BBC Wales (X-Ray) Report on ATW.

[Phil from Mon]

Anyway, I'm sure the staff there will soon discover the joys of commuting by train and bus over driving. Many of them might even come to prefer it to driving along congested roads, constantly stopping at traffic lights and roundabouts. A peak time journey into Swansea from Llanelli can take around double the time of a run at a quieter time, largely due to queues at roundabouts and lights.

It's going to screw up their filming though! Abiding image of BBC Wales news and particularly current affairs is of clips of a driver filmed from the passenger seat

 

[swcovas]

I've seen overcrowding on the 1821 myself. Similarly, from what I could see, there wasn't a large single group, but as I was one of the few that got off at Llanelli (I'd missed the train ten or so minutes before that day due to being too slow finishing my beer!) I couldn't tell where everyone was going to!

Since then I vowed to avoid that train, and if I can't finish my pint in time for the earlier train, I'll have another one!

Interestingly whilst travelling on the HOWL in Feb I got chatting to the guard and couple of fellow passengers about the new tt. The guard told me that he and his colleagues reckoned that if the new morning service takes off then they will see an overcrowded 1821 in future. Bearing in mind your comments above maybe he has a point. Personally I wonder if the new early arrival may be a bit too early and the 1821 is still pretty late for commuters. I hope I am wrong on that count. I do think though that "new" mid morning arrivals in both Swansea and Salop should prove popular with day trippers/shoppers and it's a shame that they won't run on Saturdays.

This post sort of overlaps with the "Heart of Wales May 2015" thread running on the Allocations, Diagrams and Timetables section so I'm posting on both!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Lynne Milligan mentioned "there won't be any more trains available until 2017", I presume she's referring to the Turbos that will be freed up by Crossrail, which will in turn free up FGW's Pacers and Sprinters. ATW haven't been promised any cascaded FGW stock though have they?

That is an interesting point (probably the only one in the whole of that part of the programme), given ATW's no-growth franchise continues until 2018...

 

[merlodlliw]

I watched X Ray last evening,of the 30 minutes it was all South,a mention on BT told us a person in North West Wales was waiting long time for connection.

Little wonder we watch BBC 1 North West,

 

[WelshBluebird]

While I agree with some of the comments that have been made here basically saying that of course there is going to be overcrowding in peak periods, I can't help but feel the ATW person who spoke on the program totally missed the point.

People generally don't choose to board a packed commuter train. They do so because they have to get to work. For most people on these overcrowded services, they don't have a choice to travel at a different time of day (of course they do have the choice of where they live and work, but that is a totally different discussion). It just comes across as pretty poor from a customer service point of view.

Of course, the real issues are the lack of stock and the fact we have had no growth franchises despite in reality passenger numbers increasing.

 

[Greenback]

BBC Wales should rebrand itself BBC Cardiff and the Valleys!

My mate works flexi time, so he can choose what trains he catches to a certain extent. But he tells me that all of the trains in the morning are busy.

The point is really that overcrowding at peak times is an issue not only across the UK, but across Wales, it isn't just limited to routes from the Valleys into Cardiff. Trains from Bridgend are rammed too, and it's lucky that we in Llanelli have a choice of 4 trains to give and arrival in Swansea between 0820 and 0920. Without the capacity provided by the HST and the other three trains, we'd be in a much worse state than we are. When the FGW service is cancelled, it's time to play sardines, and I used to wait for a slightly later service to avoid the worst of the crush.

 

[gareth950]

That is an interesting point (probably the only one in the whole of that part of the programme), given ATW's no-growth franchise continues until 2018...

When asked the direct question by Lucy Owen "Does this mean you haven't planned for the increase in the number of people using trains though?", Lynne Milligan replies "We operate a rail franchise that was let in 2003 and the contract set out the number of trains that we were able to have". So in other words, no we haven't planned for an increase in passenger numbers as we have a no growth franchise!

I'm not an expert on how the rail franchising system works, but surely a franchise as big as ATW's couldn't have been let in 2003 with no option at all to cater for possible passenger growth over a 15 year period? If our private rail system works so well, the private companies operating our trains should be obliged to provide extra capacity should the need arise? If ATW was really committed to excellent passenger service they theoretically could finance extra DMUs themselves as FGW proposed yesterday?

Hopefully out of all of this, now that we know FGW will definitely be freeing up 143s, 150/1s and 153s ATW or probably the Welsh Government will bid for this extra stock to help Wales and the Valley lines through the delayed electrification process into the 2020s.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW treat the franchise spec as what they are contracted to do. Anything else and over and above will only be done if somebody else pays for it (Usually the Welsh Government).

 

[Gareth Marston]

ATW treat the franchise spec as what they are contracted to do. Anything else and over and above will only be done if somebody else pays for it (Usually the Welsh Government).

Hiding behind the franchise agreement its known as.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When asked the direct question by Lucy Owen "Does this mean you haven't planned for the increase in the number of people using trains though?", Lynne Milligan replies "We operate a rail franchise that was let in 2003 and the contract set out the number of trains that we were able to have". So in other words, no we haven't planned for an increase in passenger numbers as we have a no growth franchise!

I'm not an expert on how the rail franchising system works, but surely a franchise as big as ATW's couldn't have been let in 2003 with no option at all to cater for possible passenger growth over a 15 year period? If our private rail system works so well, the private companies operating our trains should be obliged to provide extra capacity should the need arise? If ATW was really committed to excellent passenger service they theoretically could finance extra DMUs themselves as FGW proposed yesterday?

Hopefully out of all of this, now that we know FGW will definitely be freeing up 143s, 150/1s and 153s ATW or probably the Welsh Government will bid for this extra stock to help Wales and the Valley lines through the delayed electrification process into the 2020s.

looks like the GW deal will let them flush out their Pacers and have some 150's over. I suspect the 150's will come to Wales to cover for Valleys electrification going past 2020 and the need to get rid of Pacers.

 

[deltic]

ATW treat the franchise spec as what they are contracted to do. Anything else and over and above will only be done if somebody else pays for it (Usually the Welsh Government).

what do you expect them to do - providing additional capacity for peak period traffic (assuming the rolling stock is available which it is isnt) is never going to stack up commercially.

 

[anthony263]

I have travelled on those trains as well. The peak hour services from Maesteg have been pretty busy as well. I have noticed our X7/X70 Cymmer/Maesteg - Cardiff has started to become popular with commuters living around the Sarn/Aberkenfig/Litchard area of Bridgend particulary with rail services being busy the same with the coach services.

There has been suggestions from Staff about running the service every 30 minutes as well as the routing those x2's which run between Bridgend & Porthcawl only to Cardiff but running via the M4 instead of Cowbridge & Culverhouse Cross/A48.

 

[gareth950]

Perhaps the buses that the Welsh Government fund to run often empty from Cardiff Airport to the City centre via the Bay could run from Rhoose station instead to bring some relief to overcrowded peak time trains!

Indeed, the T9 Cardiff Airport service is a colossal waste of money and I can think of many public services, including other than transport, that the money used to fund an empty bus to run back and forth between the airport and city centre 3 times an hour all day could go towards.
There are many other bus services in my locality that Cardiff Bus refuse to operate, so they are funded by the WG but they either run empty or with 1 or 2 people on board throughout the day.

If the WG cut these buses now maybe they could save up the money to invest in the rail network. :roll:

Lets hope Wales gets its hands on FGW cascaded stock before Northern does. After all they are promised new DMU's within a few years, the Valleys could still be using 1980s DMU's for another decade.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I'm not an expert on how the rail franchising system works, but surely a franchise as big as ATW's couldn't have been let in 2003 with no option at all to cater for possible passenger growth over a 15 year period? If our private rail system works so well, the private companies operating our trains should be obliged to provide extra capacity should the need arise? If ATW was really committed to excellent passenger service they theoretically could finance extra DMUs themselves as FGW proposed yesterday?

They could theoretically finance new-build DMUs or more hired-in LHCS themselves, but the no-growth franchise means they have no obligation to do so and there is no way the investment would be paid back in the remaining 3 years of the franchise. FirstGW's anoucement is on the back of a new franchise and the extra Intercity units require approval from DfT, who presumably will actually end up paying FirstGW extra to indirectly pay for the new stock. I've read on here (from a poster who generally seems to be in the know) that the Wales & Borders franchise was to allow expansion, at least one of the bidders even proposed Caernarfon-Bangor reopenning, but then the people in charge of franchising at the time decided that W&B and Northern would be no-growth.

Indeed, the T9 Cardiff Airport service is a colossal waste of money and I can think of many public services, including other than transport, that the money used to fund an empty bus to run back and forth between the airport and city centre 3 times an hour all day could go towards.
There are many other bus services in my locality that Cardiff Bus refuse to operate, so they are funded by the WG but they either run empty or with 1 or 2 people on board throughout the day.

If the WG cut these buses now maybe they could save up the money to invest in the rail network. :roll:

T9 has been reduced to every 30 minutes for the winter tabletable, I'm not sure if it's going back to every 20mins in the summer. The vehicles were to a high-spec intended for longer-distance routes, one being Carmarthen-Aberystwyth (TC1) and the other Cardiff-Newtown. Instead the TC1 (now known as just T1) has basically standard Enviro 200 and Enviro 300 buses. It's a mess.