Northern rail FAILURE TO PAY

[Islineclear3_1]

If that's what it says, then they are simply asking for £2.40, which is presumably the correct single fare?

I'm fully willing to pay the fine, it was nearly 9 day ago and the reference number still hasn't gone through to ircas. Just worried that northern may be planning another form of prosecution.
This is my first dealing with northern so worried as to what the outcome will be

Just pay the £2.40 , stop worrying and forget about it.

You've probably got away with it this time, but you may be on the watch list for next time

 

[yorkie]

I'm fully willing to pay the fine, it was nearly 9 day ago and the reference number still hasn't gone through to ircas. Just worried that northern may be planning another form of prosecution.
This is my first dealing with northern so worried as to what the outcome will be

If you pay promptly, that's the end of the matter.

If you do not, then they will consider what action to take.

 

[7777]

If you pay promptly, that's the end of the matter.

If you do not, then they will consider what action to take.

I'm just waiting for the form to go through on ircas but it has not yet which is worrying me.
I genuinely thought I was innocent until I came on this site, which is quite embarrassing from my part. Therefore I will be paying it at the very first opportunity

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm just waiting for the form to go through on ircas but it has not yet which is worrying me.
I genuinely thought I was innocent until I came on this site, which is quite embarrassing from my part. Therefore I will be paying it at the very first opportunity

Have you phoned them (Northern and/or IRCAS)? I suppose it might have got delayed.

Neil

 

[7777]

Have you phoned them (Northern and/or IRCAS)? I suppose it might have got delayed.

Neil

Yeah, ive phoned them the last three days in a row and they've just said it takes 7-10 days to go through. Something tells me northern may write to me instead and intend to prosecute

 

[cjmillsnun]

Pay the outstanding fare, and you will have tipped Northern's hand. They can't prosecute you for non payment. They may try and would likely succeed on a strict bylaw offence, but it would be a very nasty company that did that when the person showed themselves to be honest and subsequently paid their fare. Something tells me they wouldn't want the bad publicity, because even though they'd strictly speaking be 100% right in their prosecution, the press would have a field day with it, and they know it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Pay the outstanding fare, and you will have tipped Northern's hand. They can't prosecute you for non payment. They may try and would likely succeed on a strict bylaw offence, but it would be a very nasty company that did that when the person showed themselves to be honest and subsequently paid their fare. Something tells me they wouldn't want the bad publicity, because even though they'd strictly speaking be 100% right in their prosecution, the press would have a field day with it, and they know it.

Really?
I hardly ever hear of any media coverage of the thousands of successful prosecutions for railway ticketing Offences. Admittedly, I don't read much of the press, but my colleagues do, and I'm sure that I would be informed.
Even when high profile internationally recognised people are in Court (as I have attended twice this month already), the media are quick to dismiss them as unnewsworthy, and while I don't pretend to understand how the press make their decisions, I'm sure a world famous celeb would merit some more references than an arbitrary unknown commuter.

So can we really advise 7777 on the basis of anticipating Northern Rail's fear of adverse coverage in a local newspaper or radio item?

I wouldn't.

 

[7777]

Really?
I hardly ever hear of any media coverage of the thousands of successful prosecutions for railway ticketing Offences. Admittedly, I don't read much of the press, but my colleagues do, and I'm sure that I would be informed.
Even when high profile internationally recognised people are in Court (as I have attended twice this month already), the media are quick to dismiss them as unnewsworthy, and while I don't pretend to understand how the press make their decisions, I'm sure a world famous celeb would merit some more references than an arbitrary unknown commuter.

So can we really advise 7777 on the basis of anticipating Northern Rail's fear of adverse coverage in a local newspaper or radio item?

I wouldn't.

So if you were me would you expect to recieve a letter regarding prosecution rather than being made to pay the fee?
Thanks

 

[DaveNewcastle]

So if you were me would you expect to recieve a letter regarding prosecution rather than being made to pay the fee?

(Its not a case of 'if I were you', but . . . ) yes, the Company wouldn't be asking for the fee (or more correctly, the 'fare' for the journey) if it was considering a prosecution against you.

 

[7777]

The fare of 2.40£ has come up and I've paid it. So I presume this will be the end of the matter.
Thanks for all the help and responses, now I'm clear on northern rails policy, I certainly will never board a train again without a ticket whether people buy them on the train or not.
Thanks a lot
L

 

[yorkie]

Yes, that's the end of the matter.

I certainly will never board a train again without a ticket whether people buy them on the train or not.....

...unless there was no facility to purchase the ticket you require at the origin, e.g. if the ticket office was closed at the time of travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, that's the end of the matter.

...unless there was no facility to purchase the ticket you require at the origin, e.g. if the ticket office was closed at the time of travel.

*and* there was no working ticket machine. To avoid an unclear matter as often debated on here, it is worth knowing what payment methods exist on that machine, and if you have them carrying and using them, or if you are going to say the machine was not an option for you not carrying them. For instance if it is a card only machine and you are carrying a card, use the machine. It is only certain that it was not an opportunity to pay if you are not carrying a card.

Neil

 

[7777]

Yes, that's the end of the matter.

...unless there was no facility to purchase the ticket you require at the origin, e.g. if the ticket office was closed at the time of travel.

My local the ticket office at my local station sankey shuts at 16:00 weekly, and there are no ticket machines. So just to be clear, if boarding after the time of closure, it is perfectly acceptable to either purchase on the train or pay at my destination-thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

My local the ticket office at my local station sankey shuts at 16:00 weekly, and there are no ticket machines. So just to be clear, if boarding after the time of closure, it is perfectly acceptable to either purchase on the train or pay at my destination-thanks

Yes.

Neil

 

[sarahj]

and remember, if you want to, you can come up and find us guards.
We wont bite.* We have an advantix and we sometimes know how to use it and it sometimes works.


* Well most of wont bite and of course I'm only speaking from a Southern guards POV. Other TOC's may vary.

 

[Deerfold]

and remember, if you want to, you can come up and find us guards.
We wont bite.* We have an advantix and we sometimes know how to use it and it sometimes works.


* Well most of wont bite and of course I'm only speaking from a Southern guards POV. Other TOC's may vary.

This advice doesn't work all over the country. In parts (including bits of Northern Rail where many passengers are boarding without having been able to pay) you'll be told to wait your turn by people not wanting to have to join the queues to pay at Leeds (or wherever).

 

[as1981]

Exactly. Although a few months ago I was shouted at by a guy travelling from Paddington who told me to just do my damn job and sell him a ticket. So I did - an Anytime single, instead of the Super-Off-Peak he wanted to buy. His attitude cost him about £70...

It's nice to see staff getting the chance to make passengers pay (literally in this case) for their attitude That's said as a member of public, manners costs nothing.

I'm guessing he wasn't technically eligible for the off peak ticket as he passed an opportunity to pay.

 

[sarahj]

Sometimes down here in Southern Land I end up having a queue. Most are served on a first come basis, but those getting off first might get a queue jump, esp if they are paying cash. And all this on a train with 2-3 mins between stops.

 

[LateThanNever]

Sometimes down here in Southern Land I end up having a queue. Most are served on a first come basis, but those getting off first might get a queue jump, esp if they are paying cash. And all this on a train with 2-3 mins between stops.

Congratulations. Marvellous customer service.
Let's hope that, in spite of being half owned by Serco, Northern Rail take notice!

 

[yorkie]

Congratulations. Marvellous customer service.
Let's hope that, in spite of being half owned by Serco, Northern Rail take notice!

Take notice of what?

Northern Guards are already likely to provide a similar level of service (with the caveats described by Deerfold and others in numerous other threads) but that's nothing to do with the 'dispute' in hand (though this was never actually a dispute; a simple request for payment which was subsequently made).

If the OP had been travelling on one of sarahj's trains and, as in the situation described, not been sold a ticket because she was busy selling other people tickets, then revenue staff for her company would have issued a Penalty Fare.

This really has nothing to do with the OPs question, and Northern are not going to "take notice" of how Southern do things by introducing a Penalty Fare scheme.

 

[causton]

It's nice to see staff getting the chance to make passengers pay (literally in this case) for their attitude That's said as a member of public, manners costs nothing.

I'm guessing he wasn't technically eligible for the off peak ticket as he passed an opportunity to pay.

Oh yes, if you have the time I will work out what's cheaper for you, if you come up and ask for a single to Euston or whatever I will ask if you're needing the tube, etc, etc, where are you going, to save you spending £10 now and £15 later by spending £15 now etc...

So, there is a common split to easily save money going to Manchester, takes the single journey to about half the price...

I briefly explain to the guy how to make the journey, and was just about to say "I can make it a lot cheaper for you by..."

"CAN YOU HURRY UP PLEASE? My train is coming"
"The train is in 20 minutes, but okay then."

*full price single sold*

I can only try so much...

 

[Bletchleyite]

"CAN YOU HURRY UP PLEASE? My train is coming"
"The train is in 20 minutes, but okay then."

*full price single sold*

I can only try so much...

I suppose he might well have been on business expenses and so not cared...

Neil

 

[7777]

I've had a letter off northern rail explaining there failure to pay scheme.
This is part of the response:
'Consequently your actions placed you in a very serious and unlawful position. This particular offence is subject to prosecution under *railway byelaws. In accordance with data protection this incident and your details have been recorded. Following the date of this letter any further occurrence of this nature will result in an automatic fixed penalty'

Does this signify that the case is closed?
What does 'subject to prosecution' mean?
Thanks

 

[island]

Yes this means they are taking no further action on this occasion.

"Subject to prosecution" means they could have prosecuted you (but have chosen not to).

 

[Merseysider]

I've had a letter off northern rail explaining there failure to pay scheme.
This is part of the response:
'Consequently your actions placed you in a very serious and unlawful position. This particular offence is subject to prosecution under *railway byelaws. In accordance with data protection this incident and your details have been recorded. Following the date of this letter any further occurrence of this nature will result in an automatic fixed penalty'

Does this signify that the case is closed?
What does 'subject to prosecution' mean?
Thanks

You have been let off the hook - this time only - so count yourself lucky!

If you pass an opportunity to pay again, when travelling with Northern Rail, they'll be taking it further - and it'll leave a hole in your pocket.

 

[7777]

So it's definitely closed just to clarify?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it's definitely closed just to clarify?

Certainly appears so. If you want to put your mind completely at rest why not phone them?

But don't do it again, as it's not closed in the sense that they will keep a record of it, and next time won't be as lenient.

Neil

 

[7777]

I've phoned the northern rail payment line at ircas and they've said the matter is closed.
Is this reliable? Are these able to tell this?
Thanks

 

[Merseysider]

I've phoned the northern rail payment line at ircas and they've said the matter is closed.
Is this reliable? Are these able to tell this?
Thanks

Yep, if they say the matter's closed then it's closed.

Put your feet up, relax and move on, hopefully having learned a lesson.

 

[7777]

Yes without a doubt
Although it was obvious I never tried to defraud them, I understand everything I have been told/advised