Travellers occupying Chippenham car park.

[VisualAcid]

So how does this happen? Just seen FGW's tweet.

 

[6Gman]

So how does this happen? Just seen FGW's tweet.

They turn up and park their vehicles.

The landowner then faces a legal process to move them on.

Such is the law.

 

[Hadders]

The landowner will also face the cost of clearing up the site once they have moved on.

 

[221129]

They turn up and park their vehicles.

The landowner then faces a legal process to move them on.

Such is the law.

If it is the railway's car park could it be easier to get them to move on?

 

[Hadders]

If it is the railway's car park could it be easier to get them to move on?

I doubt it.

I'm not a lawyer but from my limited experience of getting travellers moved on from retail car parks you have to get a court order. I doubt it'll be any different for the railway.

 

[LowLevel]

Now *that* is the kind of traveller that requires burning out. They're on the railway, hand them all withdrawal of implied consent forms then send in the riot squad.

(Ducks behind the parapet )

 

[Bishopstone]

The car park charges will soon become expensive if they stay for too long.

 

[First class]

Because the Byelaws apply on the railway it IS easier to remove them.

any motor vehicle, bicycle
or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw
14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or
under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.

Just needs an RPI or some member of railway staff (probably a manager) to authorise a tow truck.

In Scotland, only the police can authorise it, but England & Wales isn't so strict.

They also have the power to FORCIBLY remove people from railway property if in breach of a Byelaw, (Byelaw 6(8) has almost certainly been breached).

Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised
person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails
to desist or leave when asked to do so by an authorised
person may be removed from the railway by an authorised
person using reasonable force.

 

[CC 72100]

The car park charges will soon become expensive if they stay for too long.

I know your post was 100% in jest, but I don't think they'd be the sort of people who'd pay anyway

 

[Bishopstone]

I know your post was 100% in jest, but I don't think they'd be the sort of people who'd pay anyway

My understanding - contrary to popular myth - is that Traveller vehicles are generally taxed and insured, such is the prevalence of ANPR traps these days. But to whom are they registered, given the nomadic lifestyle of the Traveller? A community member with a permanent address, maybe?

In theory, there should be an address linked to each vehicle to which correspondence relating to unpaid parking charges can be sent, although I appreciate enforcing the matter will often be easier said than done.

 

[Mojo]

Because the Byelaws apply on the railway it IS easier to remove them.

Have the Railway Byelaws been amended since the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 outlawed towing and clamping on private land? There appears to be a conflict between the two laws, which one takes priority? I'm guessing that the Railway Byelaws provide for the "lawful authority" required in the Act.

 

[221129]

Couldn't BTP evict them for trespassing on the Railway?

 

[najaB]

I'm guessing that the Railway Byelaws provide for the "lawful authority" required in the Act.

That's my interpretation as well.

 

[richw]

My understanding - contrary to popular myth - is that Traveller vehicles are generally taxed and insured, such is the prevalence of ANPR traps these days. But to whom are they registered, given the nomadic lifestyle of the Traveller? A community member with a permanent address, maybe?

In theory, there should be an address linked to each vehicle to which correspondence relating to unpaid parking charges can be sent, although I appreciate enforcing the matter will often be easier said than done.

I know of a "traveller" although he bought a very rural field with high hedge rows all round about 7 or 8 years ago and doesn't travel anymore and is permanent on his field now. He replaced his touring caravan with a static caravan for which he gained planning permission. The planning permission allows him to be there 48 weeks a year. He always takes 4 weeks holidays away.

All of his mail and vehicles are registered to his daughters house due to a field in the middle of nowhere being no good for the mail service, or DVLA etc.

 

[PHILIPE]

The problem is that whatever laws are in force and whatever powers people in authority have, there is always difficulty in removing them from wherever they set up camp. It's easier said than done once they start saying they've got rights

 

[Elecman]

The BTP can but are reluctant to because the local police ask them not to because of problems caused to the surrounding public area when they do.

 

[nuts & bolts]

I suspect the Travellers will leave next week after half term finishes, the card they will play in the meantime is a good few commuters will be off as well!
But to clarify the situation, "Tresspass", Travellers can be moved on by non civil enforcrment baliffs should APCOA think fit!

 

[Flamingo]

It was to deal with this nuscience that trespass became a criminal offence in Ireland. Apparently a crowd would turn up on a Friday in a hotel car-park and refuse to move unless a sum of money changed hands. Knowing a court order would not be got until after the weekend, the business would be forced to pay or lose a weekends business.

In my opinion the right to seize and destroy a vehicle should be extended to cases like this.

It's probably going to cost thousands to tidy up after them.

 

[Hadders]

And I doubt any rail passengers will want to leave their car in the car park this week so a loss of revenue too.

 

[BestWestern]

In my opinion the right to seize and destroy a vehicle should be extended to cases like this.

It's probably going to cost thousands to tidy up after them.

Thoroughly agree. What is needed to stop this nonsense is a harsh deterent. It isn't difficult, simply a very high per vehicle fine for trespass with accompanying powers to seize the vehicle concerned until said fine is paid. No payment, vehicle auctioned. The high amount would cover policing and vehicle recovery costs. A few cases of that across the land and these vermin will vanish quick enough.

 

[Bevan Price]

Are there any local farmers who could loan NR a load of nice, very smelly manure for a week or two, to leave in the car park ?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Have the Railway Byelaws been amended since the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 outlawed towing and clamping on private land? There appears to be a conflict between the two laws, which one takes priority? I'm guessing that the Railway Byelaws provide for the "lawful authority" required in the Act.

Railway car parks aren't "relevant land" for the purposes of PoFA, because Byelaws apply (assuming the land the car park is on is owned by "the railway")...Same goes for (some) ferry ports and (some) airports.

Having said that, only EMT and Northern tend to take things through to prosecution, but most speculative invoices (aka "Parking Charge Notices") issued in railway car parks are relatively easy to kill anyway.

 

[Flamingo]

Thoroughly agree. What is needed to stop this nonsense is a harsh deterent. It isn't difficult, simply a very high per vehicle fine for trespass with accompanying powers to seize the vehicle concerned until said fine is paid. No payment, vehicle auctioned. The high amount would cover policing and vehicle recovery costs. A few cases of that across the land and these vermin will vanish quick enough.

Why auction? Just destroy, same as no tax/insurance.

 

[ainsworth74]

Why auction? Just destroy, same as no tax/insurance.

Might as well get some money back to cover costs of dealing with this nonsense.

As far as I'm concerned if they're on private property without permission all that should be required is the land owner calls the police and they issue a notice giving them 24 hours to vacate or they'll be removed by the police with any vehicles impounded unless a fee can be paid to release them. No fee within seven days and it's sold to highest bidder/destroyed.

 

[Flamingo]

I suppose the legality of it would extend to cars parked in public carparks. Easiest solution would be to make trespass a criminal offence. Then police could enforce removal immediately.

 

[yorkie]

The car park charges will soon become expensive if they stay for too long.

They will refuse to pay and no one can make them pay (if anyone even dares trying to ask them!)

 

[Bishopstone]

They will refuse to pay and no one can make them pay (if anyone even dares trying to ask them!)

The 'run up a debt and then claim to have no money to service it, whilst driving around in a swish car and being hostile in approach' thing is certainly not unique to Travellers.

Just ask most small businesses, or ladies who have endured difficult divorces from successful men.

 

[lincolnshire]

Are there any local farmers who could loan NR a load of nice, very smelly manure for a week or two, to leave in the car park ?

The above certainly works, this happened at Thorne on a roundabout just off the M18/M180 Junction.

All the caravans etc was on the grass at the side of the road for a few days then along came big heaps of good old farm yard manure (s**t) and did it stink.

They didn,t stop long and never been back.

Best way to stop them is where did they get there water from? stop them getting water and they will move on as you can,t live without water as I bet they don,t pay for that either.

 

[Hadders]

That reminds me of a run in I had with a group of travellers who parked up on the car park of the supermarket I was the manager of many hears ago.

First thing I did was to lock the customer toilets as i just knew they'd get trashed and be abused. A few hours later I've got the Local Authority's Traveller Liaison Officer (I kid you not!) in my office demanding that I re-open the toilets as I'm infringing the travellers human rights. I stood firm and threatened to go to the local paper.

The travellers moved on after a few days but not before leaving behind a tale of destruction across the car park, costing thousands to clear up.

 

[PHILIPE]

The authorities often seem reluctant to take legitimate legal action. Political correctness ?