GTR Prosecutions Department not responding - court date approaching fast

[anucreative]

Hi all,

I was served with a court summons last week following an incident (expired National Railcard) on 4th November. A court date has been set for Friday 4th November and my attempts to settle this with GTR have been excrutiatingly slow. With the court date a week away I feel that I'm running out of time before having to enter my plea.

Question: Should I plead guilty and hope GTR get back to me (and cancel the court date) in time? Should I plead not guilty (which should delay the court date) and, again, hope GTR resolve the issue before then?

A sequence of events is below.

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4th November: I bought an off-peak return ticket from Brighton->Farringdon and got a discount for my Network Railcard (saving £3 on a £16 ticket)

I was stopped by a ticket inspector who found my Network Railcard had expired. I was asked to pay a £48 penalty fare which I wasn't able to pay at the time. Before making my return journey I purchased a new Network Railcard.

Note: After being cautioned and giving my details to the inspector I was not given a copy of the witness form which I now believe I should have been.

At the time (in a stressful situation) I didn't know I should get a copy of it and I expected to receive a letter in the mail asking me to pay the penalty fare. I never received anything of the sort.

Also note that the amount £22.40 on the photocopy of the witness form I received with the court summons was not there when I signed it (I was told the penalty was £48 pounds). In fact, looking at this photocopy, it appears that the amount has been added with a different pen.

21st November: I received a ‘Notice of intention to prosecute’ asking for my version of events.
Note: There was no request to pay a penalty fare — just a threat of court action. At this point I was rather confused because no amount or way to pay the fare was provided. Looking back, assuming I *was* to be given 21 days to pay any penalty fare, this notice was sent before the 21 days were up.


23rd November: I responded to the letter with my version of the events and said that I had not received a request to pay anything.


14th December: I received a letter saying that court action was going ahead and I should expect a summons. Still no amount or way to pay.


18th December: I called the GTR Prosecutions Department to ask how to pay but there was no answer.


5th January: I called the Prosecutions Department again to ask how to pay and left a message asking how to rectify the situation – I received no response despite leaving my phone number.


8th January: I called the Prosecutions Department a third time but still no answer.


8th January: I sent an email to the Prosecutions Department again saying I hadn't received a demand or request to pay a penalty fare.
Note: At this stage I still didn't know how or much to pay for the penalty fare.


24th January: I received a court summons with a court date of 6th February. I need to send my plea to arrive 3 days before the date.

27th January: I finally receive a call from GTR Prosecutions where the agent explains (in very vague terms) that I need to write a letter offering to compensate them for the ticket (£22.40) and to cover expenses (£120) and, if they accept it, they would tell me how to pay and drop the case. I asked if I could email instead and he said that was fine, to send it to his email address.

I emailed with the offer and gave a sigh of relief as I expected it would soon be sorted.

28th January: I called to follow up and left a message

29th January: I emailed to follow up.

30th January: I called 3 times to follow up and left several messages.

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Although an honest mistake (I use the NR card 2-3 times a year so didn't notice it had expired) I expect I'll be found guilty in court despite my best efforts to remedy the situation.

What should I do? Plead guilty and take the criminal record (which would show up on a CRB check and really screw up the volunteering I do at my daughter's school)? Or plead not guilty to push the court date out a bit further and buy myself some time?

This is having an unduly devastating effect on me and my family.

What advice do you have?

Thanks in advance,
Rob.

 

[bb21]

I think you court date is wrong. Just doublecheck when it is.

It sounds to me that because you were unable to pay the Penalty Fare at the time, the offer to pay that was withdrawn and a witness statement taken instead, therefore the Penalty Fare was no longer an option.

What do you mean by "I emailed with the offer" on 27th January? What did you say in that email?

I don't know where the figure of £48 came from. Are you sure it was not £44.80, ie. twice the full single fare?

 

[Clip]

If they're taking you to court then I would assume they have cancelled the PF which is why they have not replied to your offers to pay it.

I hope you mean february too.

 

[najaB]

Does the documentation you have received indicate exactly what you are being charged with?

 

[First class]

You are not entitled to, or given a copy of the witness statement AT THE TIME you are interviewed.

When you get the summons, it usually has a copy of the statement in the prosecution bundle.

If it's Byelaw 18, and GTR arent showing any interest in dropping the matter, pleading guilty, and attending court in person to apologise etc is the best way forward.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I think you court date is wrong. Just doublecheck when it is.

Agreed.

Does the documentation you have received indicate exactly what you are being charged with?

This is vital information which we need. Either it will refer to the Act, or to the short description of what you allegedly did (e.g. "did fail to produce a ticket when requested by . . . . " or "entered a train without . . . . ")

What should I do? Plead guilty and take the criminal record (which would show up on a CRB check and really screw up the volunteering I do at my daughter's school)? Or plead not guilty to push the court date out a bit further and buy myself some time?

Any advice depends on knowing what you are accused of. But if you did what is alledged, it would be pointeless for remote advisors such as ourselves to suggest anything other than either a) making a guilty plea, or b) instructing a local solicitor from a Law Firm which specialises in Criminal Defence work.

which might be "travelled without having previously paid his fare, with intent to avoid payment"

When you get the summons, it usually has a copy of the statement in the prosecution bundle.

Yes, though different Courts have different procedures in practice. It might be easier to call the Court Office and ask if you can collect the 'bundle' (take government ID with your photo and address if you do).

If it's Byelaw 18, and GTR arent showing any interest in dropping the matter, pleading guilty, and attending court in person to apologise etc is the best way forward.

I agree - but we need to know which offence it is - Byelaw 17 or 18 is less serious (for which reason, the Magistrates will not want to hear much argument about it!) but you can attempt to reduce the impact with mitigation and evidence of your income; RoRA S.5 is more serious, and a legal representative would be advisable - they may well be able to reduce the impact very much, depending on the actual facts of the matter (including your history, the financial loss to the Company and the quality of the Prosecution's evidence).

There's more we still need to know!

 

[anucreative]

Thanks all for your help here. Much appreciated.

I think you court date is wrong. Just doublecheck when it is.

Yeah, sorry, Friday 6th February

What do you mean by "I emailed with the offer" on 27th January? What did you say in that email?

When speaking to the agent he suggested I could write in with an offer to compensate them for the ticket (£22.40) and contribute towards their processing costs (they're seeking £120 in the summons). I did this by email following the call but I've had no response from him since then (whether they would accept the offer or not).

I don't know where the figure of £48 came from. Are you sure it was not £44.80, ie. twice the full single fare?

You're probably right there – I found it quite stressful at the time (is it just me?) and probably misheard him.

Does the documentation you have received indicate exactly what you are being charged with?

It's Byelaw 18(1) "having entered a train for the purpose of travelling, did not have a ticket entitling travel"

When you get the summons, it usually has a copy of the statement in the prosecution bundle.

Yes, I got a copy with the summons. I've realised after trawling through this forum my terminology was all wrong – I thought I had missed an opportunity to pay a penalty fare whereas the witness form was an MG11.

If it's Byelaw 18, and GTR arent showing any interest in dropping the matter, pleading guilty, and attending court in person to apologise etc is the best way forward.

Again, after trawling the forum, I see this as my best route.

Do I need to plead guilty now by replying to the summons? Or can I wait for the court appearance to do it (and make a last- minute attempt to settle out-of-court with the prosecutor on the day as suggested here)?

Thanks again,
Rob.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Do I need to plead guilty now by replying to the summons? Or can I wait for the court appearance to do it (and make a last- minute attempt to settle out-of-court with the prosecutor on the day . . . ?

You can certainly make an offer on the day of the hearing, but it will be worth trying again beforehand.
I'd suggest writing again, by post this time, referring to the phone conversation on 27th in which the officer indicated that an offer would be accepted, and that you sent that offer by email, and then by repeating that offer.

If you don't get a response by the date of the hearing, you should definitely attend the Court, and get there an hour or so before your case is listed so that you can introduce yourself to the Court staff, find out where everyone is, where the conference rooms are, and create an opportunity to speak with the Prosecutor.

But if you enter a plea of Guilty, then although you won't have eliminated the chance of reaching a settlement, it will be easier for the Prosecutor and the Court staff just to carry on with the prosecution, and if they do, then your admission of guilt guarantees a fine and costs.

 

[island]

In particular, the offence with which you have been charged is not recordable.

 

[anucreative]

Thanks DaveNewcastle for the advice.

I'd suggest writing again, by post this time, referring to the phone conversation on 27th in which the officer indicated that an offer would be accepted, and that you sent that offer by email, and then by repeating that offer.

I actually did this on Friday afternoon so finger crossed I get a response. Admittedly, I haven't apologised in any of my letters/emails/phone calls to them - I've just offered to settle and asked how to.

But if you enter a plea of Guilty, then although you won't have eliminated the chance of reaching a settlement, it will be easier for the Prosecutor and the Court staff just to carry on with the prosecution, and if they do, then your admission of guilt guarantees a fine and costs.

So, just to be absolutely clear, I should not enter any plea whatsoever until the case is heard? I should not respond to the summons beforehand? Am I not obliged to?

In particular, the offence with which you have been charged is not recordable.

I keep reading this but don't completely understand. Do I have this right?
- If it was a section 5 offence I would get a criminal record and it would show on a CRB check
- Given it's a section 18 Byelaw offence it will not result in a criminal record but will still show on an extended CRB check

Again, thanks all for taking the time to respond and help me out here.

Much appreciated,
Rob

 

[221129]

I keep reading this but don't completely understand. Do I have this right?
- If it was a section 5 offence I would get a criminal record and it would show on a CRB check
- Given it's a section 18 Byelaw offence it will not result in a criminal record but will still show on an extended CRB check

Again, thanks all for taking the time to respond and help me out here.

Much appreciated,
Rob

A byelaw prosecution is non - recordable therefore it will NOT show on any sort of DBS (used to be CRB) check. Enhanced or otherwise.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

So, just to be absolutely clear, I should not enter any plea whatsoever until the case is heard? I should not respond to the summons beforehand?

Ah yes, the hearing is listed for Friday, so you really are at the eleventh hour.

If you haven't made contact with the Prosecutor by Monday, then you'd better submit a Guilty' plea. If the Court received a 'Not Guilty' plea then it triggers a different process, with more Court time being allocated to the Hearing.
If you are able to agree an out-of-court settlement with the Prosecutor, then the case remains listed as a quick admission, but the Prosecution will remain silent in the matter, and no decision will be expected from the Magistrates (and no decision will be entered in the Court records).

 

[anucreative]

So, success! (insofar as being £142 out of pocket for a silly oversight is success).

Finally got a response this morning to an email I sent on Saturday night. They've accepted my offer of compensation and I paid over the phone this morning.

Thank you all for your help. This forum has been invaluable and I really appreciate the time people have put in to responding to my questions - I've noticed through trawling the forums that it's the same people turning up giving advice and support, so thank you.

For the record, this is the email I sent that they responded to. Note, that they didn't respond to any of my other emails/letters and wonder if it's due to the fact that in this one I actually apologise...

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Dear Sir,

Looking at my response to the 'Notice of intention to prosecute’ (dated 23rd November) I didn’t talk about the background to the incident (as I thought I was meant to only describe the incident itself).

I live in Brighton and go up to London for work purposes once a month or so - these journeys are normally before 9am and I’m reimbursed for them so there’s no need for me to use my National Railcard. I travel up to London with family 2-3 times a year so use my NR very rarely - so rarely I didn’t know it had expired. It was an honest mistake and the fact it had been expired for over a month is due to my infrequent travel. In my defence:

- I complied fully with the RPI at the time of the incident,
- I bought a new National Railcard before making my return journey (attached),
- I responded immediately to the 'Notice of intention to prosecute'

I made a silly mistake and am very sorry for it - I had no intention of avoiding my fare, of inconveniencing GTR, or for this to end up in court. This whole experience has been scary and bewildering, and it’s had a huge impact on my family. I will definitely be more careful in the future.

As I stated in my previous email I’m would like to compensate GTR for the ticket (£22.40) and contribute to the administrative costs involved (£120). And, again, I ask that, if accepted, you let me know how to pay.

I hope this can be resolved quickly and without the need for court action.

Regards,
[name redacted - mod]

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[bb21]

Ooh, that was a good one. With it being so close to the court date I would have expected it to have gone up.

Glad that you found the forum useful. Please let others know (not that we wish for anyone to get into trouble ) if you can.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Very good.

I have to give you one more word of caution.
The Court has already listed your matter for a hearing this Friday. Hopefully, the Prosecution will just drop yours from the list of cases they want to bring forward during that hearing, and the Court office will draw a line through your name. BUT, it is always advisable to check - either to check with the Court office by phone or letter, or to attend on the day so that you can make sure you are crossed off the list.

I'm sure that the Prosecutor you spoke to will do the right thing, but Courts do work in a world of paperwork where mistakes are easily made.