Catering Manager sacked for telling Passengers the truth

[martynbristow]

The standard has always been variable, but I'd agree that the ET is generally finding more in favour of employers than it ever used to. I'm sure that this is because employers are getting better at employment law (yeah right) and not for any other reason.

The main issue with the ET remains that the ET will not award reinstatement (they theoretically can, but the Devil will be skiing to work long before that happens). Even if you win the ET you still don't have a job, and compensation is usually based on you finding work again quickly.

Reinstatement isn't a very good idea unfortunately. If someone sacked you and your forced to take them back are they going to do so with open arms willingly?
There was a case against Santander a while ago on the ground of racial profiling for redundancy that ended with a reinstatement that never happened.
Its not right but well ...

 

[Carlisle]

Reinstatement isn't a very good idea unfortunately. If someone sacked you and your forced to take them back are they going to do so with open arms willingly?
There was a case against Santander a while ago on the ground of racial profiling for redundancy that ended with a reinstatement that never happened.
Its not right but well ...

On the railway it used to happen in BR times when it was fairly simple to re deploy someone to a different department of some kind not too far off their original workplace but as you say rarely if ever happens now

 

[martynbristow]

On the railway it used to happen in BR times when it was fairly simple to re deploy someone to a different department of some kind not too far off their original workplace but as you say rarely if ever happens now

Yes you can do this but I don't see this working here. Once you've gone to tribunal you've attracted enough attention to get a reputation. There is a *us* *them* problem in a lot of places. I hope a suitable solution is reached, but I guess management don't want to back down.

 

[oldman]

From RMT yesterday:

I am pleased to advise you that the dispute has now been resolved as Brother Doughty has reached a satisfactory settlement agreement with the company. As a result, all industrial action called for Monday 4th May 2015 has been suspended and members must work normally!

 

[Clip]

Disruptive as it will be, Im with them all the way here. Us paying pax deserve the truth

Actually you don't. You have no right to know the ins and outs of internal issues within a company that you may use - even if you complain about one of them.

Seems the outcome has pleased all here and I hope the staff member can get back to work without any further issues from up top.

So do some posters still think that Vtec had a hand in his dismissal when still EC?

 

[Carlisle]

Actually you don't. You have no right to know the ins and outs of internal issues within a company that you may use - even if you complain about one of them.

Seems the outcome has pleased all here and I hope the staff member can get back to work without any further issues from up top.

So do some posters still think that Vtec had a hand in his dismissal when still EC?

It doesn't say anything about the type of settlement reached , but as you say ,glad the outcome pleased all

 

[oldman]

Seems the outcome has pleased all here and I hope the staff member can get back to work without any further issues from up top.

I have no information, but if he was returning to work I think RMT would say so rather than talk about satisfactory settlement agreement. I doubt if the employer was pleased by the outcome, but decided it was the best way forward.

 

[Clip]

I am sure they are limited in what they can actually say legally but as I said seems everyone is happy.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Seems the outcome has pleased all here and I hope the staff member can get back to work without any further issues from up top.

It doesn't sound like he's going back to work to me, it sounds like he's been paid off with a confidential compromise agreement.

So do some posters still think that Vtec had a hand in his dismissal when still EC?

Yes.

 

[martynbristow]

Actually you don't. You have no right to know the ins and outs of internal issues within a company that you may use - even if you complain about one of them.

Seems the outcome has pleased all here and I hope the staff member can get back to work without any further issues from up top.

So do some posters still think that Vtec had a hand in his dismissal when still EC?

You don't have the right to know especially specific details but as a valued and respected customer you should be told the truth, maybe not the whole truth but not a lie.
I had this argument with my gym, they can't understand why people are annoyed when classes get cancelled out of the blue. They kept saying ohh it's just not on ... It'll be sorted tomorrow, only for it to repeat. It's very insulting to be lied to and deceived.

 

[Chrism20]

I have no information, but if he was returning to work I think RMT would say so rather than talk about satisfactory settlement agreement. I doubt if the employer was pleased by the outcome, but decided it was the best way forward.

It doesn't sound like he's going back to work to me, it sounds like he's been paid off with a confidential compromise agreement.

With a doubt the union would play (and rightly so) the fact he had been reinstated and that the company had acknowledged they had made a mistake etc etc.

Arctic will be pretty much spot on and it will be a CA which we will never know the outcome.

That does however tell you that there was likely more than one material error in the procedure that was followed when dismissing him.

We'll never know the full story but it's good that some agreement has been reached.

 

[Clip]

You don't have the right to know especially specific details but as a valued and respected customer you should be told the truth, maybe not the whole truth but not a lie.
I had this argument with my gym, they can't understand why people are annoyed when classes get cancelled out of the blue. They kept saying ohh it's just not on ... It'll be sorted tomorrow, only for it to repeat. It's very insulting to be lied to and deceived.

Being told why a class is cancelled is totally different from wanting to know why someone was dismissed and wanting to know the outcome of internal HR issues - would you want everyone of your customers know ing about your business in your place of work?

@AC - yeah take your point on that more now as I have read it again.

 

[broadgage]

I have no information, but if he was returning to work I think RMT would say so rather than talk about satisfactory settlement agreement. I doubt if the employer was pleased by the outcome, but decided it was the best way forward.

"Settlement agreement" often means a particular type of legal agreement between employer and employee. Such an agreement invariably means a payment to the employee, in return for which they agree to accept termination of employment and not to take legal action against the former employer.

Each side also agrees not to publicly criticise the other, nor to reveal any other details.

I consider it very likely that in this case that such a settlement agreement has been signed. In which case we SHOULD hear no more on the subject from either side, beyond a simple statement along the lines of "the matter has been settled and is now regarded as closed"

 

[martynbristow]

Being told why a class is cancelled is totally different from wanting to know why someone was dismissed and wanting to know the outcome of internal HR issues - would you want everyone of your customers know ing about your business in your place of work?

@AC - yeah take your point on that more now as I have read it again.

I was referring to the original point of should he have been honest with the passengers.
The details of the settlement should remain private for all involved

 

[Geezertronic]

I am pleased to advise you that the dispute has now been resolved as Brother Doughty has reached a satisfactory settlement agreement with the company. As a result, all industrial action called for Monday 4th May 2015 has been suspended and members must work normally!

My bold, is the guys name really Brother or was the RMT press release written by a cult member?

 

[A-driver]

My bold, is the guys name really Brother or was the RMT press release written by a cult member?

Trade union terminology is that members are brothers. Hardly a big deal. And no different, on the other side of the spectrum, to masons. And many workforces refer to each other as brother or similar.

Perhaps stop trying to find anything at all to criticise when it comes to unions...

 

[neilmc]

I was referring to the original point of should he have been honest with the passengers.
The details of the settlement should remain private for all involved

If I'd been treated like dirt, harassed and bullied then, yes, I would quite like my company's customers to know every little detail.

But equally if the company turned round and offered me large sums of hush money, well who knows I might be tempted.

Personally I think that if reinstatement isn't an option the company should be made to pay the employee's entire projected salary until normal retirement date, plus the tax and national insurance contributions potentially lost to the government, plus a substantial fee in damages for blackening the employee's previous good name. A lost ET case should cost them up to hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

[Qwerty133]

If I'd been treated like dirt, harassed and bullied then, yes, I would quite like my company's customers to know every little detail.

But equally if the company turned round and offered me large sums of hush money, well who knows I might be tempted.

Personally I think that if reinstatement isn't an option the company should be made to pay the employee's entire projected salary until normal retirement date, plus the tax and national insurance contributions potentially lost to the government, plus a substantial fee in damages for blackening the employee's previous good name. A lost ET case should cost them up to hundreds of thousands of pounds.

so let's use a 18 year old working for a local independent shop, on a wage of £7 per hour, and working 30 hours a week, and a projected retirement age of 68, where would you expect a small business to find the required £546,000 from, and that's without considering that pay would significantly increase Over the 50 years

 

[Smudger105e]

so let's use a 18 year old working for a local independent shop, on a wage of £7 per hour, and working 30 hours a week, and a projected retirement age of 68, where would you expect a small business to find the required £546,000 from, and that's without considering that pay would significantly increase Over the 50 years

If that's the case, then the Company could simply re engage the member of staff. It is their choice.

 

[martynbristow]

so let's use a 18 year old working for a local independent shop, on a wage of £7 per hour, and working 30 hours a week, and a projected retirement age of 68, where would you expect a small business to find the required £546,000 from, and that's without considering that pay would significantly increase Over the 50 years

I think paying them something until alternative employment is found would be more sensible and realistic. It should be more than redundancy because there is a clear fault but a lifetime pay is silly! We don't know the exact nature but if management are going to target him potentially in future moving to a more suitable job is sensible.

 

[Geezertronic]

Trade union terminology is that members are brothers. Hardly a big deal. And no different, on the other side of the spectrum, to masons. And many workforces refer to each other as brother or similar.

Perhaps stop trying to find anything at all to criticise when it comes to unions...

Maybe you should stop looking at everything as a criticism of unions as there is nothing in my post that is critical towards any union. I've been a private sector worker all my life, have never been a union member, and have never encountered that terminology in 25 years of working

 

[Smudger105e]

Brother or Comrade are the most often used terms for fellow TU members.

 

[D1009]

Brother or Comrade are the most often used terms for fellow TU members.

That may be true, but many people will regard use of such terms in press releases as provocative.

 

[A-driver]

That may be true, but many people will regard use of such terms in press releases as provocative.

Why? It's no different to saying colleague or friend or team mate etc

 

[ainsworth74]

Why? It's no different to saying colleague or friend or team mate etc

I agree. To me it's very odd as I would never refer to a colleague as anything other than a colleague or friend but I don't think it's provocative. I think the worst that can be levelled against it is that it feels like a somewhat old fashioned way of referring to a work colleague.

 

[A-driver]

I agree. To me it's very odd as I would never refer to a colleague as anything other than a colleague or friend but I don't think it's provocative. I think the worst that can be levelled against it is that it feels like a somewhat old fashioned way of referring to a work colleague.

It's not so much a work colleague term but a union member term. A trade union is a group of workers willing to stand up for each other and stand together to better their working lives and protect their rights. In many ways it is seen as a brotherhood.

 

[D1009]

To me it evokes an era where unions generally had a lot more power than currently, and those who work in industries where unions are effectively excluded will find the terminology provocative.

 

[Jonfun]

Well, if they want to think it's provocative that's their choice, them getting themselves in a tizzy.

If the company had beef with the staff member and wanted them out then paying them off with a reference etc was the sensible course of action, not dragging the guy through the mud on disciplinary charges they knew wouldn't stick. By doing that all they've done is gained bad PR, worsened industrial relations and further beat down staff morale.

 

[bb21]

Are we really arguing over how a colleague should be addressed? Jesus!

 

[Darandio]

Are we really arguing over how a colleague should be addressed? Jesus!

I don't think that would be an appropriate way to refer to a colleague.