What happens to ES when HS1 shuts?

[itsjamierawr]

I noticed today that there are bus replacements between Ashford Intl and Ebbsfleet Intl, obviously it's fairly easy to replace the domestic service but what do they do about Eurostar? are they diverted somehow, not run at all or do they terminate at Ashford and passengers clear passport control there to board a bus?

 

[philjo]

My interpretation when reading this was that the engineering works were taking place at Ashford station so the Eurostars would just bypass Ashford on HS1. Therefore they would not be affected as there is no mention of disruption for passengers from London.

 

[thelem]

@philejo that might apply in this instance, but I think the question was asked more generally.

What about when the tunnel itself is shut? Or can all work be done overnight?

 

[najaB]

What about when the tunnel itself is shut? Or can all work be done overnight?

I believe that the tunnel is bi-directionally signalled, so they could revert to single track working.

 

[Hophead]

Eurostar would have to terminate at Ashford and do a deal with either Southeastern or some local bus / coach companies.

The trains no longer have a 3rd-rail capability, the drivers would not know the route, there's no way to get the trains to St. Pancras (Waterloo's platforms are slowly being turned over to domestic use) and, in any case, pathing would be somewhat problematic.

 

[Bald Rick]

HS1 was built in such a way that all routine maintenance, and indeed routine track renewal, can be done with trains running on one of the two lines with a speed restriction, or in the periods overnight when no trains operate. Any major stuff is done on Christmas day.

 

[user15681]

As Bald Rick says really.

Tunnel is bi-di with two crossovers between the two running tunnels - located a third and two thirds of the way through.

For this weekend, the possession was only around Ashford station. Specifically the Up and Down Canterbury - platforms 5 and 6, Up and Down CTRL Chord - platforms 3 and 4, part of the down slow, the down fast, Maidstone loop and Maidstone relief. Possession only until 1710 if I remember right.

In general, ES would terminate at Ashford and then an agreement would be in place with the TOC or a bus company.

 

[FlippyFF]

I live about 100 feet from HS1 * at Ashford, I can confirm ES have been running all day and as I type one has just gone whooshing past.

As for overnight maintenance, are there freights using HS1 at night now? To/from Ripple Lane?

* Close to what Realtimetrains calls "Ashford West Jn (Ctrl)"

Simon

 

[edwin_m]

As for overnight maintenance, are there freights using HS1 at night now? To/from Ripple Lane?

There are only a handful of freights so it should be possible to get these past any engineering closures by single line working.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Something that may change how Eurostar/HS1 operates when Ashford is closed is that the Eurostar platforms at the station are not part of HS1 per se, but are actually on the standard NR network and were rebuilt to UIC GB+ gauge (by raising the track level and sluing them away from the platform edge) when Section 1 opened. Unless I'm reading the HS1 (Section 1) Register of Infrastructure wrong, it appears that high speed trains stopping at Ashford also have to cross over to the BR signalling systems rather than remain on the high-speed TVM system as they do on Section 2.

 

[FlippyFF]

Something that may change how Eurostar/HS1 operates when Ashford is closed is that the Eurostar platforms at the station are not part of HS1 per se, but are actually on the standard NR network and were rebuilt to UIC GB+ gauge (by raising the track level and sluing them away from the platform edge) when Section 1 opened. Unless I'm reading the HS1 (Section 1) Register of Infrastructure wrong, it appears that high speed trains stopping at Ashford also have to cross over to the BR signalling systems rather than remain on the high-speed TVM system as they do on Section 2.

There are signs at the HS1 / NR boundaries that have "CTRL" with or without a diagonal line through them which I've always taken to mean either the signalling or maintenance boundaries. (Happy to be corrected). I can't, at the moment, recall if there are 'NR' signs too?

Simon

 

[edwin_m]

Are 373s still fitted with AWS/TPWS, and will 374s be so fitted?

 

[Antman]

If HS1 is closed is it possible to run Javelins via Tonbridge and London Bridge to St Pancras Thameslink station if those lines are not affected by engineering work?

 

[LowLevel]

If HS1 is closed is it possible to run Javelins via Tonbridge and London Bridge to St Pancras Thameslink station if those lines are not affected by engineering work?

I think the approved diversion is to Victoria?

 

[starrymarkb]

If HS1 is closed is it possible to run Javelins via Tonbridge and London Bridge to St Pancras Thameslink station if those lines are not affected by engineering work?

Yes and not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if ECTS isn't overlaid at some point (IIRC HS1 is going to be fitted with ECTS in the not to distant future so it may be easier to put ECTS level 1 - level one is just repeaters of the existing signals.)

 

[455driver]

HS1 was built in such a way that all routine maintenance, and indeed routine track renewal, can be done with trains running on one of the two lines with a speed restriction, or in the periods overnight when no trains operate. Any major stuff is done on Christmas day.

WHAT, no trains on Christmas day!
How dare those lazy traincrew have a day off, it is disgusting, dont they realize there are thousands of people who want to go to Paris shopping on Christmas day, they should be made to work!



Just thought I would start this years moanfest off a bit early!

 

[Clip]

WHAT, no trains on Christmas day!
How dare those lazy traincrew have a day off, it is disgusting, dont they realize there are thousands of people who want to go to Paris shopping on Christmas day, they should be made to work!



Just thought I would start this years moanfest off a bit early!

You get earlier every year

 

[FOH]

As Bald Rick says really.
For this weekend, the possession was only around Ashford station. Specifically the Up and Down Canterbury - platforms 5 and 6, Up and Down CTRL Chord - platforms 3 and 4, part of the down slow, the down fast, Maidstone loop and Maidstone relief. Possession only until 1710 if I remember right.

A ha, this explains why yesterday I was on a train from Paris where the screens said only London yet the train manager announced Ashford as well. Needless to say we swept through Ashford at high speed but then crawled from Ebbsfleet (presumably we were early and caught up with a Javelin).

 

[FlippyFF]

WHAT, no trains on Christmas day!
How dare those lazy traincrew have a day off, it is disgusting, dont they realize there are thousands of people who want to go to Paris shopping on Christmas day, they should be made to work!



Just thought I would start this years moanfest off a bit early!

Are they (Southeastern HS) running again on Boxing Day this year?

 

[user15681]

Are they (Southeastern HS) running again on Boxing Day this year?

Indeed.

 

[cossie4i]

are they (southeastern hs) running again on boxing day this year?

0800-2000, Ashford to St P and back nothing else.

 

[Clip]

0800-2000, Ashford to St P and back nothing else.

Not bad that to bag the sales at Ashford outlets.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes and not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if ECTS isn't overlaid at some point (IIRC HS1 is going to be fitted with ECTS in the not to distant future so it may be easier to put ECTS level 1 - level one is just repeaters of the existing signals.)

Don't think Javelins have ECTS anyway - only TVM for HS1 and AWS/TPWS for the classic network.

I doubt Javelins are permitted through the Thameslink core and I don't know why anyone would want to do this as there won't be the capacity to take diverted services. Also Javelin 25kV mode is presumably optimised for the constant height overhead of HS1 so could cause all sorts of trouble on the up-and-down overheads of Thameslink.

 

[Class377/5]

If HS1 is closed is it possible to run Javelins via Tonbridge and London Bridge to St Pancras Thameslink station if those lines are not affected by engineering work?

No way is a Javelin allowed through the Core. Only the 319s, 377/2, 377/5, 387/1 and 376 (as far as Smithfield Sidings but not to Farringdon) currently permitted north of Blackfriars platforms. In four years everything bar the 700s will be banned from entering in service.

 

[Bald Rick]

No way is a Javelin allowed through the Core. Only the 319s, 377/2, 377/5, 387/1 and 376 (as far as Smithfield Sidings but not to Farringdon) currently permitted north of Blackfriars platforms. In four years everything bar the 700s will be banned from entering in service.

Think we might let the odd 377/5 through if someone asks nicely.

 

[AM9]

Don't think Javelins have ECTS anyway - only TVM for HS1 and AWS/TPWS for the classic network.

I doubt Javelins are permitted through the Thameslink core and I don't know why anyone would want to do this as there won't be the capacity to take diverted services. Also Javelin 25kV mode is presumably optimised for the constant height overhead of HS1 so could cause all sorts of trouble on the up-and-down overheads of Thameslink.

Aren't the 395s a bit long for some of the bends as well?

 

[NotATrainspott]

Aren't the 395s a bit long for some of the bends as well?

The 395s have the same 20m carriage length as almost every other train on the Southern network.

 

[thelem]

Think we might let the odd 377/5 through if someone asks nicely.

We can't, because they don't have the ATO equipment. It'll all be 700s (assuming the TLP is finished in four years time).

 

[cossie4i]

Don't think Javelins have ECTS anyway - only TVM for HS1 and AWS/TPWS for the classic network.

I doubt Javelins are permitted through the Thameslink core and I don't know why anyone would want to do this as there won't be the capacity to take diverted services. Also Javelin 25kV mode is presumably optimised for the constant height overhead of HS1 so could cause all sorts of trouble on the up-and-down overheads of Thameslink.

395s also have KVB which is the signalling system used between St Pancras and LT1.
395s can be used on domestic AC but restricted to 100mph. The units have 3 power modes, CTRL, DC and AC hidden under a protective cover.

 

[Class377/5]

Think we might let the odd 377/5 through if someone asks nicely.

We can't, because they don't have the ATO equipment. It'll all be 700s (assuming the TLP is finished in four years time).

Look at my username.