Paul_10]

The Male PA is pretty much fine now, just a few minor tweaks needed as I've pointed out. Drivers aren't keeping it off deliberately.

No work, other than necessary maintenance, will be carried out on unrefurbished trains. They will, however, be given a full deep clean.

The livery's should be remaining as they are, however it is thought that they'll all be put into PTE livery similar to 4001.

The Emirates livery contract was for a (possibly 2) year(s).

We have enough units to cover the service. We'll still have 90 metrocars, and the 4 unrefurbished sets will still see regular duties. They'll be on Match day specials, Pelaw short services, as well as whenever additional services are needed out on the network (Christmas etc.).

Why would they do that?

According to the link someone posted in here, it seems the 4 unrefurbished sets will be left as they are but if they are to be repainted then surely re-painted into the fleet Livery will be the best option?

 

[ModernRailways]

Why would they do that?

According to the link someone posted in here, it seems the 4 unrefurbished sets will be left as they are but if they are to be repainted then surely re-painted into the fleet Livery will be the best option?

I'm only going off what I have been told.

 

[Paul_10]

I'm only going off what I have been told.

Well it certainly be interesting if true and hopefully there will still be some role for the unrefurbished units, may know more once a press release is compiled once the refurb programme is completed.

A bit of an interesting incident this afternoon, potentially a very minor SPAD incident at Pelaw Junction. The signal involved was the 4 aspect one before heading onto NR lines, driver approached the signal and slowed down as per normal but too me, he must of expected the signal to change because we were coasting towards the signal but it didn't(because of the Northern service infront) and either he applied the brakes or the track magnet activated the track brakes and the train stopped from a very low speed(probably barely 5mph).

In fairness, he was over the PA apologising for the sudden stop and asking passengers if anyone was injured to contact him at Fellgate(no one did and there wasn't likely to be because of very low speed) and even opened his cab door asking passengers if everyone was ok. At Fellgate, the driver was seen on his mobile talking to control and perhaps a little bit surprisingly was over on the PA apologising for the delay(was only a slight hold up in truth) as he was on the phone to control telling control how he mis-judged the last signal which may suggest the track magnets activated the train brakes but it was hard to tell from my position whether this was the case or not.

 

[142094]

Unlikely to have been a Spad.

 

[Paul_10]

Unlikely to have been a Spad.

Well from my viewpoint the front of the train was definately in line(if not very marginally pass) with the signal and obviously with approaching the red quite close, you could hear the warning beeps continuously before the track brakes set in.

Maybe one thing that goes against a SPAD is that the signal did change 2 a double yellow which may mean the signal was not passed(unless of course it was changed manually as you heard the driver talking to control) but is it a procedure that if a driver has used the track brake for whatever reason and for whatever speed, they must contact control in case there is an injury to a passenger?

 

[ModernRailways]

Well from my viewpoint the front of the train was definately in line(if not very marginally pass) with the signal and obviously with approaching the red quite close, you could hear the warning beeps continuously before the track brakes set in.

Maybe one thing that goes against a SPAD is that the signal did change 2 a double yellow which may mean the signal was not passed(unless of course it was changed manually as you heard the driver talking to control) but is it a procedure that if a driver has used the track brake for whatever reason and for whatever speed, they must contact control in case there is an injury to a passenger?

If the train's stopped suddenly then the driver likely would have contacted control to let them know.

If it was a SPAD the signal wouldn't have changed and would have remained at red as the Metro would have been occupying the section that signal was protecting. You would have also been delayed longer.

It sounds to me like the driver was expecting the signal to change. Quite a few spots on Metro are like that, and a lot of drivers seem to have gotten into the routine of coasting to a signal knowing it will change.

 

[Paul_10]

If the train's stopped suddenly then the driver likely would have contacted control to let them know.

If it was a SPAD the signal wouldn't have changed and would have remained at red as the Metro would have been occupying the section that signal was protecting. You would have also been delayed longer.

It sounds to me like the driver was expecting the signal to change. Quite a few spots on Metro are like that, and a lot of drivers seem to have gotten into the routine of coasting to a signal knowing it will change.

It definately seemed like that too me but I'm surprised he would not of noticed the slow Northern train or if he did, he probably of expected the next section to clear, either way it goes to show you got to be alert at all times because you could'nt get any closer to the trainw without actually passing the signal.

 

[142094]

4033 has a new Emirates wrap - first 3/4 life refurbished car to have a different livery.

 

[Tramfan]

It's certainly an eye-catching design, I saw it on Train 150 this afternoon and went out to photograph it but it seems it was swapped to cover a break down as it didn't appear back at the depot when it was due.

Quite a quick re-livery as well, considering it only went into the paint shop on Friday evening.

Also makes it the first time we've had 3 units advertising the same company at once, and also the first time we've had 3 different variations on an advert livery.

I did notice that 4083 was missing this afternoon though, as 4027 has been paired with 4001.

 

[142094]

you could hear the warning beeps continuously before the track brakes set in.

Warning beeps will be the driver's vigilance device, which goes off after a certain amount of time. Unlike AWS, where the driver has to cancel the warning when approaching a caution signal, there is no audible sound on a Metro when approaching signals at caution or danger.

Maybe one thing that goes against a SPAD is that the signal did change 2 a double yellow which may mean the signal was not passed(unless of course it was changed manually as you heard the driver talking to control) but is it a procedure that if a driver has used the track brake for whatever reason and for whatever speed, they must contact control in case there is an injury to a passenger?

This is probably the most likely explanation. The signal wouldn't have changed to double yellow if the Metro had gone past it and entered the next track circuit section.

 

[Paul_10]

Warning beeps will be the driver's vigilance device, which goes off after a certain amount of time. Unlike AWS, where the driver has to cancel the warning when approaching a caution signal, there is no audible sound on a Metro when approaching signals at caution or danger.

That surprises me, surely there has to be a safety device for this type of thing? The beeps you hear at times(i think its normally 2 beeps but might be wrong) is what you say but these ones were continuous in what seemed like a response in saying your approaching a red signal at too high of a speed to stop under normal braking/the train is very close to a red signal?

Saw 4033's new livery today and I must say its probably for DDA reasons but I do find it rather odd seeing red vinyl covering the doors but leaving yellow around the door buttons but apart from that, the livery does look neat and tidy.

4083's livery is damaged somewhat on the windows on one side from a Graffiti attack so maybe 4033 has effectively replaced this. Be interesting if another refurbished car will get an Emirates livery so they could be paired together and whether we will now see more advert liveries appearing on the system again seeing as the refurbished programme is all but complete.

And if all things are still going as planned, it seems 4027 and 4040 are the 2 other units not being refurbished.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's certainly an eye-catching design, I saw it on Train 150 this afternoon and went out to photograph it but it seems it was swapped to cover a break down as it didn't appear back at the depot when it was due.

Two sets were ripped at Pelaw last night ( 27th ) in the peak, both with what sounded like brake compressor faults so your assumption is very likely correct. 4033 was running way beyond the peak hours last night.

No prizes for guessing where I was for four hours last night - and it was also the first time I've arranged a photo permit for the Metro and it hasn't rained on me! ( I now only need 4067 - surprise, surprise - for a photo... )

 

[Tramfan]

4027 has been prepared to head for refurbishment later today, the final unit to do so.

 

[tez thorn]

Can confirm 4027 has gone just seen it at The Silverlink roundabout

 

[142094]

4080 should be the one arriving back.

That surprises me, surely there has to be a safety device for this type of thing? The beeps you hear at times(i think its normally 2 beeps but might be wrong) is what you say but these ones were continuous in what seemed like a response in saying your approaching a red signal at too high of a speed to stop under normal braking/the train is very close to a red signal?

Nope, only safety device is the driver themselves reading the signals.

 

[Paul_10]

So 4083 has not gone for refurbishment then? It is interesting that its the 2 units with the Emirates vinyls that won't be getting refurbished it seems.

Hopefully if/when a press release about the completion of the refurb programme is released, we will get a more clear cut answer what is going to happen to the 4 unrefurbished units and what their role will be.

 

[ModernRailways]

Hopefully if/when a press release about the completion of the refurb programme is released, we will get a more clear cut answer what is going to happen to the 4 unrefurbished units and what their role will be.

This is Nexus/Metro count on there being a press release saying how well it's gone, and that everything is amazing! Don't count on the 4 unrefurbished cars being mentioned.

Does anyone know what happened to Huw Lewis? He used to visit here every once in a while but seems to have stopped since they closed the Nexus forum too.

 

[QANN93]

Been using the Metro a lot more recently and I have a few questions that cropped up from my time using it.

1. Why does it seem that the PA boards in the trains don't work very ofte, I'd say only around 70% of then work properly, some either have voice and no text, some have text but no voice and some are off all together.

2. Why are the new refurbs failing often with door faults, a few days ago and again today there have been issues when the doors are unlocked but the buttons arent actually working so the driver has to reset the train multiple times.

3. Why are the doors on the very old metro so slow to open, I see people all the time forcing them open as they are so slow, why don't they put the newer versions on

 

[MetroCar4058]

Welcome to the forums!

1) the PA system can be off for a number of reasons. The driver may have been unable to set it up due to a tight turn around, it may have faulted and been turned of or there may be a problem with the link between the units. I think someone else will be able to go into a bit more detail over the PA.

2) Door faults on the Metro are one of the more common problems because of how many cycles they go through in one day. Some are bound to fail every so often. One of the major issues with the doors I is the way passengers treat them, if you hold a door or push the door you are putting stress upon the motor which moves it; by doing this it increases the wear upon the motor, making it more susceptible to failure. In regard to resetting the doors a few times; was it that they would not open or one would not be detected as shut?

3) I do agree here that some doors on the older, or even newer refurbs are sticky. DB did go through with a door maintenance last year. I'm assuming this is dealt with during a trains period of maintenance. When 4022 was fresh from Wabtec her doors were fantastic!

At the moment we are stretched for rolling stock, in a couple of months or so we should be back to a near full complement and the depot team will therefore have more time to service the units for less minor issues such as sticky doors; which do cost time.

I've noticed 4001 has been sitting in the depot for a while, anyone know what's up with here?

 

[ModernRailways]

I've noticed 4001 has been sitting in the depot for a while, anyone know what's up with here?

She's in for an exam I believe.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

She's in for an exam I believe.

4001 was out on both Monday and Tuesday, paired with 4027 which has since gone to Doncaster so I'm guessing the exact timing of 4027 going down was tied in with 4001's exam being due?

 

[QANN93]

Welcome to the forums!

In regard to resetting the doors a few times; was it that they would not open or one would not be detected as shut?

They just would not open, when at a station the incredibly annoying and ear piercing beep would sound but the buttons would not light up and the doors would not open so the driver kept having to lock the doors numerous times to no avail then eventually resetting the train, this happened at every stop. Seen this happen 2 times this week.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone have a copy of the "stand clear of the doors" announcement from the lates 90s, Was going to make a FOI but if someone has it here and would like to send it to me that would be amazing, thanks

 

[142094]

Been using the Metro a lot more recently and I have a few questions that cropped up from my time using it.

1. Why does it seem that the PA boards in the trains don't work very ofte, I'd say only around 70% of then work properly, some either have voice and no text, some have text but no voice and some are off all together.

2. Why are the new refurbs failing often with door faults, a few days ago and again today there have been issues when the doors are unlocked but the buttons arent actually working so the driver has to reset the train multiple times.

3. Why are the doors on the very old metro so slow to open, I see people all the time forcing them open as they are so slow, why don't they put the newer versions on

1) The automatic PA system runs in line with what the destination says on the front of the train. For some reason, at certain times, it doesn't set itself up properly, so either does not announce stations at all or will only start to work half way through a journey. It is not necessarily the fault of the driver, but seems as if the technology installed isn't up to scratch.

2) Doors were not included in the refurbishment at Doncaster apart from repainting. The door mechanism is being modified in a separate programme. There are quite a few ways which the doors can fail, in most cases the train can be kept in service but with doors isolated. In some cases, if a safety system does not work, the train has to go out of service.

I've been told that there is a new fault which is becoming more apparent, which is what you describe. Doors are released but will not open.

3) The Kiekert doors were installed only on cars 4001 and 4002, which were the prototypes. They are air-operated along with the rest of the fleet but for whatever reason were an early design and not exactly what you would call modern. Putting the other style doors on would no doubt be a lot of work and money for little gain (plus would need to be approved by Nexus).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In other news, engineering work on the bridge means that the service is suspended between Monument and Heworth in both directions. If you are at Monument, you will have the chance to use the crossover between Monument and Haymarket for the first time in a few years (not counting the time where it was off between Haymarket and South Gosforth and trains were running in the opposite direction).

However, seems to have been a problem with the power supply in the Pelaw area all day. This morning it went off between Heworth and South Shields and Heworth and Brockley Whins. Later on it went back on between South Shields and Jarrow. It may have come back on again, then off again in the afternoon. Now it seems as if it is back off again between Heworth and Jarrow.

 

[Tramfan]

If you are at Monument, you will have the chance to use the crossover between Monument and Haymarket for the first time in a few years (not counting the time where it was off between Haymarket and South Gosforth and trains were running in the opposite direction).

Took the opportunity to do this earlier this morning, although I was sneered at by a passenger getting off at Monument who upon seeing me waiting by the doors told me not to board as it was terminating :roll:

Was slightly surprised (and impressed) that the onboard displays/announcements correctly reported the following station as Haymarket - my past experience with unusual journeys as a result of engineering works has been that they are switched off.

Slightly less impressed that my St James train was listed as a South Hylton train on the station display at Monument, and an Airport train at Haymarket.

Not sure if it's the same fault that other posters have seen, but I noted that both sets of doors at the A end of 4055 refused to unlock at Gateshead the other day, though I did see it not long after and they were working normally again.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Ooo we have an announcement for trains terminating at monument? I must admit I have also experienced the doors refusing to open issue, luckily it was only one of the buttons that did not work. This was 4088.

I've also been on a train where neither door button worked for me, however at the next station they worked perfectly fine.

 

[ModernRailways]

Ooo we have an announcement for trains terminating at monument?

We have an announcement for trains terminating at all stations on the network It just adds that the train terminates at the next station.

 

[MetroCar4058]

We have an announcement for trains terminating at all stations on the network It just adds that the train terminates at the next station.

Quite sophisticated shame it never works at Haymarket! Ahah; think the rarest I've heard was it being said at Kingston Park.

 

[QANN93]

Strangest thing I've ever seen on the way home today.

Taking the train home from newcastle today and on the front destination board I saw instead of it displaying the next station it was looping random mathematics.
What I mean by this is it would randomly loop through things such as "64x8" "21 0 12" "31%&9" and so on...never ever seen this before

 

[Paul_10]

Quite sophisticated shame it never works at Haymarket! Ahah; think the rarest I've heard was it being said at Kingston Park.

I think this only happens if the front destination display and the platform displays the same terminating station(lets say Haymarket). So basically if a platform display says Airport but infact its terminating at Haymarket because of engineering works then even if the driver changes the front destination to Haymarket, the PA's won't say this because the PA is thinking it will head to the Airport.