Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Mitch in Notts]

They experimented with on Swift last summer didn't they?

 

[ag51ruk]

They experimented with on Swift last summer didn't they?

They did, but ended up adding a Notts and Derby operated duplicate for two of the busiest journeys instead

 

[CallySleeper]

Stagecoach EM putting fares up from Monday.

 

[MCR247]

They experimented with on Swift last summer didn't they?

I think it was the summer before, but yes they did

 

[WillPS]

They did, but ended up adding a Notts and Derby operated duplicate for two of the busiest journeys instead

How did that work for passengers with Mango cards?

 

[MCR247]

Do some N&D buses have mango readers on as I'm sure I remember using my mango on a N&D dart on an i4 duplicate

EDIT: just realised that whilst the dart was in N&D livery it had "helping out at Trent Barton" branding on so that'll be why it had the machines fitted

 

[tbone]

Swift decker was January 2012- time flies!!

The N&D dupes don't accept Mango, when i used one it was a free trip with mine.

They're not very popular given they are the older members of the N&D fleet that go onto school buses. Bit of a downgrade compared to the branded volvos!

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Evening service withdrawn on the Y1 & Y3 from the 24th May.
Sunday service curtailed to Derby to Heanor only. This is surprising as at 4pm last Sunday afternoon I know at least 5 people boarded the Y1 from Eastwood & Langley Mill as I was on the virtually empty Rainbow 1 in front of it...

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Evening service withdrawn on the Y1 & Y3 from the 24th May.
Sunday service curtailed to Derby to Heanor only. This is surprising as at 4pm last Sunday afternoon I know at least 5 people boarded the Y1 from Eastwood & Langley Mill as I was on the virtually empty Rainbow 1 in front of it...

Monday to Thursday this will leave Ilkeston with a very restricted service to Derby after the last IF at 19:45 - only the few recently reinstated evening buses on the 11. A poor deal for the third largest town in Derbyshire!

 

[tbone]

The I4 route is set to increase to every 7/8 minutes during the day and every 5 in the peak.

The future of route 18 is being discussed given the tram soon coming to Beeston. One paper (wrongly) claimed that the route was definitely being scrapped. Trent have clarified by saying they are considering the future of the route, wi one option being a Ryelands- Sandiacre service connecting with Indigo/ the tram.

 

[ALIEN14247]

The Y28 is also having it's evening service withdrawn on all days.....

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Is this the beginning of the end? Surely the Y28 is partly aimed at students, for which I would have thought an evening service was essential?
Suppose that will leave them the Y5 & Y36 to concentrate on promoting just one corridor.

 

[ALIEN14247]

The last few journeys on Sunday nights are also being withdrawn on Y36.

With regards to TB service 18, I believe a couple of the buses have already been painted into other liveries.

Versas on Calverton Connection anybody?

 

[Pe251lz]

The future of route 18 is being discussed given the tram soon coming to Beeston. One paper (wrongly) claimed that the route was definitely being scrapped. Trent have clarified by saying they are considering the future of the route, wi one option being a Ryelands- Sandiacre service connecting with Indigo/ the tram.

From TrentBarton:- With the upcoming developments in Beeston and the introduction of the tram, we are taking steps to review our entire network in and around Beeston.

Although no final decision has been made, ROUTE 18 may be developed and one option we have been exploring includes running from the Rylands to Beeston and Stapleford integrating with buses and trams to Nottingham at the new Beeston interchange.

Should this option be used all areas currently served will continue to be served, although some people may need to connect for onward travel.

Any changes we make will be in the best interests for the majority of our customers and ensure future viability of our services for the communities we serve.

At this moment in time no changes have been registered and nothing is set in stone.

We will continue to update you as things develop.

For now it looks like only the Rylands-QMC-Nottingham portion to be withdrawn. My guess would be to terminate at Lilac Grove/Padge (Boots) Bridge
So the first Tram casualties are coming in & it's not started yet! Next Yourbus & Y36...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Further information from TrentBarton regarding historic route 18 & analysis from a local councillor:-

"No 18 Bus

I have had confirmation from Trentbarton that they intend to drastically alter the 18 bus service. The email received is as below:
Hi Steve,

We are planning on making significant changes to route 18 but this doesn’t involve its complete withdrawal.

Lessons from Line 1 in Hucknall together with current customer trends and future predictions have led us to conclude that route 18 will not be sustainable between Beeston Rylands and the city, even if the current level of patronage were to continue from the Rylands area it would be insufficient to cover the cost of operation. It is inconceivable that we won’t lose trade to the Tram from elsewhere along the route both into Beeston and between Beeston and Nottingham which does not help the cause for this service.

Route 18 has not been a strong performing route for quite some time now and operates on a very slim margin. The introduction of the Tram will turn this into a loss making service and this is why we want to make changes to accommodate as many of the current customer journeys as possible. Our analysis shows that around 70% of current journeys can be accommodated by turning the 18 into a Stapleford-Beeston-Rylands service only, this will cater for all local journeys and will also provide connections to the Tram along route and at Beeston itself.

We anticipate the changes to come into effect in conjunction with the Tram introduction of service.

My thoughts:
* There is no doubt that the service has been poor as far as punctuality is concerned and most of this is due to traffic issues between Nottingham and Beeston, tramworks being largely (but not entirely) to blame. That will get easier. However truncating the service will lead to a more reliable service into Beeston (this is the only plus I can think of):
* Reliability compared to the train is a big factor in reducing patronage. They need to get this up.
* I don't accept that the tram will significantly impact on revenue for this route which serves the Rylands and Derby Road; different markets to the tram which serves Beeston Town Centre QMC, NG2 etc. Few people currently catch the 18 from Beeston Town Centre to the QMC or the City.
* This is being used as an excuse by Trentbarton to rationalise and concentrate resources to directly compete with the tram. This policy is doomed to failure.
* I have immediately responded to Trentbarton, disagreeing with their analysis and I've also contacted Yourbus to see if they would be interested in taking over the route

 

[MCR247]

l

* This is being used as an excuse by Trentbarton to rationalise and concentrate resources to directly compete with the tram. This policy is doomed to failure.

Right, so TB want to compete with the tram, when their parent company is part of the consortium running it? Remind me whos analysis is flawed again...

 

[Pe251lz]

Right, so TB want to compete with the tram, when their parent company is part of the consortium running it? Remind me whos analysis is flawed again...

I don't know lol. One thing I can't see is no service through Bramcote Village, the service is to well used. Even if reduced down to hourly it'll remain in some form. People won't like a tram service upto Bardills & faff about with a "connect" into Stapleford which in theory could happen. It wouldn't surprise me to see a "connect" from Toton Ln along New Eatons Rd, Down Brookhill, through the town & doing a loop along Pasture Rd, Melbourne Rd, Hickings Ln back to the tram stop then on to do some kind of Toton Connect.
I can understand their thinking behind curtailing the Rylands-Nottingham section. A similar Hucknall connect springs to mind. It's not what people like though, "Beeston Rylands" connect will reduce public transport usage towards the city not encourage. Others will simply switch to the train rather than connecting at Beeston.
This might be also part of this rumour I've heard regarding no terminating services at Beeston interchange & all Indigo's going to LE at a five minute frequency....

 

[Urobach]

New timetables now available for the Red Arrow split on derbysbus - a notable additional stop on the Chesterfield run for this forum is the Midland Railway Centre in Butterley

Additionally from the same date, indigo reverts to every 6/7 minutes to Long Eaton

http://www.derbysbus.info/

 

[howittpie]

It appears the 18 is not going to be changed after all. According to the Evening Post site there had been a petition that helped sway that decision.

 

[tbone]

The current Wrightbus Solars are being replaced with (refurbished) Optare Solos, however.

 

[CallySleeper]

So they getting rid of those ones, and the ones on the pronto of the same age... Just another paint job and wifi, while stagecoach introduce new buses twice in the six years since.

I'm sorry it might be jealousy or a very high demand, but I'm really starting to loose it now with TB and 609-12. They've been on r5 and now pronto, for constant 12+hrs most days for the last six years. So they've not had an easy life as can be seen inside and beneath the paint job. All I'll say is the TB-Stagecoach relationship dynamic is clear for all to see, and it's disappointing frankly to say the least.

 

[Deerfold]

So they getting rid of those ones, and the ones on the pronto of the same age... Just another paint job and wifi, while stagecoach introduce new buses twice in the six years since.

I'm sorry it might be jealousy or a very high demand, but I'm really starting to loose it now with TB and 609-12. They've been on r5 and now pronto, for constant 12+hrs most days for the last six years. So they've not had an easy life as can be seen inside and beneath the paint job. All I'll say is the TB-Stagecoach relationship dynamic is clear for all to see, and it's disappointing frankly to say the least.

What might be jealousy or high demand? Do you mean "lose it"?

I think you'll have to explain what you mean - what is the "TB-Stagecoach relationship dynamic"? Are you simply trying to say that the buses TB use on pronto are of poorer quality than Stagecoach use?

I have to say I've not caught pronto for many years as TB seem to think it's the only premium service that deserves to not be valid on a zig zag which is disappointing.

 

[WillPS]

I have to say I've not caught pronto for many years as TB seem to think it's the only premium service that deserves to not be valid on a zig zag which is disappointing.

I think that's down to the joint route agreement with Stagecoach; it used to be true that Stagecoach Explorer tickets couldn't be used as well.

 

[howittpie]

Was given a flyer when boarding NCT 36 service. This morning called Hello Stranger it had voucher for free single towards the City and a 25% voucher off a single journey also informed me that the service is staying at the same frequency even after the tram opens.

 

[gordonthemoron]

since the 36 goes up Derby Road and is actually closer to the University Halls of Residence, that's hardly surprising

 

[Deerfold]

since the 36 goes up Derby Road and is actually closer to the University Halls of Residence, that's hardly surprising

Though they did halve the frequency west of Beeston Bus station during much of the tram works - they could have gone back to that as at least half of that section of the route follows the tram line.

 

[MCR247]

They probably would've if it wasn't for the Y36

 

[Deerfold]

They probably would've if it wasn't for the Y36

They've just announced it's to be halved again from the end of May during the next set of tram works.

 

[MCR247]

It has been very unreliable recently to be fair to them

 

[nottinghamcity]

The NCT announcement cites the changes being due to remedial works to the tramway, and yet the infrastructure seems complete, and testing is well underway in Beeston. I wonder what requires the remediation?

 

[howittpie]

From 24th may the last few y36 journeys are withdrawn the last bus is now 22.30bfrom City.