BBC Wales (X-Ray) Report on ATW.

[Envoy]

The BBC Wales X-ray programme has done a report on the service provided by ATW in south-east Wales. It is on the i-player and is the first item (lasting 10 minutes):> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05n7skj

Episode 16 Series 14

Showing as part of the BBC Wales Real Valleys season, X-Ray investigates one of the region's lifelines - its train service. We'll be speaking to customers about their experiences of the daily commute to work in the city. And we'll be finding out why customer satisfaction has fallen. Rachel will be in Prestatyn where a decorated war hero has lost all his possessions after a mix-up with a storage company. And - back in the Valleys - Rhodri gets some advice for a motocross enthusiast who fell foul of one of a new generation of swapping websites - and ended up thousands out of pocket.

 

[Greenback]

X-Ray and south east Wales, whatever next?

 

[CC 72100]

One of the major issues is overcrowding in peak periods.

It's standing room only on rush-hour services.

Right..... has south wales just discovered commuting?

 

[Envoy]

X-Ray and south east Wales, whatever next?

You will have to get X-ray to do a report on overcrowding through Llanelli!

The situation in many parts of Britain is now surely in crises. The electrification process that is now taking place should surely have started when Blair was in power? Unfortunately, it is companies like ATW & FGW that get all the blame from the travelling public.

Mainline services to/from south Wales are also suffering badly due to the lack of rolling stock. 2 coach Coradias (175's) going to Manchester & 2 coach Turbostars (170's) hourly on the Cardiff > Birmingham > Nottingham route is completely inadequate. (It is bad enough when 3 car units are provided). I have even seen a 2 coach 150 Sprinter being used recently on the Cardiff > Portsmouth run.

The result of these overcrowding issues that many people prefer to travel by car rather than risk unpleasant train journeys.

 

[SPADTrap]

Thanks for that, interesting watch!

Arriva Trains Fails..oh dear!

 

[CC 72100]

Arriva Trains Fails..oh dear!

Which means that a 'Arriva Trains Wales Good and Bad Discussion' thread will have to appear sooner or later

 

[SPADTrap]

Which means that a 'Arriva Trains Wales Good and Bad Discussion' thread will have to appear sooner or later

Hahaha! I almost want to create one!

 

[Bodiddly]

Wow! What a scoop! Overcrowding at peak times, who would have thought this was unique to South Wales. I thought standing room only was the norm on pre 09.00 services all around the country!
On a serious note though, season ticket holders do get a bit of a rough deal on compensation issues.

 

[iantherev]

Without wishing to minimise the current situation I recall six car suburban DMUs full and standing on the Rhymney line in the 1970s so it's been around before.

 

[gareth950]

I notice this program didn't mention services to Barry Island and Bridgend via Barry which are just as bad as services on the 'Valleys'.

Peak time services on the Valley lines need to be at least triple Pacers or double Sprinters. The worst line south of Cardiff is Bridgend via Barry, which is literally crush loaded arriving into Cardiff at 8:40 in the morning and at 5:40 leaving Cardiff in return in the evenings. It's never more than 2 carriages either.

Lynne Milligan mentioned "there won't be any more trains available until 2017", I presume she's referring to the Turbos that will be freed up by Crossrail, which will in turn free up FGW's Pacers and Sprinters. ATW haven't been promised any cascaded FGW stock though have they?

 

[Flamingo]

I'd say the loading on the above-mentioned trains would be comparable with a tube in London at the same time, for similar length journeys...

 

[Parallel]

I think the issue in the valleys is that Arriva Trains Wales as a whole are really stretched for units, and with a service on some lines up to every 10 minutes in the valleys, one 10 minute delay can just cause knock on delays to the trains behind. Not to mention, if there is a large delay or a train fault elsewhere near Cardiff, 150s will get taken off valley line services, with doubled pacers splitting to cover two diagrams.

Obviously, peak time crowding isn't exclusive to the valleys - it's an issue nationally, but there's no good in saying "passengers choose to travel on these trains" when a lot of people don't actually have a choice, and with the risk that the next train may be even busier.

FGW's west fleet (Especially around Bristol and Exeter) is similar, the stock looks like it's seen minimum investment for decades (The 143s with FGW have had a decent refurb however) with chronic overcrowding (even at some "off peak" times), it's no doubt commuters are saying not enough's being done. I'm half enthusiast and half commuter, and I can see things from both sides. The 16:41 Gloucester - Weymouth was shortformed again today with only 1 x 150 rather than 2, and the train was very full between Bristol and Westbury, but a lot of commuters need to understand that TOCs aren't trying to inconvenience them.

IMO forget getting a seat, the first thing we need to do is try and make sure that very few passengers get left on the platforms having been unable to board services, cascaded stock from electrification programmes will help with this. With the demand for railway travel continuing to rise, we really need, as a nation, to do something to meet this demand. More trains are needed for sure.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think the issue in the valleys is that Arriva Trains Wales as a whole are really stretched for units, and with a service on some lines up to every 10 minutes in the valleys, one 10 minute delay can just cause knock on delays to the trains behind. Not to mention, if there is a large delay or a train fault elsewhere near Cardiff, 150s will get taken off valley line services, with doubled pacers splitting to cover two diagrams.

Obviously, peak time crowding isn't exclusive to the valleys - it's an issue nationally, but there's no good in saying "passengers choose to travel on these trains" when a lot of people don't actually have a choice, and with the risk that the next train may be even busier.

FGW's west fleet (Especially around Bristol and Exeter) is similar, the stock looks like it's seen minimum investment for decades (The 143s with FGW have had a decent refurb however) with chronic overcrowding (even at some "off peak" times), it's no doubt commuters are saying not enough's being done. I'm half enthusiast and half commuter, and I can see things from both sides. The 16:41 Gloucester - Weymouth was shortformed again today with only 1 x 150 rather than 2, and the train was very full between Bristol and Westbury, but a lot of commuters need to understand that TOCs aren't trying to inconvenience them.

IMO forget getting a seat, the first thing we need to do is try and make sure that very few passengers get left on the platforms having been unable to board services, cascaded stock from electrification programmes will help with this. With the demand for railway travel continuing to rise, we really need, as a nation, to do something to meet this demand. More trains are needed for sure.

Saturday ? 16 41 Gloucester to Weymouth not short formed, only booked 1x150

 

[Envoy]

I notice this program didn't mention services to Barry Island and Bridgend via Barry which are just as bad as services on the 'Valleys'.

Peak time services on the Valley lines need to be at least triple Pacers or double Sprinters. The worst line south of Cardiff is Bridgend via Barry, which is literally crush loaded arriving into Cardiff at 8:40 in the morning and at 5:40 leaving Cardiff in return in the evenings. It's never more than 2 carriages either.

Perhaps the buses that the Welsh Government fund to run often empty from Cardiff Airport to the City centre via the Bay could run from Rhoose station instead to bring some relief to overcrowded peak time trains!

 

[Greenback]

You will have to get X-ray to do a report on overcrowding through Llanelli!

I hear the very first HoW train is so busy that people have to travel on the roof!

Seriously, trains through Llanelli at peak times are very busy, it's rare to get a seat on 1705 off Swansea, and the morning HST is pretty busy, but, of course, it's but it's not as bad as other parts of the network.

It's just that BBC Wales is so Cardiff centric, it's a shame that they can't look at other parts of the network and see that there are problems all over Wales on certain trains and at certain times.

The situation in many parts of Britain is now surely in crises. The electrification process that is now taking place should surely have started when Blair was in power? Unfortunately, it is companies like ATW & FGW that get all the blame from the travelling public.

And that, of course, is why no government will ever take responsibility for the railways again through nationalisation! It's ideal at the moment. Governments have a lot of power over the industry but the majority of passengers don't know or care about that and blame the operators.

The popularity of rail travel is now so much that there are overcrowding problems everywhere. Mrs G hates travelling by train in the UK and does it with gritted teeth because she'd rather not drive. When she goes abroad she loves the bigger and longer trains!

(Yes, I know we can't do anything about the loading gauge!)

Wow! What a scoop! Overcrowding at peak times, who would have thought this was unique to South Wales. I thought standing room only was the norm on pre 09.00 services all around the country!
On a serious note though, season ticket holders do get a bit of a rough deal on compensation issues.

I'm afraid that BBC Wales's treatment of this issue is exactly how they treat everything. It's a very parochial outlook with no real sense of what is happening elsewhere.

I notice this program didn't mention services to Barry Island and Bridgend via Barry which are just as bad as services on the 'Valleys'.

Most railway enthusiasts will realise that Bridgend and Barry are intrinsic tot he 'Valley Lines' network. BBC Wales has taken a more geographical view, by the sounds of it!

Peak time services on the Valley lines need to be at least triple Pacers or double Sprinters. The worst line south of Cardiff is Bridgend via Barry, which is literally crush loaded arriving into Cardiff at 8:40 in the morning and at 5:40 leaving Cardiff in return in the evenings. It's never more than 2 carriages either.

I've travelled on those trains and so has a friend of mine who commutes daily into Cardiff from Cadoxton. They are pretty bad!

 

[al.currie93]

I hear the very first HoW train is so busy that people have to travel on the roof!

Seriously, trains through Llanelli at peak times are very busy, it's rare to get a seat on 1705 off Swansea, and the morning HST is pretty busy, but, of course, it's but it's not as bad as other parts of the network.

It's just that BBC Wales is so Cardiff centric, it's a shame that they can't look at other parts of the network and see that there are problems all over Wales on certain trains and at certain times.



And that, of course, is why no government will ever take responsibility for the railways again through nationalisation! It's ideal at the moment. Governments have a lot of power over the industry but the majority of passengers don't know or care about that and blame the operators.

The popularity of rail travel is now so much that there are overcrowding problems everywhere. Mrs G hates travelling by train in the UK and does it with gritted teeth because she'd rather not drive. When she goes abroad she loves the bigger and longer trains!

(Yes, I know we can't do anything about the loading gauge!)



I'm afraid that BBC Wales's treatment of this issue is exactly how they treat everything. It's a very parochial outlook with no real sense of what is happening elsewhere.



Most railway enthusiasts will realise that Bridgend and Barry are intrinsic tot he 'Valley Lines' network. BBC Wales has taken a more geographical view, by the sounds of it!



I've travelled on those trains and so has a friend of mine who commutes daily into Cardiff from Cadoxton. They are pretty bad!

One of the best posts I've seen

 

[Greenback]

Why thank you very much, most kind!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Seen people standing on the 0514 from Aberystwyth between Welshpool and Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

I have to agree with Greenback,BBC Wales is too Cardiff biased ,other areas have overcrowding in Wales.

 

[PHILIPE]

What is happening with the overcrowding problem nationally is that supply hasn't met demand with the increase in passenger numbers. DFT keep saying with the electrification DMUs will be cascaded, in other words "Jam tomorrow". In effect, electrification projects keep on slipping so when tomorrow comes, it's still "jam tomorrow".

 

[swcovas]

Seen people standing on the 0514 from Aberystwyth between Welshpool and Shrewsbury.

I even had to stand on the 1821 HOWL train from Swansea as far as Ammanford one day last summer. Didn't seem to be any real reason for it like a large group travelling together and I'm not going to suggest this is a daily occurrence! From a footfall point of view it was actually quite good to see.

 

[Greenback]

I've seen overcrowding on the 1821 myself. Similarly, from what I could see, there wasn't a large single group, but as I was one of the few that got off at Llanelli (I'd missed the train ten or so minutes before that day due to being too slow finishing my beer!) I couldn't tell where everyone was going to!

Since then I vowed to avoid that train, and if I can't finish my pint in time for the earlier train, I'll have another one!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Dear me - Pontyclyn man pays £88 a month ! .........

(and how much would it cost to cost to drive and park in Cardiff ?)

Standing is culteral for most of the South east - some of those shots are akin to what i see every day - but , dare I say - fares are just a bit higher in my part of the world.

 

[Parallel]

Saturday ? 16 41 Gloucester to Weymouth not short formed, only booked 1x150

Ah, my apologies - The autoannouncement said it was formed of 4 coaches with two terminating at Westbury. Thanks for clearing this up.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Dear me - Pontyclyn man pays £88 a month ! .........

(and how much would it cost to cost to drive and park in Cardiff ?)

Standing is culteral for most of the South east - some of those shots are akin to what i see every day - but , dare I say - fares are just a bit higher in my part of the world.

I suspect it's BBC Wales staff in horror that there free car parking at Llandaff is to go when they relocate to Central Square where there's no car parking but Cardiff Central station right next to them!

 

[merlodlliw]

I suspect it's BBC Wales staff in horror that there free car parking at Llandaff is to go when they relocate to Central Square where there's no car parking but Cardiff Central station right next to them!

Knowing the BBC,they will pay for a block parking for staff,or reimburse them.

 

[Greenback]

I suspect it's BBC Wales staff in horror that there free car parking at Llandaff is to go when they relocate to Central Square where there's no car parking but Cardiff Central station right next to them!

That wouldn't surprise me, Gareth!

Knowing the BBC,they will pay for a block parking for staff,or reimburse them.

That wouldn't surprise me either, though it's not been the case with other organisations I know of who have relocate din Cardiff, even public sector ones. Free parking has disappeared there, as it was not a contractual right.

Still, it may just be the traditional Cardiff bias of the BBC in Wales. It's been so evident for decades, not just in its news and features but in the sports coverage as well.

Anyway, I'm sure the staff there will soon discover the joys of commuting by train and bus over driving. Many of them might even come to prefer it to driving along congested roads, constantly stopping at traffic lights and roundabouts. A peak time journey into Swansea from Llanelli can take around double the time of a run at a quieter time, largely due to queues at roundabouts and lights.

 

[Envoy]

The new BBC Wales HQ, to be built on the present bus station site, will have an underground car park - presumably for the big shots who do not wish to mix with the peasants on public transport! I guess that the reporters will also be having allocated spaces so they can drive out to stories. Wonder where they will keep all their vans?

 

[Greenback]

I expect you're right, and that the parking spaces will be kept for senior staff and those that need a vehicle for work. The presenters will also be included due to safety fears. The junior staff will be on public transport!

 

[merlodlliw]

That wouldn't surprise me, Gareth!



That wouldn't surprise me either, though it's not been the case with other organisations I know of who have relocate din Cardiff, even public sector ones. Free parking has disappeared there, as it was not a contractual right.

Still, it may just be the traditional Cardiff bias of the BBC in Wales. It's been so evident for decades, not just in its news and features but in the sports coverage as well.

Anyway, I'm sure the staff there will soon discover the joys of commuting by train and bus over driving. Many of them might even come to prefer it to driving along congested roads, constantly stopping at traffic lights and roundabouts. A peak time journey into Swansea from Llanelli can take around double the time of a run at a quieter time, largely due to queues at roundabouts and lights.

Getting into Wrexham at peak times takes double,sometimes treble the time,I always avoid 0730 to 0900,the A525 which I have to use,is awful.
Seems no end to it,anyhow back to the BBC,id guess the underground car park will be for bosses and directors,give me the train anytime,but I have to get to General Station first,many a time ive gone to Ruabon to catch my train to Chester when roads to Wrexham are gridlocked with commuters.