Scotrail Turbostars moving to Southern

[Rich McLean]

I thought IEP`s had to have a 140 mph capacity with electric and 125 with "self power" ?

That is not the case, as on the routes they will be employed on, for off the wires work, they will not be required to exceed 110mph due to line speed in those area's.

They were spec'd this way as the engines were only intended to be used for extensions to off the wires destinations where line speed would be 110mph or under. This is down to various factors with providing hotel power, weight of each carriage and engine bhp at flywheel, which would determine power at rail.

Of course if electrification is late 110mph on 125mph sections would have to suffice for a short period of time

On the juice, top speed will be 140mph, but of course will not be able to exceed 125mph until ERTMS comes into play.

A little research will provide the answers.

 

[387star]

Assuming "them" is the EMT HST sets, they are planned to be replaced by electric trains of unknown type, when electrification reaches Derby and Nottingham in 2019.

Yet another 2020-related bear trap awaits, as it isn't planned to modify these for accessibility compliance so there is no obvious solution to continued operation if electrification slips back.

The HSTs are perfectly good on services with fewer stops, but MML (as it then was) needed extra intercity-types stock to expand their services and replace the 170s which were too short and too slow for their semi-fasts. A Voyager derivative was the only suitable design available at the time.

They ordered an extra batch of longer meridians which were intended for a service the government never ended up funding

They were never a replacement for the HST but for 170s and new services... However The slack meant some HSTs were surplus to requirement

 

[IanXC]

Are we any closer to knowing which specific 170s are leaving ScotRail imminently?

 

[physics34]

Are we any closer to knowing which specific 170s are leaving ScotRail imminently?

well its 4 from 170 416–424, the eversholt units, thats all i know.

1 of them has been damaged when it hit a tree recently (421???)...

I assume they will travel down to selhurst on or around the 1st april.

Looking forward to meeting our new arrivals. Theywill be split into 2 and 4 cars as mentioned previously and will need some re-wiring as they dont "cross-feed" and an internal and external refresh.

The uckfield line platform extentions are just about to commence and im sure southern want the units in services as soon as. NO dates known though.

 

[Failed Unit]

It is 170432 that has upset the tree.

 

[scotraildriver]

It is 421 to 424. They have had DAS removed and cabs repainted.

 

[physics34]

It is 170432 that has upset the tree.

ok, ta for that
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It is 421 to 424. They have had DAS removed and cabs repainted.

strange that the DAS is being removed as southern are also going ahead with DAS and its ben installed into all our 171s.

Expecting 170421 - 424 to be renumbered 171731, 171732, 171807 and 171808

 

[IanXC]

It is 421 to 424. They have had DAS removed and cabs repainted.

Many thanks, just one for me to track down in the next few days!

 

[Southern Dvr]

170432 hit a tree between Keith & Elgin.

Could be seen outside Haymarket Depot last weekend.

 

[59CosG95]

DAS? Not sure on the terminology, I'm afraid.

Does anyone also know which 170s are forming which 171s (i.e. which of the 2 are having their centre trailers removed and put in the other two?)?

 

[Southern Dvr]

DAS? Not sure on the terminology, I'm afraid

Driver Advisory System

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will DASs eventually be superceeded by ETCS?

 

[edwin_m]

Driver Advisory System

And there I was thinking they'd filled all the dents with modelling clay...
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Will DASs eventually be superceeded by ETCS?

Sort of.

DAS monitors the running of the train against schedule and recommends when the driver can reduce power to save energy without running late. However it is self-contained and can't know whether there is a red signal up ahead or if there would be benefit in running a bit early to get to a junction ahead of another delayed train.

In principle, with extra information that might be provided to the train on top of ERTMS, a central system can optimise the speeds of all trains so they don't run fast and then have to wait at signals, but run more slowly so they arrive when there is a clear route through. I think this is some way off though, and nobody really knows how it might work in any detail.

 

[capital12]

Hi, have the four units mentioned been removed from traffic already or are they still likely to be in service early next week?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Scotrail84]

Hi, have the four units mentioned been removed from traffic already or are they still likely to be in service early next week?

Thanks in advance.

They were still in traffic two days ago if that helps.

 

[Failed Unit]

I saw 423 yesterday heading to Aberdeen. Still completely first branded.

 

[capital12]

Cheers for the replies.

Hoping to get up to Scotland on Tuesday to get 170423 so hopefully will still be around then!

 

[physics34]

Seeing as they are ours from midnight, has anyone heard when they are coming down?

 

[Scotrail84]

Seeing as they are ours from midnight, has anyone heard when they are coming down?

They are all booked to finish turns of duty up at Haymarket sheds by the close of service. I would imagine they be worked South in a 12 car convoy when there is a driver that can drive them and be route conducted down the ECML

 

[David Goddard]

So its happening then. Quite surprised it wasn't 393-396 though.

 

[SC318250]

170421/422/424 all at Haymarket

170423 is due to finish on 2330 Glasgow QS to Edinburgh arriving 0025

Not booked to Haymarket yet tho

 

[Techniquest]

Glad I didn't waste my effort going for those then since they'll be turned into 171s! Will be easier to get them as 171s on Southern than as 170s with ScotRail!

 

[physics34]

Thanks for the info. Ive heard there are issues with finding crew
to bring them down here.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Thanks for the info. Ive heard there are issues with finding crew
to bring them down here.

If that's the case, they won't be departing for a while.

From memory, the 170/4s were the Hull trains units? Is there any reason for these specific units?

Thanks,
Ross

 

[AndrewR232]

If that's the case, they won't be departing for a while.

From memory, the 170/4s were the Hull trains units? Is there any reason for these specific units?

Thanks,
Ross

I believe the ex-Hull units are 170393-170396...

 

[XCTurbostar]

I believe the ex-Hull units are 170393-170396...

Ahh right thanks for correcting me

Thanks,
Ross

 

[Scotrail84]

170421/422/424 all at Haymarket

170423 is due to finish on 2330 Glasgow QS to Edinburgh arriving 0025

Not booked to Haymarket yet tho

That's usually a shedder when it comes in.
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Thanks for the info. Ive heard there are issues with finding crew
to bring them down here.

No wonder. ScotRail men can't go south of Dunbar without route conductor and I doubt there's anyone at Newcastle who can drive a turbo unless they bring a Leeds man or a York man up to bring them South.

 

[swt_passenger]

So its happening then.

Why would you think it might not happen?

It's clearly shown in the rolling stock lists within the franchise agreement, linked somewhere in the main Abellio Scotrail thread.

What I mean by this is that there are only 5 Eversholt owned 170s shown in use at Dec 15, rather than the 9 that were in use up until yesterday. These 5 remaining are off lease 31 Mar 2018.

 

[SC318250]

Probably be GBrf driver to bring south

 

[Chrisgr31]

Can't a Southern driver go and fetch them? There was one up there last weekend!

Incidentally if they came down the WCML there may be a Southern driver with route knowledge and Turbo qualifications to take over from Milton Keynes.