Farnworth Tunnel Electrification.

[thealexweb]

I'm not sure that would solve the problem, or at least would create more problems such platform congestion at Victoria, and possibly stock shortages or extra staffing costs due to less efficient diagramming.

There is no alternative. Northern Rail cannot afford to run anything smaller than that because even at six cars they will be rammed full each hour. This system worked well between Manchester Victoria and Chorley last summer.
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...after all, Blackpool North doesn't need many trains during the summer season.

I'm sure I'd heard that at least some of the Liverpool services were going to be cut back to Preston when they go electric, if that's still the case we're already on a reduced service to Blackpool (extra capacity on the airport trains, but not enough to compensate and Preston platform 1 won't be a pleasant place to be.).

People travelling between Manchester and Blackpool North should be encouraged to use TPE and Northern Rail services that are being diverted via Wigan North Western. The Bolton services will be so rammed that any Blackpool passengers that can be diverted away should be.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What!? There's "no alternative" to something you just suggested, and you didn't give any indication that you're involved in the decision making process? Right... :roll:

 

[thealexweb]

What!? There's "no alternative" to something you just suggested, and you didn't give any indication that you're involved in the decision making process? Right... :roll:

By no alternative, I meant the idea of maxing out the usage of each available path by using the longest trains physically possible.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

What!? There's "no alternative" to something you just suggested, and you didn't give any indication that you're involved in the decision making process? Right... :roll:

Harrumph. Given that the best NR can offer through Farnworth* is 6tph, then to get maximum B.O.S. Nortern have responded by requiring six-car trains to be catered for. As Mr Alex Web says, for services calling at Buckshaw and Bolton and points inbetween there really isn't an alternative, especially if two of your six are Clitheroes.

Not that I'm involved in the decision making process either ...

*plenty of photo-ops on the SLW bit, at the speed that's going on!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What was involved with the upgrading works at Blackrod station a couple of years ago, upon which a million pounds was stated to be the cost?

Whilst we are on the matter of Blackrod, are there any current rail-related works that are the reason for new TfGM bus timetables being issued this month that concern the "temporary" closure of Station Road in Blackrod.

 

[snowball]

Here's the tunnelling shield itself:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news..._tunnel_under_A666_as_railway_is_electrified/

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Here's the tunnelling shield itself:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news..._tunnel_under_A666_as_railway_is_electrified/

And an article chock-full of errors, mistakes and poor grammar.

 

[Emyr]

In Kearsley, a pedestrian level crossing will be closed and replaced with a footbridge.

Kearsley has a tunnel with ramped aproaches...

 

[snowball]

Someone on another forum has pointed out that the machine in the BEN picture has "Heathrow Express" painted on it, so is unlikely to be the actual one to be used at Farnworth.

 

[kevconnor]

Would there be any possibility/advantage in looking to utilise the Todmordon Curve to try and take some of the pressure off. Running from Preston or Blackburn around the curve towards MCV.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Kearsley has a tunnel with ramped aproaches...

But Kearsley footpath crossing (200m north of Kearsley Station) does not, which is the one they mean.

 

[northwichcat]

Network Rail presentation to TfGM: http://www.transportforgreatermanch...farnworth_tunnel_presentation_by_network_rail

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Did I read that correctly - nowt whatsoever at Bolton on weekends?

 

[thealexweb]

Did I read that correctly - nowt whatsoever at Bolton on weekends?

Yes.... be afraid.

 

[northwichcat]

The plan for weekday services during the closure will be a standard hourly pattern of:

1tph Preston-Hazel Grove
1tph Blackpool North-Victoria
1tph Clitheroe-Victoria

At peak times only TPE will run services between Preston and the Airport via Bolton apparently using 6 carriage formations. There seems to be conflicting information about whether or not TPE will operate off-peak services.

Southport-Airport services will be diverted via Atherton.

Kirkby-Victoria services will instead run to Bolton calling at Westhoughton.

 

[Darren R]

I'm surprised that the Blackburn/Clitheroe line is retaining through services to Manchester during the tunnel works. The longest formation that can be accommodated on the Clitheroe Line is a double 150 or 142, (even 2x156s are too long for most platforms) so only two of the three trains per hour between Bolton and Manchester can be six carriages in length.

When are the timetables for the partial closure going to be finalised?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm surprised that the Blackburn/Clitheroe line is retaining through services to Manchester during the tunnel works. The longest formation that can be accommodated on the Clitheroe Line is a double 150 or 142, (even 2x156s are too long for most platforms)

Every time that we arrive at Clitheroe coming from Salford Crescent, I always notice the now-disused part of the platform that we arrive at and I wonder as to the costs of bringing that part of the disused platform back into operation.

 

[Bullfield WEst]

I'm surprised that the Blackburn/Clitheroe line is retaining through services to Manchester during the tunnel works. The longest formation that can be accommodated on the Clitheroe Line is a double 150 or 142, (even 2x156s are too long for most platforms) so only two of the three trains per hour between Bolton and Manchester can be six carriages in length.

When are the timetables for the partial closure going to be finalised?

Could do a 4 car splitting at Bolton?

 

[ianhr]

The plan for weekday services during the closure will be a standard hourly pattern of:

1tph Preston-Hazel Grove
1tph Blackpool North-Victoria
1tph Clitheroe-Victoria

Oh the sacred Preston-Hazel Grove! Why can't they split it at Manchester and use an electric unit for Piccadilly-Hazel Grove, saving a DMU and making use of the (unused) Stockport-Hazel Grove electrification? How many people really use this as a through route from Bolton etc to Stockport? Then use the path it frees up for another through train for which there would be more demand.

 

[northwichcat]

Oh the sacred Preston-Hazel Grove! Why can't they split it at Manchester and use an electric unit for Piccadilly-Hazel Grove, saving a DMU and making use of the (unused) Stockport-Hazel Grove electrification? How many people really use this as a through route from Bolton etc to Stockport? Then use the path it frees up for another through train for which there would be more demand.

The choices at present are:
1. Terminate Preston services at Oxford Rd and run a Oxford Rd-Hazel Grove EMU service. You can't terminate both services at Piccadilly due to pathing constraints. It would also likely require an extra unit as while you could provide an hourly Piccadilly-Hazel Grove service using 1 diagram, extending it to Oxford Rd would need 2. That would also require a franchise agreement revision as providing an hourly service between Stockport and Bolton/Preston is a franchise requirement.
2. Run Chester/Buxton services to Preston. Northern don't want to do this due poor punctuality on Buxton-Blackpool services before they were split.
3. Run Alderley Edge services to Preston instead - there's no point in considering that unless post-Bolton electrification Hazel Grove services are extended to Buxton/Chinley/Sheffield in which case there would be a strong case for considering it.
4. Keep things as they are.

On top of that at present in the morning peak there's a diagram which does:
Chester-Stockport
Stockport-Hazel Grove ECS
Hazel Grove-Preston

And another which does:
Piccadilly-Hazel Grove
Hazel Grove-Piccadilly
Piccadilly-Chester
(The latter is the 08:17 service. The unit off the 06:02 Chester-Piccadilly is actually trapped in at Piccadilly at that point due to platform/pathing constraints.)

Then in the evening peak there's one which does:
Piccadilly-Hazel Grove
Hazel Grove-Stockport ECS
Stockport-Chester

The reason there are Chester-Stockport and Stockport-Chester services are due to insufficient paths in and out of Piccadilly. So Northern really need more paths in to Piccadilly before Hazel Grove-Piccadilly services can be mainly electric unless they are going to have DMUs being wasted doing longer ECS runs at peak times.

 

[Greybeard33]

The choices at present are:
1. Terminate Preston services at Oxford Rd and run a Oxford Rd-Hazel Grove EMU service. You can't terminate both services at Piccadilly due to pathing constraints. It would also likely require an extra unit as while you could provide an hourly Piccadilly-Hazel Grove service using 1 diagram, extending it to Oxford Rd would need 2. That would also require a franchise agreement revision as providing an hourly service between Stockport and Bolton/Preston is a franchise requirement.
2. Run Chester/Buxton services to Preston. Northern don't want to do this due poor punctuality on Buxton-Blackpool services before they were split.

Additionally, Options 1 & 2 would require Piccadilly crews to be trained on 319s, since the 323 fleet is already fully utilised, and would involve complicated diagrams, since the 319s are based at Allerton. Extra cost for Northern.

 

[northwichcat]

Additionally, Options 1 & 2 would require Piccadilly crews to be trained on 319s, since the 323 fleet is already fully utilised, and would involve complicated diagrams, since the 319s are based at Allerton. Extra cost for Northern.

Indeed.

With the 156s based at Allerton Northern were looking at putting 156s released by Chat Moss electrification on to the Mid-Cheshire line to reduce the amount of ECS mileage* (as well as providing some extra seats on some Mid-Cheshire services.) However, since DfT have forced Northern to loan 156s to TPE it looks like that won't happen now.

* There's 1 x ECS move from Newton Heath to Chester in the morning and 1 from Longsight to Chester and 1 from Chester to Longsight in the evening. If units for Chester trains came from Allerton it would have left Newton Heath based units to provide the Todmorden extension and strengthening on the Bolton corridor.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Every time that we arrive at Clitheroe coming from Salford Crescent, I always notice the now-disused part of the platform that we arrive at and I wonder as to the costs of bringing that part of the disused platform back into operation.

They are extending them for the duration of the Farnworth works, and at Darwen etc.

 

[thealexweb]

They are extending them for the duration of the Farnworth works, and at Darwen etc.

Sadly not true. I asked Network Rail via Twitter and only Leyland, Adlington and Blackrod (platforms that arguably require no work) are receiving any temporary work.
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Would Manchester Victoria be able to handle 8 x 20m cars?. If so terminating the Clitheroe stopper at Bolton and running a Bolton to Manchester Victoria non-stop with four sprinters would be a better use of the path. The current plans just don't offer anywhere near enough capacity.

 

[Inox]

At vic:
platform 3 is 254 metres
platform 4 is 224 metres
platform 5 & 6 are 215 metres

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Sadly not true. I asked Network Rail via Twitter and only Leyland, Adlington and Blackrod (platforms that arguably require no work) are receiving any temporary work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And I know Darwen platforms are being temporarily extended (along with others on this route) because I've seen the meeting minutes. If it isn't happening any more I hope I'd know!*

* will check with colleagues - BRB.

 

[thealexweb]

And I know Darwen platforms are being temporarily extended (along with others on this route) because I've seen the meeting minutes. If it isn't happening any more I hope I'd know!*

* will check with colleagues - BRB.

This is my source btw.

https://twitter.com/thealexweb/status/563692886915817472

 

[CdBrux]

this kind of thing slightly annoys me, we can extend the platforms temporarily, but I bet if this needed to be done permanently it would cost 5 times as much and take far longer to achieve. What's the difference?

 

[najaB]

What's the difference?

Red tape. For the same reason that you don't need planning permission to put up a tent, even a substantial one, but you do need permission to build a granny annexe - permanent structures have different rules to temporary ones.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Red tape. For the same reason that you don't need planning permission to put up a tent, even a substantial one, but you do need permission to build a granny annexe - permanent structures have different rules to temporary ones.

This being the case, may I ask if the actual built up Clitheroe original platform that I described in my recent posting that is now unused would be good enough to take a top surfacing to match the height of the currently used platform there, without any remedial structural works on the original one.