Class 387

[The Box Photter]

Does anyone know if the Brighton-London Bridge shorts will be fully 387 operated from the 5th January then? Many thanks.

Whats' the point of running dual voltage units on 3rd rail only services? The London Bridge - Brighton runs can use any old 3rd rail stock that's going spare. Let them use the 442s that Gatwick Express don't want, or Networkers or the NRM's 4-SUB.

The 377s and 387s should ALL be deployed on trains that run through the core onto the AC electrified lines so they can use their full capability (110mph in the case of the 387s).

North of London passengers have to pay the highest £ per mile of any line into London on their season tickets and have been putting up with a sub-standard service for years. Its time we got a full complement of new trains.

 

[Bald Rick]

The 377s and 387s should ALL be deployed on trains that run through the core onto the AC electrified lines so they can use their full capability (110mph in the case of the 387s).

387s limited to 100mph on MML.

Use of multi-pantographs above 100mph not permitted. Yet.

 

[AM9]

Whats' the point of running dual voltage units on 3rd rail only services? The London Bridge - Brighton runs can use any old 3rd rail stock that's going spare. Let them use the 442s that Gatwick Express don't want, or Networkers or the NRM's 4-SUB.

The 377s and 387s should ALL be deployed on trains that run through the core onto the AC electrified lines so they can use their full capability (110mph in the case of the 387s).

North of London passengers have to pay the highest £ per mile of any line into London on their season tickets and have been putting up with a sub-standard service for years. Its time we got a full complement of new trains.

As has already been explained, the slows would hardly get anywhere near the linespeed let alone the stock speed limit of a 319 or 377. So there's no reason to use the top speed of the 387s, they are restricted to 100mph and are to all intents and purposes 377/8s as originally proposed.

 

[causton]

387s limited to 100mph on MML.

Damn, took one the other day and was looking to see if it would go above 100, I see why it didn't now!

 

[Fincra5]

No because it's 4 via the hills the 2 brightons and the 2 three bridges, plus the 2 London bridge low levels as well. So between three bridges and Croydon there will actually be 6 TL's an hour.

Random day and time in jan http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../01/12/1200?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TL

Ah forgot about the Bridges terminators!

 

[Kite159]

Anybody sampled the first class section yet?

 

[AM9]

Anybody sampled the first class section yet?

Looked at it on 387108 on Tuesday, - then went and sat in the next secton. No difference really.

 

[Class377/5]

387s limited to 100mph on MML.

Use of multi-pantographs above 100mph not permitted. Yet.

Aren't 101/102/104 testing at full speed IIRC.

Whats' the point of running dual voltage units on 3rd rail only services? The London Bridge - Brighton runs can use any old 3rd rail stock that's going spare. Let them use the 442s that Gatwick Express don't want, or Networkers or the NRM's 4-SUB.

The 377s and 387s should ALL be deployed on trains that run through the core onto the AC electrified lines so they can use their full capability (110mph in the case of the 387s).

North of London passengers have to pay the highest £ per mile of any line into London on their season tickets and have been putting up with a sub-standard service for years. Its time we got a full complement of new trains.

What'should the point? Well there isn'the enough stock to run all the services if you didn't. Simple fact is the LBG-BTN diagrams being separate would mean less 12 cars running around and a lower of capacity of both Thameslink and Brighton station as stock would require longer turn around times.

 

[samuelmorris]

That must be some relief for those whose tender nether regions aren't up to the harshness of the new Electrostar seats. They can then check on realtime trains and wait for the next soggy seat train.

Not for 377s - RTT still can't identify any type of electrostar can it?
I assume that's an NR feed problem given it's been going on so long...

 

[samj]

Are the 387s on the 0924 Bedford-Brighton this morning?

 

[W230]

387s limited to 100mph on MML.

Use of multi-pantographs above 100mph not permitted. Yet.

Finally! An answer to the question that seems to be ducked by all at my depot (why can't we do 110mph when the MML is cleared for that in places). So the actual reason is it's not cleared for multi pantographs over 100mph...yes?

I know the SA limits 12 car 319s to 75mph if all the pans aren't Brecknill Willis (well, "high speed") so assume this falls along a similar guise...

 

[physics34]

Anybody sampled the first class section yet?

Different seat moquette that's all.

 

[Class377/5]

Not for 377s - RTT still can't identify any type of electrostar can it?
I assume that's an NR feed problem given it's been going on so long...

It's not RTT fault, planners path trains under 375 timing as most Electrostars are identical. That's why some were confused when early 387 testing was shown as 321s.

 

[samuelmorris]

What I mean is, 357s, 375s, 376, 377s and 379s, presumably now also 387s - all just show as 'Electric Multiple Unit'.
The only ones that don't are amusingly the 378s, which read Class 375!
The same applies to things like 465s too, making it impossible to distinguish which of the two it is (465/376) on a short-distance service with Southeastern.

 

[21C101]

Can anyone tell me why the 377s have floodlights on the roof illuminating the pantographs?

Also as they are pointing backwards shouldn't they be showing red not white?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Looked at it on 387108 on Tuesday, - then went and sat in the next secton. No difference really.

No difference whatsovever. Just stickers on an identical area to the rest of the seating and if you are lucky a little hankerchief stuck on the top of the seat.

The seats really are dreadfully uncomfortable for a ride of just under an hour. The cushions might as well have been made out of wood.

The only good thing about it I can see is that there is no 2+3 seating.

 

[AM9]

Can anyone tell me why the 377s have floodlights on the roof illuminating the pantographs?

Also as they are pointing backwards shouldn't they be showing red not white?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No difference whatsovever. Just stickers on an identical area to the rest of the seating and if you are lucky a little hankerchief stuck on the top of the seat.

The seats really are dreadfully uncomfortable for a ride of just under an hour. The cushions might as well have been made out of wood.

The only good thing about it I can see is that there is no 2+3 seating.

I found the seats fine, plenty of posture support, - just like the 377/7s. It seems that the seat designers are talking to people who understand the difference between perceived comfort and good posture. Hopefully the 700s will also benefit from this contemporary thinking.

 

[Domh245]

Can anyone tell me why the 377s have floodlights on the roof illuminating the pantographs?

Also as they are pointing backwards shouldn't they be showing red not white?

They have floodlights illuminating the pantographs so that they can be recorded (much like the lower lamp by itself at the front) ISTR for infrastructure problems, but potentially to identify any need for preventative maintenance.

They don't need to be red as the red lights on the rear of a train are to indicate that a train is complete - it is not a requirement that all rear facing lamps are red.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Actually, I would be quite happy to travel in a composite carriage on a 'Sub to Brighton but I don't think 4Subs actually ran in traffic with composite accommodation (I stand corrected though). At least they had proper bouncy seats!

 

[21C101]

I found the seats fine, plenty of posture support, - just like the 377/7s. It seems that the seat designers are talking to people who understand the difference between perceived comfort and good posture. Hopefully the 700s will also benefit from this contemporary thinking.

Yeah but you only have to sit on them for 18 minutes or so up to St Albans,

Once you've been on them longer than 40 minutes its most uncomfortable.

Heaven only knows what it is like sitting on them all the way from Bedford to Brighton.

 

[Bald Rick]

Once you've been on them longer than 40 minutes its most uncomfortable.

That's opinion. I've done more than an hour on them and felt fine, indeed almost therapeutic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can anyone tell me why the 377s have floodlights on the roof illuminating the pantographs?

Also as they are pointing backwards shouldn't they be showing red not white?

They're only facing backwards 50% of the time!

Time to wheel out the (true) anecdote that pan cams were first specified by NXEA on the 379s to prove that all the pantograph defects were being caused by dodgy NR OLE, to assist with claims and delay minutes.

The first 2 dewirements with a 379 showed that it was a dodgy pan that brought down the wires. Delay allocated to NX. petard >> hoist.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Finally! An answer to the question that seems to be ducked by all at my depot (why can't we do 110mph when the MML is cleared for that in places). So the actual reason is it's not cleared for multi pantographs over 100mph...yes?

I know the SA limits 12 car 319s to 75mph if all the pans aren't Brecknill Willis (well, "high speed") so assume this falls along a similar guise...

It's to do with the 'wobble' of the wires when a pan goes through. Above 100mph (so the theory goes) the wave formed is such that the next pan catches it at the wrong time, and a dewirement becomes a distinct possibility.

So the answer is to increase the tension in the wires - which is very expensive in headspan areas - or limit multi-pan trains to 100mph.

Incidentally the 387 has a new type of pan, exactly the same as will be on the 700s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Aren't 101/102/104 testing at full speed IIRC.

Not on MML I don't think. WCML is clear for multi pan above 100moh, but only after a lot of testing and paperwork.

 

[21C101]

That's opinion. I've done more than an hour on them and felt fine, indeed almost therapeutic.

Quite a widely shared opinion though, as can be seen on several earlier posts on this thread with some even letting the train go and waiting an extra 15 minutes to get a more comfortable seat.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1968391&postcount=350

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1968650&postcount=354

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1968816&postcount=356

Exactly why do the "cushions" have to be so damn rock hard, even bus seats have more give and spring in the cushions.

Comes to something when you don't want to get off an S stock or D78 when you get to Blackfriars because the seats got more give than what you get up top of the escalator. Still, at least it actually ran today.

 

[Aictos]

Pardon for asking but are there any weekend workings for the Class 387s?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Pardon for asking but are there any weekend workings for the Class 387s?

There was supposed to be an all-day working last Saturday but the 387 got subbed for a 377. So don't count on one turning up...

 

[user15681]

I find the seats on the 387s alright...

 

[AM9]

Yeah but you only have to sit on them for 18 minutes or so up to St Albans,

Well no, I did get on at LBG and it took nearer to 40 minutes to get to St Albans.

Once you've been on them longer than 40 minutes its most uncomfortable.

See reply above. I've also had a very slow journey on a 377/7 from East Croydon to Wenbley, well over 40 minutes.

Heaven only knows what it is like sitting on them all the way from Bedford to Brighton.

Here we go again, the average passenger on Thameslink probably travels for less than 40 minutes. A relatively small proportion of the total goes from St Albans, Harpenden or Luton to as far south of London, typically Gatwick Airport is the most likely destination, and very few go from north of Luton to south of Gatwick. I can't prove all that but I'd put money on it.
Of those few nfortunates who do make the longer trips, I,m sure that not all of them suffer from firmer seats as you seem to.
Thameslink is, like Crossrail will be a, double ended commuter railway, and both are being equipped for the bulk of their passengers' journeys, i.e. from outer suburban areas to the centre of London. The seats in the newer trains are fine for most, who don't of course feel the need to comment.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well no, I did get on at LBG and it took nearer to 40 minutes to get to St Albans.

There was a small tear in my eye when I did that for the last time (for 3 years) yesterday...

(I agree with you by the way)

 

[jon0844]

It would be mostly leisure travellers going all the way. I know this because I've been on a service to Brighton on a Saturday that was packed* with families (and buggies, even taken down the aisles) and we boarded at St Albans. Down on a 377, back on a 319.

While I find the seats fine on both, the 319s were more comfy. Especially as we'd paid for a first class upgrade and you actually felt you were in first class on the latter!

* actually, of the 8 cars, the ones nearest the Brighton end were far less busy.

 

[AM9]

There was a small tear in my eye when I did that for the last time (for 3 years) yesterday...

(I agree with you by the way)

It should be 40 mins. for the last time ever (certainly on an Electrostar), but who knows how well the core will work with ATO and shiny new 700s, (complete with nice firm seats)!

I wonder what the next recipients of the 387s (whoever they are) will say to the seats when they have been nicely bedded in by Thameslink bums for three years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would be mostly leisure travellers going all the way. I know this because I've been on a service to Brighton on a Saturday that was packed* with families (and buggies, even taken down the aisles) and we boarded at St Albans. Down on a 377, back on a 319.

While I find the seats fine on both, the 319s were more comfy. Especially as we'd paid for a first class upgrade and you actually felt you were in first class on the latter!

* actually, of the 8 cars, the ones nearest the Brighton end were far less busy.

I agree that there will be some cross London journeys, (maybe the odd Bedford to Brighton), but even adding in all the family trips on sunny and grey days, they will be a drop in the ocean of London commuters from both Southern Land and MML land travelling about 250 days per year. The Electrostars will of course all return to their Southern duties in 3 years except the 387s which we can't be sure of where they will be (MML Corby or Thames Valley?).

 

[jon0844]

I wonder what the next recipients of the 387s (whoever they are) will say to the seats when they have been nicely bedded in by Thameslink bums for three years.

even adding in all the family trips on sunny and grey days, they will be a drop in the ocean of London commuters from both Southern Land and MML land travelling about 250 days per year.

Are you calling people on Thameslink bums?!!

As for long leisure journeys, of course they'll be the minority as an overall percentage of usage, but with fixed 8 and 12 car trains running these long routes regularly, the DfT must see most of the growth from encouraging more leisure travel on them outside the peaks.

 

[Mike395]

387 is out today - just leaving Luton southbound if anyone can work out the diagram from there