ATW to Rebrand Gerald Premier Service

[berneyarms]

No problem - thank you for the clarification. You just got me worried when you reported three people!

Considering this is a political hot potato, the railway needs as much positive reporting that it can get!!

There certainly were 19 people in first class leaving Newport, and 10 leaving Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

No problem - thank you for the clarification. You just got me worried when you reported three people!

Considering this is a political hot potato, the railway needs as much positive reporting that it can get!!

There certainly were 19 people in first class leaving Newport, and 10 leaving Shrewsbury.

I fully agree, I am sure the passengers on Gerald will find excellent food on ATWs flagship from December 15th.

I am presuming those in First will have to pay for food now? like everyone else.

 

[Gareth Marston]

No problem - thank you for the clarification. You just got me worried when you reported three people!

Considering this is a political hot potato, the railway needs as much positive reporting that it can get!!

There certainly were 19 people in first class leaving Newport, and 10 leaving Shrewsbury.

ATW know that some days it's got a reasonable loading and on others virtually no one, it's not commercially viable that's why they currently get a wad from Welsh Government to run it. The WG budgets are under severe pressure these "non essential commitments" are under scrutiny.

 

[berneyarms]

ATW know that some days it's got a reasonable loading and on others virtually no one, it's not commercially viable that's why they currently get a wad from Welsh Government to run it. The WG budgets are under severe pressure these "non essential commitments" are under scrutiny.

I am fully aware of that and the politics involved - I was merely concerned that the reporting was accurate.

 

[headshot119]

apologies, it was Wednesday evening,met the wife off the train, I was at Gobowen station on Thursday & saw Gerald go through at 1921 I dont report incorrect numbers BTW and local AMs using the train know the score,If 19 were on board as you say,this must be the largest number in first for a long time.

Hardly, 6th of November there where 19 in first departing Newport.

 

[berneyarms]

Hardly, 6th of November there where 19 in first departing Newport.

I think that part of the problem is that, while interesting it is to read the numbers using the train while it passes Wrexham, it isn't in any way the full picture.

You'd need to see what the numbers were leaving Newport each evening to know what the loadings really are.

However, I suspect that Gareth is indeed correct in that the loadings can vary wildly from day to day.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I think that part of the problem is that, while interesting it is to read the numbers using the train while it passes Wrexham, it isn't in any way the full picture.

You'd need to see what the numbers were leaving Newport each evening to know what the loadings really are.

However, I suspect that Gareth is indeed correct in that the loadings can vary wildly from day to day.

Correct the same as the north wales to South Wales traffic per se. It's a small market that is tied to certain times of the days/events/ time of year/day of week.

 

[merlodlliw]

One has to remember the train runs twice a day,however the morning loadings in first, and I see it in Wrexham are always poor on departing,anyhow with 15 runs left, its the end of an era.

Anyone yet know if the food will still be free to first class passengers from 15th December, on another point I am aware the Minister is receiving outcry from cuts being made to other parts of her portfolio and I am sure she would have found it difficult to justify in the Senedd, Welsh Government paying for 5 star meals to first class ticket holders.

No doubt Friday the 12th last Chef Run from Cardiff will be a sell out,mainly enthusiasts no doubt.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Correct the same as the north wales to South Wales traffic per se. It's a small market that is tied to certain times of the days/events/ time of year/day of week.

Would you say that market would be more appropriately served by:

a. 1-3 express services in each direction, similar to original Gerald, but with Wrexham instead of Crewe (Holyhead, Bangor, Llandundo Junc., Rhyl, Fflint, Chester, Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Newport, Cardiff).
b. stopping services every 2hrs throughout the day or
c. all of the above?
d. none of the above (change at Chester all the time)

As for Gerald, given that it is just one train and 1st class loadings often seem to be reported as 'low', my view is that 1st class should be removed but hot meals retained. Should also roll out some similar Manchester-Swansea and Manchester-Holyhead trains if you ask me, might give the maintenance staff some more experience with the stock so they can start to iron out the reliability issues.

 

[ReeceEmmitt]

Apologies, maybe I am missing something, or missing the implication of certain things, but as a regular Monday morning Gerald customer can I ask simply:

Will there be a loco hauled Gerald service calling at Wrexham and Cardiff in the mornings from December 15th?

Thanks in advance...

 

[berneyarms]

Apologies, maybe I am missing something, or missing the implication of certain things, but as a regular Monday morning Gerald customer can I ask simply:

Will there be a loco hauled Gerald service calling at Wrexham and Cardiff in the mornings from December 15th?

Thanks in advance...

To be clear:

The train will still operate.

The only difference is that there will no longer be an onboard chef, and consequently the range of food will be far more limited.

 

[PHILIPE]

Would you say that market would be more appropriately served by:

a. 1-3 express services in each direction, similar to original Gerald, but with Wrexham instead of Crewe (Holyhead, Bangor, Llandundo Junc., Rhyl, Fflint, Chester, Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Newport, Cardiff).
b. stopping services every 2hrs throughout the day or
c. all of the above?
d. none of the above (change at Chester all the time)

As for Gerald, given that it is just one train and 1st class loadings often seem to be reported as 'low', my view is that 1st class should be removed but hot meals retained. Should also roll out some similar Manchester-Swansea and Manchester-Holyhead trains if you ask me, might give the maintenance staff some more experience with the stock so they can start to iron out the reliability issues.

Who's going to pay ? Marketing of trains doesn't enter into the equation so far as DaFT are concerned.

 

[merlodlliw]

To be clear:

The train will still operate.

The only difference is that there will no longer be an onboard chef, and consequently the range of food will be far more limited.

If the food follows the excellent Wrexham and Shropshire choice,it should still be excellent, again any one know if First Class passengers will get a free meal on WG from December 15th.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apologies, maybe I am missing something, or missing the implication of certain things, but as a regular Monday morning Gerald customer can I ask simply:

Will there be a loco hauled Gerald service calling at Wrexham and Cardiff in the mornings from December 15th?

Thanks in advance...

Has mentioned by Berney Arms, its still loco hauled from December 15th,however First Class is under review from May 2015, according to the letter I received from the Minister Edwina Hart.

 

[ReeceEmmitt]

To be clear:

The train will still operate.

The only difference is that there will no longer be an onboard chef, and consequently the range of food will be far more limited.

Excellent. Much more pleasant ride than DMUs.

 

[merlodlliw]

Excellent. Much more pleasant ride than DMUs.

I fully agree,better ride than some of ATWs classes.

 

[trainophile]

If the food follows the excellent Wrexham and Shropshire choice,it should still be excellent, again any one know if First Class passengers will get a free meal on WG from December 15th.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Has mentioned by Berney Arms, its still loco hauled from December 15th,however First Class is under review from May 2015, according to the letter I received from the Minister Edwina Hart.

If First Class is "under review" and they decide to scrap it that will be a shame. ATW should be introducing more First Class, not withdrawing the only service they have. What will they do with the coach?

 

[ReeceEmmitt]

If First Class is "under review" and they decide to scrap it that will be a shame. ATW should be introducing more First Class, not withdrawing the only service they have. What will they do with the coach?

Why? If the market isn't there then why provide the service?

 

[PHILIPE]

Because it is a Welsh Government Vanity project

 

[trainophile]

Why? If the market isn't there then why provide the service?

The current operation doesn't allow any flexibility on travel time, and no weekend service deters leisure travellers. Most TOCs don't have to scrap their First Class through under-use, especially (dare I say it) with the leisure-rich baby boomers using the trains more and more as the demograph ages.

Perhaps they could introduce a trial (borrow trains from elsewhere if possible) to get a feel for the potential demand. Personally I'd use it between Hereford and Manchester if it existed, and would pay up to probably £15 over the standard class ticket to do so. We always go First Class on TPE and FGW nowadays, so it isn't for the food!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Would you say that market would be more appropriately served by:

a. 1-3 express services in each direction, similar to original Gerald, but with Wrexham instead of Crewe (Holyhead, Bangor, Llandundo Junc., Rhyl, Fflint, Chester, Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Newport, Cardiff).
b. stopping services every 2hrs throughout the day or
c. all of the above?
d. none of the above (change at Chester all the time)

As for Gerald, given that it is just one train and 1st class loadings often seem to be reported as 'low', my view is that 1st class should be removed but hot meals retained. Should also roll out some similar Manchester-Swansea and Manchester-Holyhead trains if you ask me, might give the maintenance staff some more experience with the stock so they can start to iron out the reliability issues.

If your serious about wiring the north wales coast and connecting Chester and N Wales into the HS2 hub at Crewe then option a is the only sensible one, there's calls for through trains to Liverpool to consider as well. You can't do everything.
The Manchster to Cardiff route is perhaps the only one where you pick up reasonable first class business in ATW land.

 

[Rhydgaled]

If your serious about wiring the north wales coast and connecting Chester and N Wales into the HS2 hub at Crewe then option a is the only sensible one, there's calls for through trains to Liverpool to consider as well. You can't do everything.
The Manchster to Cardiff route is perhaps the only one where you pick up reasonable first class business in ATW land.

That (in bold) is one of the reasons (a.) is my prefered option too. I suppose if Manchester - Cardiff/Swansea had first class there may be a case for keeping it on Gerald (and friends?) too, but otherwise a business-zone suplement or standard-class only is the way to go I feel.

As for through trains to Liverpool (at least as far as the to-be-resignalled chord is concerned), there's the question of whether they should run from Bangor/Holyhead, Llandudno or Wrexham. Unless the frequencies increase quite a bit, I don't see more than one of those working. Bangor/Holyhead and Llandudno both already have Crewe (for Birmingham) and Manchester as pontential destinations so perhaps the best use of the new chord would be to divert the Cardiff->Holyhead stoppers to Liverpool (and double them to hourly).

 

[Gareth Marston]

That (in bold) is one of the reasons (a.) is my prefered option too. I suppose if Manchester - Cardiff/Swansea had first class there may be a case for keeping it on Gerald (and friends?) too, but otherwise a business-zone suplement or standard-class only is the way to go I feel.

As for through trains to Liverpool (at least as far as the to-be-resignalled chord is concerned), there's the question of whether they should run from Bangor/Holyhead, Llandudno or Wrexham. Unless the frequencies increase quite a bit, I don't see more than one of those working. Bangor/Holyhead and Llandudno both already have Crewe (for Birmingham) and Manchester as pontential destinations so perhaps the best use of the new chord would be to divert the Cardiff->Holyhead stoppers to Liverpool (and double them to hourly).

A two hourly Liverpool to Bristol service would be a better use of capacity down the Marches and be used by more through travellers than the Holyhead trains.

 

[Starmill]

If they reduced the price a bit and made it available on more trains First Class would do very well on Manchester / North Wales + Chester - South Wales. As long as it doesn't come at the expense of Standard Class. I'd use it just for more space and comfort on some of these very long journeys.

 

[merlodlliw]

If First Class is "under review" and they decide to scrap it that will be a shame. ATW should be introducing more First Class, not withdrawing the only service they have. What will they do with the coach?

To put it in context, ATW did not introduce First Class on the Holyhead/Cardiff run, it was Welsh Government who pay for it, ATW simply run the open access service for WG. During these times of austerity the Minister is looking at every avenue of funding. Gerald was started without any market research.
I agree there might be a better take up on the Manchester run from Cardiff, but like the new North Wales to Manchester run, paid for by DB/ATW, no sign of First Class here.

 

[Rhydgaled]

To put it in context, ATW did not introduce First Class on the Holyhead/Cardiff run, it was Welsh Government who pay for it, ATW simply run the open access service for WG. During these times of austerity the Minister is looking at every avenue of funding. Gerald was started without any market research.
I agree there might be a better take up on the Manchester run from Cardiff, but like the new North Wales to Manchester run, paid for by DB/ATW, no sign of First Class here.

Is there any reason why Gerald is open access? I assume the Fishguard services have been added to the franchise, so couldn't WAG add Gerald (and ideally a few extra LHCS rakes for ATW to use at their own discrestion) in the franchise once the current open access contract expires?

 

[paul1609]

Is there any reason why Gerald is open access? I assume the Fishguard services have been added to the franchise, so couldn't WAG add Gerald (and ideally a few extra LHCS rakes for ATW to use at their own discrestion) in the franchise once the current open access contract expires?

With open access if its not a sucess you can just pull the rug ala WSMR

 

[PHILIPE]

Gerald is not a Franchise train and is sponsored by the Welsh Government and not by ATW who only operate it on their behalf. Therefore, it is an Open Access train and cannot work the Fishguard or any other franchise service. Those are the rules of the game.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

To put it in context, ATW did not introduce First Class on the Holyhead/Cardiff run, it was Welsh Government who pay for it, ATW simply run the open access service for WG. During these times of austerity the Minister is looking at every avenue of funding. Gerald was started without any market research.
I agree there might be a better take up on the Manchester run from Cardiff, but like the new North Wales to Manchester run, paid for by DB/ATW, no sign of First Class here.

Just a polite enquiry - why did ATW not opt to have any first class seating on any of their services? Was it their decision or DFT (or WG)?

 

[merlodlliw]

Just a polite enquiry - why did ATW not opt to have any first class seating on any of their services? Was it their decision or DFT (or WG)?

ATW did not inherit any, as for the new Manchester/North Wales loco services ATW want to shift people to and from work without any empty seats.
Anyhow I don't think the market is there for first in North Wales. The Fishguard specials are an extension of the three year trial, not as yet franchise on a regular basis.

 

[Greenback]

I agree that there is a market for first class on the Cardiff to Manchester/Holyhead services, and, if it ever happens, a Liverpool to Bristol service too!

Naturally, we'd need longer trains to allow a small section of first class seating without reducing standard accommodation, which is already pretty full on many trains.