Train v Plane, Glasgow-London

[berneyarms]

To go back to the OP's question, I would second comments made about using London City Airport - it's a dream compared to other London airports.

So to take a flight from Glasgow to London, I would suggest the following times would be relevant:
Glasgow City Centre-Airport - Allow 20 minutes
Glasgow Airport - Allow 60 minutes (90 if in the early morning peak) before flight
Glasgow Airport - London City Airport - 1 hour 20 minutes
London City Airport - Allow 20 minutes for bag collection and walk to DLR Station
London City Airport - Bank - Allow 25 minutes

That's a total of 3 hours 45 minutes with luggage (perhaps 4 hours 15 minutes in the morning peak).

With no luggage you could reduce that to 3 hours 30 minutes.

In the opposite direction, check-in times are much less at London City, and that will improve the journey times even more.

 

[Jonny]

I always go via train for Glasgow - London. Less hassle.

Get on, sit down, get off.

No taking shoes and belts off, being held at gates, security checks, travelling back into central London from whichever airport you fly to. Isn't much time in it but the convenience is the winner.

Also, take more than 100ml of drinking water from outside the station/airport onto the train; you aren't allowed that on a plane! I'm surprised that no railway marketing departments have picked up on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To go back to the OP's question, I would second comments made about using London City Airport - it's a dream compared to other London airports.

Has it calmed down a bit? Last time I used it it had expanded beyond its means and was horribly overcrowded.

In about 2005 it was a dream, though.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also, take more than 100ml of drinking water from outside the station/airport onto the train; you aren't allowed that on a plane! I'm surprised that no railway marketing departments have picked up on it.

Most people can stand a shorthaul flight without water. Some have a medical condition where that isn't the case, and the one I know in that position (she had oral cancer, and the treatment, while successful, killed the glands that make saliva) takes an empty bottle through and fills it up in the bogs.

And expensive coffee is expensive coffee, whether bought at a station, on a train, in a departure lounge or on an aircraft. Indeed, fly BA and it's free (as with First Class on a train).

Neil

 

[telstarbox]

Is it a fair comparison to say VT/EC Standard Class is similar to EasyJet and First Class is similar to BA, allowing for the shorter journey times in each case?

 

[berneyarms]

Has it calmed down a bit? Last time I used it it had expanded beyond its means and was horribly overcrowded.

In about 2005 it was a dream, though.

Neil

I passed through London City last week, and yes you are right, the departures area could do with a major expansion to cope with busy times. However, the ease of access via the DLR, location in zone 3 (minimising travel costs), and the quick throughput of passengers through security (two areas in operation) compensate for that.

Arriving (with hand luggage), I was in the DLR station 8 minutes after the aircraft door was opened and walked straight onto a DLR train.

Returning in the evening peak the terminal was very busy, but I had checked-in my bag (self-tagged) and processed at the bag drop 5 minutes after arriving, and through security 10 minutes later. I had time for a light meal in the restaurant while waiting for my flight, but would have been able to be at the departures gate if necessary within 15 minutes of arriving at the airport.

As others have said, ultimately which airport you use in London, depends upon where you are travelling to/from, but London City is hard to beat for central London locations.

 

[Clip]

The difference is there's no obligation to. You could arrive 3 mins before and make it... For Air, you have no choice as you have to clear security theatre first.

Check in closed at 60 mins to the flight, you're not getting on.

A flight is faster than a train, but with all the pfaffing about, its a tie on that route.


That email I quoted from was from a short haul flight

You also forget that on the link you posted it also says you can not bother queueing at all and check in online. So no need to be there so early.

also its a bit daft comparing the two on a railway forum where everyone will have a view that the railway will be best because they like trains!

 

[tony_mac]

You can also just book your flight when you get to the airport, so you don't need to wait around for hours for your specific departure.
I have recently booked a flight (using points), and taken-off within an hour.

That makes it effectively a walk-up service; the same-day airfares are quite reasonable from Gatwick (presumably due to competition).
One-ways today, for example start from £55 from Gatwick, £90 from LCY.

You may spend more time on the train, but that's all in one go, so I find it's easier to relax and/or get some work done (unless you have someone's armpit in your face the whole way...)

 

[Bletchleyite]

also its a bit daft comparing the two on a railway forum where everyone will have a view that the railway will be best because they like trains!

Some of us like trains and planes. Indeed, I enjoy most travel.

Neil

 

[Hornet]

also its a bit daft comparing the two on a railway forum where everyone will have a view that the railway will be best because they like trains!

Not really. After the appalling travel experiences I have had with FGW, XC, EMT, WC and ATW over the last two to three years, I actively choose air over rail for long distance travel. Far more reliable, civil staff, pleasant waiting environment, quicker end to end times, no inane and constant announcements, and as I travel a lot at weekends, no air replacement coaches! I've only had three significant delay's in the near on two thousand flights (all non business) I've made. Can't remember the last time it took me longer than five minutes to clear security.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Strange how in Australia i could take quite a few drinks bottles onboard Supermarket Water Bottles and a couple of 500ML V Energy Drinks and no one said anything i reckon this has changed after the attacks in Sydney and the Shooting of the Terrorist in Melb mind you in Aus you can also use Electronics during take off and Landing on Domestic Flights

When i flew with Tiger from Melbourne-Hobart i had 3 V's and a 1.25l Woolworths Water in my hand luggage along with 3 Electronic Carry ons

 

[misterredmist]

Hello All,me and my girlfriend are travelling upto Glasgow in June and our only decision is whether we'll go Virgin West or Virgin East - it would never enter our heads to go to Luton Airport ( 8 miles away ).

No check-in, no security, no carousel, no ID , no cramped cabin , no having to go into the airport business lounge as airport lounges are boring........ and, if you can get a first class option on the train, especially during the week, HEAVEN !!!!

 

[Agent_c]

Hello All,me and my girlfriend are travelling upto Glasgow in June and our only decision is whether we'll go Virgin West or Virgin East - it would never enter our heads to go to Luton Airport ( 8 miles away ).

No check-in, no security, no carousel, no ID , no cramped cabin , no having to go into the airport business lounge as airport lounges are boring........ and, if you can get a first class option on the train, especially during the week, HEAVEN !!!!

Don't forget Team Serco. All the advantages of the train, with the added advantage of not losing daylight hours.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes, I suppose LCY is really good. I always do check it out but on the dates BA is so expensive that it's not worth it.

I didn't realise until now that Flybe also flew these routes, but they use terrible propeller planes that are insanely noisy and considerably slower than jets.

I'm surprised Easyjet hasn't launched at LCY.

 

[najaB]

I didn't realise until now that Flybe also flew these routes, but they use terrible propeller planes that are insanely noisy and considerably slower than jets.

On stage lengths up to around 45 minutes, a turboprop will be on par with a jet. For example, Belfast City to Edinburgh (Flybe Q400) and Belfast International (Easyjet A320) to Edinburgh are both blocked at 50 minutes. Also, the Q400 has active noise suppression, which does a really good job of keeping the noise levels down.

I'm surprised Easyjet hasn't launched at LCY.

They don't have the aircraft, and I don't imagine they are interested in a sub-fleet that they can't move around to other routes.

 

[route:oxford]

Also, take more than 100ml of drinking water from outside the station/airport onto the train; you aren't allowed that on a plane! I'm surprised that no railway marketing departments have picked up on it.

A bottle of Brecon Careg from Boots at the airport is pretty much the same price as a bottle of Brecon Careg from the station or high street.

I'm not sure if Marketing departments of any transport organisation are keen on promoting the security checks they don't make.

Sadly no more, but I did enjoy taking Minoan Air from London Oxford Airport. It was terribly civilised to leave central Oxford and be outside Edinburgh Airport just over 2 hours later.

This was pre-tram. It actually took me longer to get from outside Edinburgh Airport to Stirling than it did from Central Oxford to Edinburgh.


Where the train fails the passenger is when they are travelling outwith the City to London route.

I'm at a meeting in Edinburgh next week. It will finish at around 17:30. I've got one chance to get the train at 17:31 from Waverley to get back to Oxford. Whereas there are 4 flights to Heathrow.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I'd instead suggest taking the sleeper. Walk up to Central around 11pm, go to sleep, wake up in London 6am-7am or so. No time "wasted" as you probably would have been sleeping anyway.

With limited space and the tendency for yard staff to use live sleeping cars for shunting practice you should add the need to get hammered or drop a few Temazepam in order to get any sleep. A few hours rest may be achieved by most average folk but UK sleeping cars (as with most in Europe) are the wrong way round to get a proper kip.

 

[najaB]

With limited space and the tendency for yard staff to use live sleeping cars for shunting practice you should add the need to get hammered or drop a few Temazepam in order to get any sleep. A few hours rest may be achieved by most average folk but UK sleeping cars (as with most in Europe) are the wrong way round to get a proper kip.

Again, different strokes for different folks - I nearly always get a decent night's sleep in a cabin. The only recent exception was when the heating seemed to be stuck on and the berth was way too hot.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Again, different strokes for different folks - I nearly always get a decent night's sleep in a cabin. The only recent exception was when the heating seemed to be stuck on and the berth was way too hot.

I find I can get a decent sleep when the berths are longitudinal (as in Australia, Canada and the US) as opposed to the transverse type we have here and in Europe. When the train brakes you are side on to the movement and more of your body is affected by it.

 

[IslandDweller]

If your destination / start point is Canary Wharf, the City, or somewhere on the Jubilee Line then air via LCY is very hard to beat. You don't need to check in stupidly early - in fact you can't check bags in more than 120 minutes ahead. For arrivals, runway to DLR in less than 10 mins is realistic with hand baggage, and hold bags won't take much longer.
Don't extrapolate the vileness of Luton and Stansted to City, it's very different.
To the earlier comment about Easyjet and LCY - it isn't going to happen. Only certain planes are certified for LCY, and the Airbus A319 / 320 (as used by easy) will never be certified.
Personally, I see the train / air break point at about four hours train time, and the central belt of Scotland (and further north) means my preference is air.

 

[Agent_c]

Again, different strokes for different folks - I nearly always get a decent night's sleep in a cabin. The only recent exception was when the heating seemed to be stuck on and the berth was way too hot.

I'd agree its not the greatest night sleep in the world, but its far from the worst I've had.

 

[po8crg]

Aren't the BA all-business class flights to JFK A319s from LCY?

Though I believe that they are specially modified to be able to fly from that airport.

 

[najaB]

Aren't the BA all-business class flights to JFK A319s from LCY?

I believe they are A318s.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hello All,me and my girlfriend are travelling upto Glasgow in June and our only decision is whether we'll go Virgin West or Virgin East - it would never enter our heads to go to Luton Airport ( 8 miles away ).

No check-in, no security, no carousel, no ID , no cramped cabin , no having to go into the airport business lounge as airport lounges are boring........ and, if you can get a first class option on the train, especially during the week, HEAVEN !!!!

Don't discount Luton - it has sharpened it's game considerably in the last 3 years. Rarely have to wait more than 2 mins at security on the way out, and on my last 3 trips the hold bags have beaten me to the carousel with less than a 5 min wait at passports.

My personal record for front door (15 miles from Luton) to Central Glasgow is a little under 3h.

 

[johnnychips]

They are A318s from London City to New York. They stop at Shannon on the way out so they can take off from City without much fuel, and while they are filling up, the passengers clear US immigration. As far as I know, they run nonstop on the way back.

I used to have a similar conundrum to the OP: Doncaster to Gent in Belgium - EC and Eurostar, or TPE to Manchester Airport then fly to Antwerp. If the prices were within £20 of each other, we always took the plane as it broke the journey up, and as others have said, no hold baggage reduces messing about at airports a lot. Antwerp airport was like City: you could be off the plane and at the bus stop to the station in literally five minutes.

Unfortunately, the service to Antwerp got retimed and I think withdrawn in the end, but the Eurostar's not at all bad!

 

[Bald Rick]

They are. They stop at Shannon on the way out so they can take off from City without much fuel, and while they are filling up, the passengers clear US immigration. As far as I know, they run nonstop on the way back.

The don't have enough fuel to go head on into the jet stream for 7-8 hours and have enough spare for the holding pattern into JFK.

On the way back, it's wind assisted and no holding pattern for LCY, hence non stop.

 

[johnnychips]

The don't have enough fuel to go head on into the jet stream for 7-8 hours and have enough spare for the holding pattern into JFK.

On the way back, it's wind assisted and no holding pattern for LCY, hence non stop.

And I'm not sure they would be light enough to take off from City if they had enough fuel to cross the Atlantic. Of course the passengers don't mind the stop at Shannon, because the U.S. preclearance of immigration there means they walk out of Domestic Arrivals at JFK.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't discount Luton - it has sharpened it's game considerably in the last 3 years. Rarely have to wait more than 2 mins at security on the way out, and on my last 3 trips the hold bags have beaten me to the carousel with less than a 5 min wait at passports.

Even before that I've never found it bad. If the security queue was a bit long, £4 would jump it. And the departure lounge is quite nice.

Neil

 

[berneyarms]

It is fair to say that if you travel prepared, with hand luggage, and frankly even with checked luggage, flying is not as big an issue as people seem to think.

It's still got the edge over the train between Scotland and London, particularly using London City, but it really ultimately depends upon where exactly your journey starts from and finishes.

 

[najaB]

Off-topic, I know but:

If the security queue was a bit long, £4 would jump it.

Are terrorists on a budget now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's still got the edge over the train between Scotland and London, particularly using London City, but it really ultimately depends upon where exactly your journey starts from and finishes.

And it is worth remembering that while Stansted, Luton and to an extent Gatwick take the mick somewhat as London airports as they are so far out, they do serve vast swathes of the Home Counties and Sussex rather better than a stopping train to London to connect with a fast service to Scotland, if the journey is indeed that way round.

You've got a similar situation in south Manchester, where Manchester Airport is far less of a faff to get to for people in south Manchester and much of Cheshire than Piccadilly or Stockport stations (or at least equal) - and well-off Cheshire contains many of the sort of business people who regularly need to travel to London for meetings.

Rail does compete well on city centre to city centre journeys, but while the destination is very likely to be a city centre, in our still dominantly suburban-dwelling home-owning culture the origin most likely is not.

Neil