London bus driver strike over pay?

[GodAtum]

Taxi, Bike, friend, train...........how far is too far to walk ?

a few miles, could take over an hour. some people might not be able to afford a taxi nor have a bike.

 

[Busaholic]

Taxi, Bike, friend, train...........how far is too far to walk ?

When I worked at London Transport HQ in the 1970s there was a bus strike. One person who lived on the New Addington estate didn't make it into work and was forced to take the day as part of his annual leave! No Tramlink then, just a (normally) very intensive bus service.

 

[infobleep]

a few miles, could take over an hour. some people might not be able to afford a taxi nor have a bike.

During rush hour a bus can take an hour to go a few miles, so if one only has a few miles to walk it might not take any longer! Be interesting to see if the traffic is any worse on Tuesday. Will more people drive or will the lack of buses reduce the amount of traffic.

I'll be walking but I only have about a mile to walk.

 

[Robertj21a]

During rush hour a bus can take an hour to go a few miles, so if one only has a few miles to walk it might not take any longer! Be interesting to see if the traffic is any worse on Tuesday. Will more people drive or will the lack of buses reduce the amount of traffic.

I'll be walking but I only have about a mile to walk.

Just walking fairly leisurely will result in you covering at least 3 miles in an hour. Only a bit brisker and I can do 6 miles in 90 mins, so surely you'd have to live a good distance out to create major difficulty ?

 

[GodAtum]

But not everyone could walk that distance, either for medical reasons or age. For example Uxbridge station - Hillingdon Hospital is a few miles walk with no other public transport options.

 

[Deerfold]

But not everyone could walk that distance, either for medical reasons or age. For example Uxbridge station - Hillingdon Hospital is a few miles walk with no other public transport options.

What do you expect to be done?

 

[GodAtum]

What do you expect to be done?

I wish I knew. I imagine quite a few people will be unable to get to work.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Lots of people will be "unable" to get to work, but quite a lot fewer will be genuinely unable to get to work. Most London Bus routes are still only used as railheads to the nearest tube or train station. On the edge of town that can be quite a long walk, admittedly, but people that far out will usually be able to drive to the station instead.

On the edge of town I can expect the roads to be much busier, but I think the effect will be a lot less noticeable in town. The tube will be unusable I reckon, but once you're in the centre nowhere is a long walk away.

 

[Feathers44]

I'll be "unable" to get to work but only because the kids aren't going to be able to walk the requisite number of miles to school so I'll have to take them (and collect them) meaning it won't be worth going into the office in the meantime. I may get some work done at home I guess.

Serves us right for relying on public transport for a notionally 'necessary' journey I suppose.

 

[Mikey C]

Lots of people will be "unable" to get to work, but quite a lot fewer will be genuinely unable to get to work. Most London Bus routes are still only used as railheads to the nearest tube or train station. On the edge of town that can be quite a long walk, admittedly, but people that far out will usually be able to drive to the station instead.

On the edge of town I can expect the roads to be much busier, but I think the effect will be a lot less noticeable in town. The tube will be unusable I reckon, but once you're in the centre nowhere is a long walk away.

Good luck finding somewhere to park! And a surprising number of people in London don't have a car anyway.

A fair number of people do use the bus to go to work, as often the convenience of a point to point service and a seat outweighs the longer journey time. Cheaper too.

 

[Busaholic]

Good luck finding somewhere to park! And a surprising number of people in London don't have a car anyway.

A fair number of people do use the bus to go to work, as often the convenience of a point to point service and a seat outweighs the longer journey time. Cheaper too.

The London bus route I know the best these days is the 3, from Oxford Circus to Crystal Palace via Brixton and Dulwich. Many people get on at Oxford Circus to go beyond Brixton, even though they could have caught a tube between those two places which would have been far quicker. As you say, one flat fare of £1.55 or whatever it is now on Oyster plus a seat possibly to quite near where they live can outweigh the speed of the railway/tube and be seamless.

 

[notadriver]

Are they allowed to get other drivers in to cover as they do on tube strike days?

 

[Deerfold]

Are they allowed to get other drivers in to cover as they do on tube strike days?

If they can find them and they're trained and working within their hours I'd assume so.

 

[GodAtum]

Im sure some bus routes have no tube alternative, for example 64 from Selsdon to East Croydon.

 

[Deerfold]

Im sure some bus routes have no tube alternative, for example 64 from Selsdon to East Croydon.

Did anyone think otherwise? Though some people may find the tram useful instead in this example.

 

[GodAtum]

Did anyone think otherwise? Though some people may find the tram useful instead in this example.

Looking at the map it is still 1.5 miles from the tram stop. For myself I could not walk more then half a mile.

 

[Deerfold]

Looking at the map it is still 1.5 miles from the tram stop. For myself I could not walk more then half a mile.

That depends what journey you're making - so why I said "for some people".

I wonder why things like this don't seem to make people appreciate what a good bus service London usually has.

I walked home 1.5 miles from my local station last Thursday with a suitcase as at 2300 there were no buses (or I can choose to spend another £5 on a taxi - doubling my fare from Leeds).

 

[GodAtum]

I do think London has a great bus service, compared to Arriva in Guildford which is diabolical sometimes :roll:

 

[Busaholic]

I do think London has a great bus service, compared to Arriva in Guildford which is diabolical sometimes :roll:

An excellent bus service coupled with seriously low (by U.K. standard) fares, but it does require a lot of public money, not all from London ratepayers. Long may it continue, but it is no wonder that bus travellers in other regions compare their own areas unfavourably to the London experience.

 

[infobleep]

Im sure some bus routes have no tube alternative, for example 64 from Selsdon to East Croydon.

Surbiton to Kingston has no rail route unless you go to new Malden change and then back down. However it's less than 2 miles between the stations if you walk.

Be interesting to see how many are walking on the pavements tomorrow. I wonder if this strike will encourage more people to walk slightly longer distances in future, rather than get the bus. Perhaps more people will realise it doesn't take so long to walk X miles after all.

So many students are on the buses from Surbiton station or before those stops for Kingston University, Penrhyn Road buildings. It's so busy that at times in the morning peak rush hour people trying to board buses after the Surbiton Station / Claremont Road bus stop can't. That is until the students disembark. Then there is enough space once more. At least tomorrow people won't need to hang around wondering how long they will have to wait until a bus comes along with space as there more than likely won't be any.

I'll be "unable" to get to work but only because the kids aren't going to be able to walk the requisite number of miles to school so I'll have to take them (and collect them) meaning it won't be worth going into the office in the meantime. I may get some work done at home I guess.

Serves us right for relying on public transport for a notionally 'necessary' journey I suppose.

A colleague at work takes the bus to work because although there is a train service, it involves changing and the trains are not timed to connect, so it takes just as long if not longer than the bus. As they have a cold they have just taken the day off. If they were to use alternative routes they would have to pay as South West Trains are not accepting bus passes. No TOC is, bar Overground, if they are a TOC.

 

[cool110]

No TOC is, bar Overground, if they are a TOC.

LO is just like Merseyrail being a TOC but with a concession from the local authority instead of the normal DfT franchise.

 

[Busaholic]

Surbiton to Kingston has no rail route unless you go to new Malden change and then back down. However it's less than 2 miles between the stations if you walk.

Be interesting to see how many are walking on the pavements tomorrow. I wonder if this strike will encourage more people to walk slightly longer distances in future, rather than get the bus. Perhaps more people will realise it doesn't take so long to walk X miles after all.

So many students are on the buses from Surbiton station or before those stops for Kingston University, Penrhyn Road buildings. It's so busy that at times in the morning peak rush hour people trying to board buses after the Surbiton Station / Claremont Road bus stop can't. That is until the students disembark. Then there is enough space once more. At least tomorrow people won't need to hang around wondering how long they will have to wait until a bus comes along with space as there more than likely won't be any.




A colleague at work takes the bus to work because although there is a train service, it involves changing and the trains are not timed to connect, so it takes just as long if not longer than the bus. As they have a cold they have just taken the day off. If they were to use alternative routes they would have to pay as South West Trains are not accepting bus passes. No TOC is, bar Overground, if they are a TOC.

You're in the area most likely to see some buses tomorrow, assuming Quality Line aren't affected, so routes 406 and 418 should be operating, also (though not for the general public) the Kingston University bus routes.

 

[infobleep]

94% of bus routes not running according to LBC travel news but Nick Farrier on the LBC Breakfast show says 50% of bus drivers are in with extra staff drafted in on top. If that number of staff are in, surely the number of routes not running can't be that high. Or do over 50‰ of the bus drivers only operate 6% of the bus routes.
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You're in the area most likely to see some buses tomorrow, assuming Quality Line aren't affected, so routes 406 and 418 should be operating, also (though not for the general public) the Kingston University bus routes.

In Oxford the Oxford Brooks University bus routes are open to the public. I don't know why they don't do that at Kingston.

Well currently from Surbiton station the 71, 465 and K1 are running. So there will be services for passengers. The 71 is a double decker. The 465 and K1 are single decker so won't get on those. The 71 runs fairly often, about every 8 minutes I think. Of course traffic and passenger numbers can slow it down so you can get them running in clusters with larger gaps in between.

Update: as if to highlight the erratic nature of London Buses, there is a 20 minute gap between 71s. A service that is timetabled to run every 8-12 minutes. That may be due to the numbers trying to board less buses but there are often gaps between bus services even when there are no strikes. It's just the sheer number of passengers and traffic on Londons roads.

 

[philjo]

Metroline 84 is only running approx half hourly on the Potters Bar station to St Albans section of the route today. no service running from Potters Bar station to New Barnet (which can be done on the train). Also there are no 84As running via St Albans City station.

LONDON BUS STRIKE
Update 0800hrs Tuesday 13 January 2015

School journeys have operated this morning (except from Barnet) and we expect to be able to operate the return journeys this afternoon.

Route 84/84A - We are currently operating a limited daytime service between Potters Bar Station and St Albans on route 84 only, expected to be about half-hourly. There is no service between Potters Bar and Barnet and no 84As today.

Route 242 - We are operating a limited daytime service as resources permit. Buses are not currently serving Waltham Cross Bus Station. Please watch for further details.
Route PB1 - is not expected to run today.
Evening services - we will post updates later in the day but currently do not anticipate the above routes running after approx 1900hrs today.
Tomorrow - we expect normal services to resume tomorrow morning.
Updates - More frequent updates will be posted on our Twitter account @MetrolineH

http://www.metroline.co.uk/routes/london-bus-strike.html

 

[notadriver]

So what would be the best outcome from this strike ? Can tfl force private bus companies to increase wages ? I can't see how they can all pay the same - one rate - when you have several train companies operating in London paying its staff different rates.

 

[infobleep]

Just boarded a 465. Only runs every 30 minutes from Dorking and is the smallest bus along the route I take to Surbiton. It had been due in 6 minutes but unusually for a bus it made up time and I was able to board it at the next bus stop after the Surbiton station / Claremont Road stop. Contrast that with yesterday when passengers at the next bus stop couldn't board any buses due to number of passengers. Usually if a bus is 6 minute late you can add on additional time on top of that for passengers to join and alight. Perhaps in Surbiton at least they should cancel the buses more often. Traffic on Surbiton Road is slightly worse than yesterday though but nothing to terrible.

Of course eventually delayed in Kingston town centre due to a broken down car so I won't be in work any earlier than yesterday when I walked for over 20 minutes.

 

[Antman]

Quite a lot of buses running from both Sutton and Merton garages

 

[South Westerly]

So what would be the best outcome from this strike ? Can tfl force private bus companies to increase wages ? I can't see how they can all pay the same - one rate - when you have several train companies operating in London paying its staff different rates.

Best outcome for who?

TfL contractors bid for routes, based on their costs including wages. If TfL set a higher pay rate then the cost of bids would have to rise. That would mean that either taxes in London would rise, or fares would rise (or both!).

 

[notadriver]

Best outcome for who?

TfL contractors bid for routes, based on their costs including wages. If TfL set a higher pay rate then the cost of bids would have to rise. That would mean that either taxes in London would rise, or fares would rise (or both!).

Best outcome for the drivers in this case ? Unite say the bus companies have plenty of money to spare as they can afford to pay managers and directors record salaries while at the same time reducing costs - driving down wages, terms and conditions for bus drivers.

 

[Antman]

Best outcome for the drivers in this case ? Unite say the bus companies have plenty of money to spare as they can afford to pay managers and directors record salaries while at the same time reducing costs - driving down wages, terms and conditions for bus drivers.

With a tendering system it is inevitable that wages are going to be held down. Abellio have won a lot of routes over the last few years apparently by paying less in wages (and no doubt other expenses too) and Arriva have had to reduce their rates of pay for new recruits in order to compete but they are now struggling to recruit and retain staff.
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So what would be the best outcome from this strike ? Can tfl force private bus companies to increase wages ? I can't see how they can all pay the same - one rate - when you have several train companies operating in London paying its staff different rates.

No I can't see how that will ever happen, wages in West London have always been better than in the east anyway for a variety of reasons, not least Heathrow Airport.