ATW to Rebrand Gerald Premier Service

[trainophile]

Definitely still 1st Advances on sale and First Class Accommodation on those services is in the timetable.

Yes, available ON 12th as I said, but as at yesterday (at least on the eastcoast booking site) there's no 1st Class on 15th or beyond.

 

[merlodlliw]

All of post #110 (which was what I quoted) appeared to me to be about Gerald, except the last sentence - that's why I made the comment when I saw mention of a 175 and a trolley being shades of things to come - I just think we all need to be careful about our phraseology given the confusion/uncertainties involved.

I will look forward to the answers to those questions. I would have asked also, whether a meal facility (microwave or otherwise) would still be provided. A buffet might only provide light snacks!

Ill ask about a microwave etc, the old WAG2 has we called it, two coach 175 had a microwave for bacon rolls etc.
This train still runs, now a franchise service,Ex Llandudno 0830, but no hot food.
Bob

 

[trainophile]

Official - chef catering is finishing on 12th December . At least that's what the delightful lady steward told us last night, and she should know.

It's a total shame, but I can see that it is under-used. Last night there were 8 in 1st out of a potential 24 seats, at least between Cardiff and Hereford. Of course hopefully others boarded further up the track.

We had a wonderful experience and I'm so glad we did it before it's too late. Immediately on boarding it was established that we weren't going far, and our order was rushed to the chef. Food was amazing - beautifully presented, generous portions, hot and as nice as anything I've had in a restaurant ever. We managed the full three courses plus a cup of tea in the hour and 20+ ("luckily" we became a bit delayed en route so were 14 mins late into Hereford, which gave us a little bit of leeway for finishing our meal).

A wonderful experience. Eat your heart out Orient Express! I urge anyone who hasn't done this to try and do it before it finishes.

Oh and if any of the on board staff are reading this... Thank You and Good Luck, you're the best .

 

[merlodlliw]

My wife went to Cardiff on Gerald yesterday morning,she also was told this by catering staff.

The timetable for Dec 15th, is being sent to me today,my AM had a meeting with ATW yesterday, he was given the new timetable.

I have not seen it yet to confirm.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Official - chef catering is finishing on 12th December .

To be replaced by microwaved meals or something similar I hope. If it is reduced to just a trolley then definiate - Never had an evening meal on Gerald (though tried once, was told the menu had been thrown off at Holyhead the day before and not replaced), but the breakfast on board when I did it was good and a great time saver.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, available ON 12th as I said, but as at yesterday (at least on the eastcoast booking site) there's no 1st Class on 15th or beyond.

Afraid not...



This is a First Class Advance Single.

They are still available right through to Jan

 

[trainophile]

Well that's very odd, because I was querying on the southbound service for 15th Dec, which is still coming up with "20 trains unavailable for your selected fare" on First Class Advance Single, and only services with a change when I click on First Class Anytime Single. The 0533 ex-HHD is greyed out. (Sorry don't know how to do thumbnail screen prints.)

However... in the information box for the 0533 it reads:

Restaurant in First Class only
and onboard catering service

Looks like there might be a glitch in the booking systems. Hope when they've sorted it out it's good news not bad.

The steward did say something about microwave meals, and "Business travellers" instead of First Class. Seems there are still aspects being decided on. Probably unfair to speculate too much in the meantime.

 

[PHILIPE]

Reduced catering tonight on 17 16 from Cardiff.

 

[trainophile]

Reduced catering tonight on 17 16 from Cardiff.

Any explanation given? We were lucky to get the full works last night then.

ETA: (ATW Journey Check)

17:16 Cardiff Central to Holyhead due 21:45
First class not available. Catering is reduced between Newport South Wales and Holyhead There is no Premier dining available on this service. A trolley will be available on board to purchase light snacks and refreshments..
This is due to a train fault.
Due to a train fault, a replacement train is in operation for this service.

 

[merlodlliw]

This is happening all too often now,far too many failures.

I received this letter from The Minister yesterday,I can not put it up due to technical reasons, the content is.
Dear Mr...............

Thank you for your letter dated 24th October in regard to the North/South ATW rail services.

I am currently considering options regarding the First Class facilities on the North/South Wales Premier Express service and I have taken note of your comments regarding the matter.

I also take note of your comments regarding Y Gerallt Gymro/Gerald Of Wales train.

Edwina Hart Minister for Economy Science and Transport dated 11th November.

Anyone is welcome to see the original via a pm

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is happening all too often now,far too many failures.

Given the nature of this service, and the removal of catering, might they be better reforming two 175s to 2-car and one to 5-car using the centre cars, fitting First Class seats to an end coach and a trolley dock/microwave, and using that?

Then deploy the LHCS on less taxing, less-far-from-base North Wales Coast services?

Neil

 

[Rhydgaled]

Given the nature of this service, and the removal of catering, might they be better reforming two 175s to 2-car and one to 5-car using the centre cars, fitting First Class seats to an end coach and a trolley dock/microwave, and using that?

Then deploy the LHCS on less taxing, less-far-from-base North Wales Coast services?

Neil

I don't think having one 5-car 175 would be very sensible in terms of stock availability or rostering. 16x 3-car sets would give 8x 5-car and 19x 2-car sets. Personally, depending on whether the sets will need to work Pembrokeshire and/or HOWL services in future, I think a fairly major re-engineering project may be in order with the 175s to convert a number of end vehicles into intermediates. Perhaps you could end up with 7x 4-car and 14x 3-car, for example.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think having one 5-car 175 would be very sensible in terms of stock availability or rostering. 16x 3-car sets would give 8x 5-car and 19x 2-car sets. Personally, depending on whether the sets will need to work Pembrokeshire and/or HOWL services in future, I think a fairly major re-engineering project may be in order with the 175s to convert a number of end vehicles into intermediates. Perhaps you could end up with 7x 4-car and 14x 3-car, for example.

Possibly so...bet they wish they'd specced gangways.

Does Gerald *really* need First Class given that Standard in 175s is pretty well-specced? If not I suppose you could just use a 3 and a 2, though that gives the issue of the trolley being in the wrong half.

Neil

 

[merlodlliw]

Given the nature of this service, and the removal of catering, might they be better reforming two 175s to 2-car and one to 5-car using the centre cars, fitting First Class seats to an end coach and a trolley dock/microwave, and using that?

Then deploy the LHCS on less taxing, less-far-from-base North Wales Coast services?

Neil

There is no chance of a 175 growing bigger than 3 cars, after all who will pay?has Gerald is totally funded by Welsh Government, and Edwina Hart the Minister is not the greatest fan of "Gerald", plus the loco haul stock is still on rental from the Rosco until next year or so, and the Rosco wont give a rebate,why should they.

 

[PHILIPE]

Neither can Gerald work an ATW franchise service as it is sponsored and supported by the Welsh Government and not ATW

 

[merlodlliw]

That is correct Philipe, I am told ATW can only use a franchise set to cover Gerald due to the stops up to Abergavenny,which Orr agreed Gerald could stop at, has occurred last night, due a franchise service allowing Gerald its path.
It may seem complicated, to the layman, But according to ORR rules not a penny of franchise money must be used on open access services,both must be kept separate.

Those of you who recall WAG2 a two coach 175, ORR only gave permission short term for use of a franchise set, until the open access sets were ready for use via Wrexham,

I am still at a loss to understand why the spare set of Gerald appears never to be used, must be some reason for this.

On the morning down,Gerald stops at Wrexham having taken a franchise path,& must stop there,thus allowing use of a 175 when Gerald is ill,which is often now.

 

[berneyarms]

For the record, there are 19 people in 1st Class tonight leaving Newport!

 

[trainophile]

For the record, there are 19 people in 1st Class tonight leaving Newport!

"Drinking in the last chance saloon?" . Word must have got around. Shame it took them so long .

 

[TUC]

The majority of people don't want full catering on trains any more. Years of jokes about railway catering, plus the perceived high prices and lack of quality hot snack type options have all contributed to the decline,

That's the real gap in many long distance services. I agree that most passengers just don't want a meal but I think that some would enjoy something that is more than a sandwich. Aside from bacon sandwiches at breakfast, few offer anything hot snack-like at other times.

 

[Welshman]

"Drinking in the last chance saloon?" . Word must have got around. Shame it took them so long .

Reminds me of the pictures you used to see of hundreds of people turning-out in the 1960s and 70s to see the last train depart before their station and line closed down, and you thought, if only a few more of those had used the service regularly......

 

[PHILIPE]

And when a nearby pub announced it was to close, people came from all over the place with petitions etc., It didn't seem to occur to them they should have used it when it was still open.

 

[berneyarms]

Well most (if not all) of them appeared to be legitimate business customers (not there for the catering per se), but you're not necessarily ever going to have that number every day.

I just thought that in the interests of balance that I'd report some good figures.

 

[trainophile]

Well most (if not all) of them appeared to be legitimate business customers (not there for the catering per se), but you're not necessarily ever going to have that number every day.

I just thought that in the interests of balance that I'd report some good figures.

Out of idle curiosity I'd be interested to know whether they were mostly individuals, or a group/groups travelling together. Also how far they were going.

Recent unreliability might have disuaded some people from booking "the Gerald experience" as a treat, as it would be a let-down if he didn't run and they ended up on a standard service.

 

[berneyarms]

There was a combination of individuals and small groups.

10 were still on after Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to bring some clarity to all of this:

The two chefs are finishing on the weekend of the timetable change. They incidentally are based at Cardiff and work 3 days on, 3 days off. They travel up to Rhyl on Sunday evenings, and back down on Saturday mornings.

The two pairs of ladies who serve first class and who staff the buffet counter (who are based in Holyhead) are continuing to be employed. There will continue to be food on offer, but it will be microwaved, so the range will be significantly less.

I hope that this ends the circle of rumour and counter-rumour.

 

[trainophile]

Presumably chef-prepared and frozen/chilled, to keep some semblance of gourmet fare? Iceland ready meals for one wouldn't quite cut it!

 

[merlodlliw]

There was a combination of individuals and small groups.

10 were still on after Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to bring some clarity to all of this:

The two chefs are finishing on the weekend of the timetable change. They incidentally are based at Cardiff and work 3 days on, 3 days off. They travel up to Rhyl on Sunday evenings, and back down on Saturday mornings.

The two pairs of ladies who serve first class and who staff the buffet counter (who are based in Holyhead) are continuing to be employed. There will continue to be food on offer, but it will be microwaved, so the range will be significantly less.

I hope that this ends the circle of rumour and counter-rumour.

I met Gerald into Wrexham last evening (Thursday), when it left three were in first,around a dozen got off, not sure how many were from first, the catering from December 15th, is almost a replica of Wrexham & Shopshire,one will have to see if it matches W&S quality, Gerald by the way was based on W&S,Andy Hamilton then MD told us at a Wrexham meeting, he was surprised Chefs were being used.
In my letter from Edwina Hart,Minister in charge of WG rail, she tells me First class on Gerald is also being looked at. did put up this letter previous.
Has many have said "Use it or loose it".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably chef-prepared and frozen/chilled, to keep some semblance of gourmet fare? Iceland ready meals for one wouldn't quite cut it!

I would imagine the kind of "foodservice" stuff you get at pubs, though minus the bits requiring a deep fat fryer like chips.

Neil

 

[merlodlliw]

I would imagine the kind of "foodservice" stuff you get at pubs, though minus the bits requiring a deep fat fryer like chips.

Neil

The Wrexham & Shropshire experience for those of us who sampled it found it a far cry from the likes of "Spoons", without the Chef it can be high quality,I am sure ATW are looking at quality, W&S was always voted excellent.
For standard class passengers, the majority who use the service, may well find the choice of food improved from December 15th, although until next May they will have to eat it away from the diner.

 

[berneyarms]

I met Gerald into Wrexham last evening (Thursday), when it left three were in first,around a dozen got off, not sure how many were from first, the catering from December 15th, is almost a replica of Wrexham & Shopshire,one will have to see if it matches W&S quality, Gerald by the way was based on W&S,Andy Hamilton then MD told us at a Wrexham meeting, he was surprised Chefs were being used.
In my letter from Edwina Hart,Minister in charge of WG rail, she tells me First class on Gerald is also being looked at. did put up this letter previous.
Has many have said "Use it or loose it".

Hang on. I was on the train. I got off the train at Chester. At that stage there were NINE people in First Class, not three. I have to say, if you're not sure of numbers then don't be reporting figures that are completely wrong. It's beginning to make me question earlier reported numbers and worry that you are quoting figures to your local AM that are incorrect.

I am not sure how you could have missed six people?

 

[merlodlliw]

Hang on. I was on the train. I got off the train at Chester. At that stage there were NINE people in First Class, not three. I have to say, if you're not sure of numbers then don't be reporting figures that are completely wrong. It's beginning to make me question earlier reported numbers and worry that you are quoting figures to your local AM that are incorrect.

I am not sure how you could have missed six people?

apologies, it was Wednesday evening,met the wife off the train, I was at Gobowen station on Thursday & saw Gerald go through at 1921 I dont report incorrect numbers BTW and local AMs using the train know the score,If 19 were on board as you say,this must be the largest number in first for a long time.