Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[Scott M]

Yeah, the 4 sidings can get pretty chaotic at times. I believe the 4 lanes can handle around 12 Metrocars (or possibly 10) as two (or possibly one) can take extra metrocars. The last time I saw Pelaw full though was in the peak when the core route through Monument was blocked by a failed train and I remember them having to send quite a few of the Pelaw trains down towards Shields because Pelaw was full. With some of the trains from South Shields terminating at Jarrow, and some of the Pelaw trains turning back at Hebburn or in some instances Jarrow / Bede.

People not standing back doesn't surprise me! I do think most commuters have a death wish as they always seem to stand on the yellow line or in some cases in front of it. I've stood on the yellow line once and when you have a hoard of people behind you it really isn't a comfortable position. You have to have a lot of trust in the people behind you not to nudge you.

So, the 0824 would have been absolutely chaotic I would imagine then? It amazes me that Metro think the 12 minutes is a fine frequency in the peak, the South Hylton line is busy, but never as busy as the Shields line. I used to do the Shields peak trains in the morning heading into town and they were unbearable if the 0817 off JAR was 3 minutes late, and if the 0805 was a no show or was late, then that would be unbearable. Even on the odd day when the service is running to time (:P) the trains are rammed. I did decide to go over to Fellgate at the same time as I would be on the Shields train and the train was no where near as busy.

I am surprised in the AM peak there is no additional service which extends from Pelaw down to Jarrow P1, where it then heads into Bede P2 for the journey back to Newcastle. It would require a small rejig of the AM timetable, but me being me, a few months back I did actually draw up a small timetable change just to see what would happen and it worked. One additional service to Bede and it would help clear platforms, and would also be a shorter service so those at Hebburn would be less likely to be late. I recall last year lots of kids where late for college because they couldn't board the train. Now they should be leaving to get the earlier train, but then to me having drawn up my own little timetable, I thought they should still be able to get there if only there was an additional service.

Yeah I also feel uncomfortable when I am near the yellow line with a lot of people behind me. As you say you have to trust them. Even when there isn't a lot of people around me, I start to (irrationally) think 'The guy behind me could be a psycho who is gonna push me', so I move away when a train arrives.

And yeah the 0824 was ridiculous - there was a fair few people who couldn't fit onto it. It was 'match day' full as opposed to 'rush hour' full (i.e. basically too full to accept passengers). And yeah the South Shields trains are ridiculously busy in the morning. All the seats are usually gone by Chichester. It has the double-whammy of South Shields being a major bus terminus, and Chichester being a popular bus stop and metro station too (as everybody from the Harton area etc also get on there). I am a bit surprised to hear the Hylton line isn't as busy!

And that is an interesting thought regarding the extra services to Bede. I would imagine it'd all come down to driver and train availability, and also they probably don't want too many trains in service at once, as that means if one breaks down there is a lot of clutter on the line. Also more trains = more chance of a train failure. If metro was reliable, I would say to do it, however with current reliability I could imagine it just causing a bit of chaos. ;p Btw did you take into account the fact it is single-line when drawing up your timetable?

Other thoughts:

-Glad Nexus have invested in that rail adhesion thing. Hopefully will stop delays. Will be interesting to see it out and about

-Probably no point in doubling up the single tracks between Pelaw and Bede, as the current format seems to allow the timetable to run seamlessly

-Never use buses, so a Nexus take-over wouldn't affect me. Can't see it happening, but would be a long-term benefit imo as they could standardize things e.g. pop cards used across all of the transport mediums

-Surprised North Shields and Tynemouth are trouble hot-spots. I always thought they were 'posh' areas. I have been told Meadow-well is a particularly bad area, but couldn't comment myself as never been there (as a side note, if you ever go onto that stretch of track, look in people's back gardens - literally everybody seems to have a trampoline!).

-South Shields - Hebburn doesn't seem too bad. I live in the area, and although Chichester can attract chavs at night, it doesn't seem to be overly-bad. However I definitely agree with Modern in that if you're gonna use the metro late, use it late as in 2230 onwards - the system is pretty much dead by then, as are the streets for that matter. As said though, that goes out the window on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

[Paul_10]

About that, well erm... They didn't number the panels as they removed them so... well... erm... they can't put them back in because they don't know what order they go in, in.

Oh lordy... If that was the case then theres a chunk of money gone down the drain! I suppose we got the artwork to brighten things up though. :roll:

Regarding that crime table(which is what i was talking about) then people may look at the criminal damage section and be surprised too see how Airport has more criminal damage than Meadow Well(how that got '0' i will never know) but reports of criminal damage includes whenever drivers reports any etched windows on the trains at terminus station. At least i think thats what one poster said before in the past but it would make more sence if that was the case.

 

[ModernRailways]

And that is an interesting thought regarding the extra services to Bede. I would imagine it'd all come down to driver and train availability, and also they probably don't want too many trains in service at once, as that means if one breaks down there is a lot of clutter on the line. Also more trains = more chance of a train failure. If metro was reliable, I would say to do it, however with current reliability I could imagine it just causing a bit of chaos. ;p Btw did you take into account the fact it is single-line when drawing up your timetable?

-Surprised North Shields and Tynemouth are trouble hot-spots. I always thought they were 'posh' areas. I have been told Meadow-well is a particularly bad area, but couldn't comment myself as never been there (as a side note, if you ever go onto that stretch of track, look in people's back gardens - literally everybody seems to have a trampoline!).

-South Shields - Hebburn doesn't seem too bad. I live in the area, and although Chichester can attract chavs at night, it doesn't seem to be overly-bad. However I definitely agree with Modern in that if you're gonna use the metro late, use it late as in 2230 onwards - the system is pretty much dead by then, as are the streets for that matter. As said though, that goes out the window on Friday and Saturday nights.

- For my plan it wouldn't require any extra trains or drivers as it was simply extending what is currently a Pelaw terminator down to Bede.

- I always thought they were myself As with everywhere you have your bad spots and I think the Metro is right in on those bad spots instead of being in the more nicer areas. In fact, I'd say that is a problem for the most of Metro really. It goes through the rougher parts of the towns instead of the nicer parts.

- I think it all depends. You could be lucky and get the chavs that are just using it to get somewhere else, or there are the chavs using it to simply cause trouble and go out of there way to annoy people. Last trains (2nd last, and last), it's not so much that it's dead it's more that the ones who are out to cause trouble are already where they need to be and so aren't travelling anymore with the exception of Friday and Saturday, and even Sundays to an extent.

 

[Kite159]

First thoughts on my T&W Metro trip:

Seats are comfy for the distance, with good window sills to rest an arm against, with the seats lining up with the windows. The front seat is rather popular. I think pretty much all the stations stopped at had someone getting on or off.

And they emergency stop quite well, the driver making sure that if anybody was injured to let him know so they could stop at the next station to get the paramedics if needed.

The section of dual running on the NR track between Pelaw & Sunderland would be interesting to see what NR do if they decide to wire it up.

 

[Scott M]

First thoughts on my T&W Metro trip:

Seats are comfy for the distance, with good window sills to rest an arm against, with the seats lining up with the windows. The front seat is rather popular. I think pretty much all the stations stopped at had someone getting on or off.

And they emergency stop quite well, the driver making sure that if anybody was injured to let him know so they could stop at the next station to get the paramedics if needed.

The section of dual running on the NR track between Pelaw & Sunderland would be interesting to see what NR do if they decide to wire it up.

Yeah the seats are quite comfy, and being used to the metro I usually attempt to put my arm on the window sill at least 4 times per NR journey only for my elbow to slide down.

But yeh glad you liked your journey. While you were at it you should have came down to Bede and Jarrow this morning - then you'd have found out what 'wheel slip' really means. It was so bad that the sound/feeling of the wheels spinning and the train going nowhere was comparable to a car attempting to move on ice/mud.

Then the sweet smell of steel on steel sliding filled the carriage.

 

[ModernRailways]

But yeh glad you liked your journey. While you were at it you should have came down to Bede and Jarrow this morning - then you'd have found out what 'wheel slip' really means. It was so bad that the sound/feeling of the wheels spinning and the train going nowhere was comparable to a car attempting to move on ice/mud.

Then the sweet smell of steel on steel sliding filled the carriage.

Ah, I'm not the only one who's had that then! Yesterday evening the driver did around 5km/h departing Jarrow until the first signal after the station were he applied small amounts of throttle. Even trundling along the wheelslip was incredible and if this new Nexus machine is really out on the system then it's not doing a very good job - delays this evening due to low adhesion, granted it's to be expected but not like it is. I've never experienced wheelslip like I have lately on the Shields branch, normally it's relatively fine with the odd slip.

 

[Paul_10]

Weather conditions were perfect for wheel slip though last night, drizzly rain with falling leaves, there is not a lot that can be done at that time of day anyways so can you really judge on this new machine basing on your experience?

Obviously cutting/trimming trees will be a better solution but of course then you got the issues with local councils and residents. Theres no easy solution to the problem really.

 

[ModernRailways]

Weather conditions were perfect for wheel slip though last night, drizzly rain with falling leaves, there is not a lot that can be done at that time of day anyways so can you really judge on this new machine basing on your experience?

Obviously cutting/trimming trees will be a better solution but of course then you got the issues with local councils and residents. Theres no easy solution to the problem really.

I'm saying that yesterday it was significantly worse, possibly for the reasons you mentioned. However, I've been on the Metro a lot recently yet every time we've had wheelslip of some sort. I got the train at around 0620 the other day and we had wheelslip then, now if something had sprayed the tracks we shouldn't be getting the amount of slipping we had.

It amazes me how the national rail network can cope when for a large portion trees are lining the side of the railway. Yes, they have an RHTT but why don't Metro have similar.

From what I've heard the 'new' RHTT for Metro is just the old Tamper as it wasn't being used since they got the new one.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Well at least its an improvement! That actually makes great sense as i saw the old tamper vehicle positioned in one of the sidings next to the maintenance shed (the one where they store the tampers) at Regent Centre - It was the first time i'd saw a train on the track down there, I actually thought that siding was disuses as it looked overgrown.


On Saturday the adhesion wasn't too bad at all apart from near Benton where you really could feel it. However it is ever so frustrating that the temporary speed limit at Fawdon seems to become a fixture, probably due to adhesion! :-x

 

[ModernRailways]

Some good news on the Pop card front. The Quaylink service Q1 and Q2 have started accepting them!

More info: http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/quaylink-buses-now-accept-passengers-pop-card

A flagship city bus route has become the first in Tyne and Wear to accept passengers with a Pop card, in a major boost for integration between bus and Metro services.

Metro customers can now use their Pop cards to travel on the QuayLink bus, which connects the major attractions on the Newcastle-Gateshead Quays.

This added benefit for Pop card holders was introduced from Sunday, 12 October.

The QuayLink buses, services Q1 and Q2 which are operated by Go North East, are fitted with smartcard readers that will accept Pop cards loaded with a MetroSaver, a student MetroSaver, a 16-18 MetroSaver and corporate MetroSavers.

All passengers need to do when they board the QuayLink bus is touch their Pop card on to the smartcard reader. They do not need to show it to the bus driver.

Director of Finance and Resources for Nexus, John Fenwick, said: “This is a significant development for users of public transport and it shows that recent investment in smart technology is proving beneficial.”

The roll out of Pop cards on QuayLink forms part of the investment in smart travel across the region led by NESTI, the North East Smart Ticketing Initiative. NESTI is a partnership of 12 local authorities, the North East Combined Authority and Nexus.

The move comes as the use of smartcards on the Metro system increases, with more than 100,000 Pop cards and other smartcards in circulation.

The QuayLink bus service has been enabled for smartcard acceptance since 2011.

The buses are already capable of accepting national concessionary travel passes (the pensioners’ free bus pass) and Go North East’s own smartcard product, the key card.

QuayLink is a secured bus service which is funded by Gateshead Council, Newcastle City Council and Nexus. It is operated under contract by Go North East.

QuayLink will run up to every ten minutes during the daytimes and gives the best links to all of the attractions that NewcastleGateshead offers.

Service Q1 runs between Gateshead, The Sage, Gateshead College, Baltic, the Quayside and Newcastle

Service Q2 runs between Newcastle, the Quayside, Ouseburn and St Peter’s Basin.

 

[Paul_10]

Quite a fair amount of infrastructure problems have occured in the past week or so with points failures and signalling faults occuring, certainly not good at all.

I think I mentioned not long ago in this thread that whilst the metro suffered its fair amount of problems, it was good too see none of these seemed to involved issues with infrastructure but its one of those where no significant issues have occured and now they are all coming at once!

 

[Scott M]

- For my plan it wouldn't require any extra trains or drivers as it was simply extending what is currently a Pelaw terminator down to Bede.

- I always thought they were myself As with everywhere you have your bad spots and I think the Metro is right in on those bad spots instead of being in the more nicer areas. In fact, I'd say that is a problem for the most of Metro really. It goes through the rougher parts of the towns instead of the nicer parts.

- I think it all depends. You could be lucky and get the chavs that are just using it to get somewhere else, or there are the chavs using it to simply cause trouble and go out of there way to annoy people. Last trains (2nd last, and last), it's not so much that it's dead it's more that the ones who are out to cause trouble are already where they need to be and so aren't travelling anymore with the exception of Friday and Saturday, and even Sundays to an extent.

Well if it is do-able I am all for it, sick of not getting a seat in morning rush hour.

Agree with you that metro is in a lot of bad spots.

Ah, I'm not the only one who's had that then! Yesterday evening the driver did around 5km/h departing Jarrow until the first signal after the station were he applied small amounts of throttle. Even trundling along the wheelslip was incredible and if this new Nexus machine is really out on the system then it's not doing a very good job - delays this evening due to low adhesion, granted it's to be expected but not like it is. I've never experienced wheelslip like I have lately on the Shields branch, normally it's relatively fine with the odd slip.

Yeah I agree, there is usually some but not as much as there has been lately - particularly in the mornings. Jarrow seems to be a hot-spot for it. Driver had to use the emergency breaks at Tyne Dock to stop in time the other day because it was slipping so bad.

Quite a fair amount of infrastructure problems have occured in the past week or so with points failures and signalling faults occuring, certainly not good at all.

I think I mentioned not long ago in this thread that whilst the metro suffered its fair amount of problems, it was good too see none of these seemed to involved issues with infrastructure but its one of those where no significant issues have occured and now they are all coming at once!

Agreed. Trains now off between Monument and Heworth in both directions due to problem with the overhead line. They're having a nightmare this week! Lots of people trying to get to the match are stuck.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Todays service has been ever so poor, I was stuck at West Jesmond due to the point failure and we were waiting for a good 25 minutes. I believe this is the second time South Gosforth points have failed this week which isn't a good sign at all as well at Tynemouth points also being unserviceable. However I disagree that the staff are poor on the gates, i frequently use them at Monument, Haymarket and Gateshead and although they can be an arse if you start talking to them, they often help those who get stuck and the response to the South Gosforth incident is probably the best they could have done, to be fair if the points aren't working no one is going anywhere. Metro also had a dispatcher out with his green flag so it wasn't as if they left people out of the loop as my driver made the announcement 3 times albeit with a 10 minute delay before the first announcement and the stations all had the Control informing ever few minutes I'd say a good response to a bad situation.

Question: Haven't they recently renewed South Gosforths points? and the OHLE

The slip today was rather bad. To point out a few we just jolted across Fawdon level crossing and you could hear the driver try again to get traction followed by Ilford Road where we literally didn't move. Although it was ever so nice to be on a golden oldie, 4027 (BBBRRR doors closing)

The old tamper vehicle seems to always be in the sidings next to the outcast shed so it must have been converted to a grinder (or whatever they are called) as it previously was rarely in site during the day.

 

[ModernRailways]

I actually said thanks to Metro yesterday morning for the information. They were sending announcements every 2 minutes, and my 2 drivers both spoke, apologising for the disruption. However, read on...

Yesterday's problem at Hebburn was the biggest joke going and the Duty Manager needs sacked. There was no reason for the disruption as trains pass at Jarrow and Pelaw, so as long as the trains are on time then there will only be a 20 second delay to trains towards Newcastle due to the fact trains need to be specially dispatched. Two operational managers were sent down straight away and I believe there was only 1 service that was actually significantly delayed at this point. The managers got there with their flags to dispatch trains from P1 towards Pelaw, and the delay was minimal and could have been avoided on subsequent services. However, the Duty Manager decided that it would be a good idea to send those operational managers to actually go and alter the points manually to allow both platforms to re-open. They got set up, but where then told to go back to P1 and dispatch trains as all trains would have to continue using P1. So they've just wasted 10 minutes setting up to manually change the points, so they now have to pack whatever they needed away and head back over to P1. This has now led to a huge backlog of trains at both Pelaw and Jarrow through to Shields. At one point, there was a train at Pelaw Junction, Pelaw, Heworth/Pelaw, Heworth, Felling/Heworth, Felling, Gateshead/Stadium tunnel. 3 of those were South Shields trains. Two of which terminated at Pelaw so that South Hylton trains could continue running.

Trains were too busy to board safely - and it was worse than a Match Day / AM peak with delays. It took me 55 minutes to get from Monument to Jarrow and I was lucky enough to be able to stay on one train all the way through. We were stopped at Pelaw Junction for what was around 9 minutes without a peep from the driver. Would a 10 second announcement saying something like 'Sorry for the slight delay but there is a points failure at Hebburn which is causing a backlog of trains. Hopefully we will be on the move shortly.' have killed the driver.

Apparently the operational managers at Hebburn were going absolutely crazy and I'm not surprised. A service every 12 minutes with minimal delay could have occurred, but the Duty Manager decided to be incompetent and in the middle of the peak decided to try a stupid idea out that would only cause more delays.

Just for comparison, on my way to Newcastle there was the same problem but all trains were using P1 with the operational managers using flags etc. to dispatch the service. It took 2 minutes more than normal and that was because we were stuck outside Pelaw waiting for a delayed Airport service to go through and then for a train to leave Pelaw sidings. So from 19 minutes, to 56 all because a Manager took a stupid decision.

Thankfully, I haven't been on the system today but it seems to have been another day to forget.

Well if it is do-able I am all for it, sick of not getting a seat in morning rush hour.

It may not mean getting a seat, but it would mean more comfortable conditions if you had to stand rather than the current just cram everyone in.

Agreed. Trains now off between Monument and Heworth in both directions due to problem with the overhead line. They're having a nightmare this week! Lots of people trying to get to the match are stuck.

After seeing the result I bet Metro where doing them a favour - unless they were Southampton fans

Question: Haven't they recently renewed South Gosforths points? and the OHLE

Yes, all part of their fantastic Modernisation which so far has been a shambles. Refurbished trains have the highest failure rate right now on the system - granted there are more of refurbished:unrefurbished.

 

[142094]

Trains on a night time, normally after 6pm, pass at Hebburn. There is no way of running a 12 minute service using only one platform at Hebburn as in effect the whole section between Pelaw and Jarrow is single line so there are no passing points. One train would have to run early and one would have to run late.

 

[Scott M]

Some funny comments I seen on their facebook page today:

Tyne and Wear Metro 4 hours ago
The earlier delay between Monument and Heworth has now cleared. This was due to problem with the overhead line.

Daniel Patrick
Next Delay place your bets. Good odds at 3 to 1 on low rail adhesion. Signal failure the outsider at 18 to 1

Tyne and Wear Metro 8 hours ago
There are no trains running between South Gosforth and Four Lane Ends in both directions, this is due to signalling problems. We will update you once we have more information.

Alan Grist
Haha not again.. is this the same fault as yesterday? On has a stray leaf fell on your cables?

 

[ModernRailways]

Trains on a night time, normally after 6pm, pass at Hebburn. There is no way of running a 12 minute service using only one platform at Hebburn as in effect the whole section between Pelaw and Jarrow is single line so there are no passing points. One train would have to run early and one would have to run late.

I believe it is around 1830 when trains start passing at Hebburn - it's when the service goes to every 15 minutes.

That's essentially what happens anyway, the problem itself was fixed at around 1815 I was told. At a 12 minute frequency trains pass at Jarrow and then at Pelaw/Pelaw Junction so in essence trains are running single line at that point in time with the only difference being that trains toward Newcastle use P1 instead of the normal P2. Trains must also be dispatched using flags, which as I said adds maybe 10-20 seconds onto the dwell time. Certainly not causing a delay of 45 minutes+ as the train heading down towards Shields from Pelaw is usually 1 or 2 minutes late in the peaks regardless.

As I said, heading towards Newcastle it took me 2 minutes longer than normal and that was because of a delayed Airport train and a Pelaw short train leaving the sidings. At that point all trains were using P1. However, they then decided to attempt to set the points manually, but then changed their mind thus resulting in trains being 45+ minutes late or not bothering to run at all, instead becoming Pelaw terminators.

As for when the service reduced to every 15 minutes, I still agree with wait I suggested anyway. A 5 minute delay is a lot better than a 15+ delay is it not? The delay would more likely be 4 minutes, as the trains towards South Shields usually have to hold at Hebburn for a minute or two to let the train towards Pelaw come off the single line. 2 minutes for the train to get to Jarrow, resulting in the Pelaw train being 2 minutes late, then 2 minutes for the Pelaw train to reach Hebburn, 4 minutes late and if the train towards South Shields is slightly early like it usually is then the delay is less.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Currently sat on 4047 running 23L. It has the new announcements with that god annoying man. I wouldn't mind them if they flowed better but they don't...

 

[MetroCar4058]

Another rather poor day, slip has been very bad between Ilford Road and West Jesmond, on 4045 i got the lovely grinding steel smell when we were breaking and then on 4069 the train struggled to get going again, slowly gliding along to regain traction, this is when she was already 5 minutes late.

Today there was no information on an Airport train on the board at Monument, so I thought it had been took out of service, but then a few minutes later it appeared on the board as 7 minutes and took ages to get to Monument, what could have caused the train not to display on the info board

 

[Scott M]

Another rather poor day, slip has been very bad between Ilford Road and West Jesmond, on 4045 i got the lovely grinding steel smell when we were breaking and then on 4069 the train struggled to get going again, slowly gliding along to regain traction, this is when she was already 5 minutes late.

Today there was no information on an Airport train on the board at Monument, so I thought it had been took out of service, but then a few minutes later it appeared on the board as 7 minutes and took ages to get to Monument, what could have caused the train not to display on the info board

A lot of wheel slip on the Shields-Pelaw section today too. Also I got stuck at a red just before the bridge you pass under before entering Heworth platform 2. Didn't even know there was a signal there as it must be almost always on green.

Driver ended up passing it at danger - which worries me that this signal problem might be more widespread than first thought. Which would suggest a week of delays to come.

And that suggests to me that the train perhaps started at South Gosforth.

 

[ModernRailways]

A lot of wheel slip on the Shields-Pelaw section today too. Also I got stuck at a red just before the bridge you pass under before entering Heworth platform 2. Didn't even know there was a signal there as it must be almost always on green.

Driver ended up passing it at danger - which worries me that this signal problem might be more widespread than first thought. Which would suggest a week of delays to come.

And that suggests to me that the train perhaps started at South Gosforth.

That signal is often red in the peaks. Trains usually approach it slowly as it clears quite quickly.

Just out of curiosity (well...), but did the driver make a PA telling you they were passing it at danger? And if so, do you remember a rough idea of what was said?

Last night, Metro posted that the Disruption was cleared. That was a complete lie, the last train to South Hylton terminated early at Sunderland as it ran 20L. The last South Shields service terminated early at Pelaw running 25L. The second to last Shields train ran approx. 34L, with the last Sunderland service terminating early somewhere in Newcastle - possibly Monument. Trains running through to Shields were terminating at Jarrow with the next train then continuing through to Shields so a 30 minute service to South Shields - even then trains were so delayed they were following each other. I was waiting at Gateshead for around 24 minutes before the first train showed, then there were 3 within 4 minutes and they were all last trains.

Hopefully, the delays and problems will be fixed for tomorrow but if not Metro (and Nexus Rail) will have serious questions to answer.

In fact, I shouldn't really blame Metro for these delays - with the exception of the cock up at Hebburn (even then that was partially Nexus' fault though as it was the points that failed) - Nexus Rail are the ones who maintain track, points and other general infrastructure and from what I've so far seen train reliability was actually really quite good last week with the odd exception, the problem though was that we had the delays which in turn messed the system up anyway and as a result meant train reliability didn't really look too good to Joe public who want their train to be on time.

The incidents at South Gosforth are becoming too common now though, it's been 4 or 5 in the past week (including Friday 10th onwards) so it makes me think there is a bigger underlying problem up there. I would love to know what caused the points failure at Hebburn too!


Finally, Metrocar 4047 has that annoying git on with the new announcements. And I think I know why I don't like him. He is too human sounding and so because it isn't smooth it doesn't sound right. It's very jumpy, because it's all mashed together. A more robot sounding voice sounds better being mashed together because it has a better flow. His announcement for Heworth for example changed pitch so much because they've mashed the 'Next station is Heworth.' with 'Change here for local buses', and then 'This trains is for Manors.' so it's all a different pitch and tone and just generally sounds off. I don't understand why Nexus/Metro wasted money on him when the current announcements were suitable and whilst weren't local were understandable for tourists. She had a nice crisp, clear and for the most part flat tone. Their is one good thing about him though, he may help drive away the chavs because they don't want to listen to him

 

[MetroCar4058]

My train was for Airport so it definitely didn't come into service at South Gosforth, I thought it might have came in at Pelaw but that's more than 7 minutes? And why would it come in from there at that time of day unless there was a fault but I didn't think trains could go into the sidings from P2 and if so it was a quick turn around being only 5 minutes delayed

Nexus Rail do need to get the finger out, our infrastructure has been dire of late, one set of points that should never fail is South Gosforth and they seem to have been out frequently lately as you've said, it doesn't help the performance that the adhesion is still below par and they never seem to have the grinder out during the day, not even along the central belt where I'd say it was rather bad. They seriously cannot expect to have good OTP if trains aren't able to get speed up and then when they do they have to break extra early or they'll jump the level crossing. I feel another 69% month coming on! And lots of claims as for the past 2 days I could claim my money back but hey, I'm not tight and I still used the service so they deserve the cash (or need it )

 

[ModernRailways]

I feel another 69% month coming on! And lots of claims as for the past 2 days I could claim my money back but hey, I'm not tight and I still used the service so they deserve the cash (or need it )

69% may be a little generous, but then it depends on how the rest of the month plays out. Last year, we only really had huge problems with wheelslip, this year it's been both.

As for refunds, Metro don't advertise it so I doubt they will get that many with the exception of those in the know about such things. The vast majority though won't go through the hassle. I remember a while back emailing them complaining about a delay that was around 25 minutes, and there was nothing in their reply to tell me I could claim a refund. To me, good customer service would be to let the person complaining know about the refund option and to send their tickets in. And getting a refund is a pain. I'm still waiting for mine, and Nexus are ignoring Passenger Focus - that reminds me. I should update that thread.

 

[Scott M]

That signal is often red in the peaks. Trains usually approach it slowly as it clears quite quickly.

Just out of curiosity (well...), but did the driver make a PA telling you they were passing it at danger? And if so, do you remember a rough idea of what was said?

Last night, Metro posted that the Disruption was cleared. That was a complete lie, the last train to South Hylton terminated early at Sunderland as it ran 20L. The last South Shields service terminated early at Pelaw running 25L. The second to last Shields train ran approx. 34L, with the last Sunderland service terminating early somewhere in Newcastle - possibly Monument. Trains running through to Shields were terminating at Jarrow with the next train then continuing through to Shields so a 30 minute service to South Shields - even then trains were so delayed they were following each other. I was waiting at Gateshead for around 24 minutes before the first train showed, then there were 3 within 4 minutes and they were all last trains.

Hopefully, the delays and problems will be fixed for tomorrow but if not Metro (and Nexus Rail) will have serious questions to answer.

In fact, I shouldn't really blame Metro for these delays - with the exception of the cock up at Hebburn (even then that was partially Nexus' fault though as it was the points that failed) - Nexus Rail are the ones who maintain track, points and other general infrastructure and from what I've so far seen train reliability was actually really quite good last week with the odd exception, the problem though was that we had the delays which in turn messed the system up anyway and as a result meant train reliability didn't really look too good to Joe public who want their train to be on time.

The incidents at South Gosforth are becoming too common now though, it's been 4 or 5 in the past week (including Friday 10th onwards) so it makes me think there is a bigger underlying problem up there. I would love to know what caused the points failure at Hebburn too!


Finally, Metrocar 4047 has that annoying git on with the new announcements. And I think I know why I don't like him. He is too human sounding and so because it isn't smooth it doesn't sound right. It's very jumpy, because it's all mashed together. A more robot sounding voice sounds better being mashed together because it has a better flow. His announcement for Heworth for example changed pitch so much because they've mashed the 'Next station is Heworth.' with 'Change here for local buses', and then 'This trains is for Manors.' so it's all a different pitch and tone and just generally sounds off. I don't understand why Nexus/Metro wasted money on him when the current announcements were suitable and whilst weren't local were understandable for tourists. She had a nice crisp, clear and for the most part flat tone. Their is one good thing about him though, he may help drive away the chavs because they don't want to listen to him

Ohh so that is why they go slow there - I always thought it was due to the rocks at the side of the track perhaps being too unstable to go full throttle.

And nope. Waited for about 2 mins, then heard a fumbling around in the cab (presumably the driver phoning the control), then one minute later a beep of the horn and then we crawled through the red and into Heworth.

And are they allowed to just terminate final trains at earlier stations? What happens if somebody was relying on that to go all the way to the correct terminating station?

Also agree regarding your point about the guy being too human sounding and therefore it is obvious when certain parts have been mashed together. My personal dislike about him though is that he sounds too cheerful when he says 'Doors closing'. It is literally 'Brrrrr..... DOORS CLOSING! '. That isn't a problem on the referbs though, so I don't mind him too much on those. Still prefer the woman though. Her voice is nice and soothing.

There were minor problems in South Gosforth today - we were stuck at a red at Central, and the driver announced that control had said that we were in a backlog of trains all the way to South Gosforth due to low rail adhesion, and that there were workers on the line seeing to it. South Shields trains weren't running to timetable either in the morning.

Adhesion was absolutely abysmal between South Shields and Pelaw again. We literally crawled from Bede to Simonside - driver kept trying to accelerate but the train was having none of it. The state of the tracks was shocking, worse than I have ever saw it. That crushed leaves stuff all over. Think it is safe to say we can expect metro to not be running to timetable for a while now, just like the previous two years, until the leaves have all fallen.

 

[MetroCar4058]

We are running a frequent service with trains running to all destinations but not to the usual timetable. This is due to low rail adhesion.

Bloody brilliant! So the tamper vehicle got the leaves equipment but they forgot it only works when its out on the network and not sat in the sidings all day, surely delaying some mid day services is much better than having MetroCars stuck as they literally have no traction. Why don't Nexus run this vehicle during the day? Even near the depot the adhesion isn't too good but is probably at its best in that region. Do the gel applicators even work? Very poor show by Metro once again

Regarding the man, he is going isn't he? I thought we said he was not being introduced on a full scale.

Also regarding LRAH, does NR do a good job of keeping Pelaw - Sunderland clear and do we have to work down at Park Lane to South Hylton? Seems a bit of a confusing state of affairs considering Park Lane is Metro past that point (in terms of traffic anyway) Infact who even owns Park Lane - South Hylton, Network Rail?

 

[hacman]

We are running a frequent service with trains running to all destinations but not to the usual timetable. This is due to low rail adhesion.

Bloody brilliant! So the tamper vehicle got the leaves equipment but they forgot it only works when its out on the network and not sat in the sidings all day, surely delaying some mid day services is much better than having MetroCars stuck as they literally have no traction. Why don't Nexus run this vehicle during the day? Even near the depot the adhesion isn't too good but is probably at its best in that region. Do the gel applicators even work? Very poor show by Metro once again

Regarding the man, he is going isn't he? I thought we said he was not being introduced on a full scale.

Also regarding LRAH, does NR do a good job of keeping Pelaw - Sunderland clear and do we have to work down at Park Lane to South Hylton? Seems a bit of a confusing state of affairs considering Park Lane is Metro past that point (in terms of traffic anyway) Infact who even owns Park Lane - South Hylton, Network Rail?

Park Lane to South Hylton is also owned, controlled and maintained by Network Rail. It has for this reason been built pretty much to mainline standards.

There's probably nothing to stop Northern from running services if they wanted to

Jon

 

[Scott M]

Park Lane to South Hylton is also owned, controlled and maintained by Network Rail. It has for this reason been built pretty much to mainline standards.

There's probably nothing to stop Northern from running services if they wanted to

Jon

Is mainline standards much different to Metro standards?

Also why is it that NR owns this portion - surely if metro wanted the expansion, they should have funded it?

 

[ModernRailways]

Ohh so that is why they go slow there - I always thought it was due to the rocks at the side of the track perhaps being too unstable to go full throttle.

And nope. Waited for about 2 mins, then heard a fumbling around in the cab (presumably the driver phoning the control), then one minute later a beep of the horn and then we crawled through the red and into Heworth.

And are they allowed to just terminate final trains at earlier stations? What happens if somebody was relying on that to go all the way to the correct terminating station?

Also agree regarding your point about the guy being too human sounding and therefore it is obvious when certain parts have been mashed together. My personal dislike about him though is that he sounds too cheerful when he says 'Doors closing'. It is literally 'Brrrrr..... DOORS CLOSING! '. That isn't a problem on the referbs though, so I don't mind him too much on those. Still prefer the woman though. Her voice is nice and soothing.

There were minor problems in South Gosforth today - we were stuck at a red at Central, and the driver announced that control had said that we were in a backlog of trains all the way to South Gosforth due to low rail adhesion, and that there were workers on the line seeing to it. South Shields trains weren't running to timetable either in the morning.

If they were unstable, then trains wouldn't run.

They can obviously terminate a train where they like! If it's running so late and even the second last train is running after the last train should have went then I don't really see a problem. Obviously, if they were on time and the last train didn't run Metro would have questions to answer, but then Taxis would be laid on.

Agreed about the man. They do seem to have tweaked him mind - for the better!

Regarding the man, he is going isn't he? I thought we said he was not being introduced on a full scale.

He was rumoured to be as he had been removed from the sets he was on, with the exception of the doors closing. It could be that the driver of 4047 had activated it just out of routine though as he obviously hasn't been removed from it.

I didn't go through the core so couldn't say if they have altered the likes of Central Station to be called it's proper name of, yes you guessed it, Central Station!

There were minor problems in South Gosforth today - we were stuck at a red at Central, and the driver announced that control had said that we were in a backlog of trains all the way to South Gosforth due to low rail adhesion, and that there were workers on the line seeing to it. South Shields trains weren't running to timetable either in the morning.

Adhesion was absolutely abysmal between South Shields and Pelaw again. We literally crawled from Bede to Simonside - driver kept trying to accelerate but the train was having none of it. The state of the tracks was shocking, worse than I have ever saw it. That crushed leaves stuff all over. Think it is safe to say we can expect metro to not be running to timetable for a while now, just like the previous two years, until the leaves have all fallen.

We are running a frequent service with trains running to all destinations but not to the usual timetable. This is due to low rail adhesion.

Bloody brilliant! So the tamper vehicle got the leaves equipment but they forgot it only works when its out on the network and not sat in the sidings all day, surely delaying some mid day services is much better than having MetroCars stuck as they literally have no traction. Why don't Nexus run this vehicle during the day? Even near the depot the adhesion isn't too good but is probably at its best in that region. Do the gel applicators even work? Very poor show by Metro once again

Park Lane to South Hylton is also owned, controlled and maintained by Network Rail. It has for this reason been built pretty much to mainline standards.

There's probably nothing to stop Northern from running services if they wanted to

Jon

I went down to Shields earlier just to see how serious the problem actually is down there, as it keeps sounding a lot worse. Anyhow, I went down and back and I'm surprised trains are even running. Upon leaving Tyne Dock our train crawled to Simonside because as soon as any throttle was applied the train just spun and spun and if anything slowed us down even more. Approaching stations the driver was being extremely careful, I'd have said doing maybe 10kp/h as he entered the platform. Took me 17 minutes to get from South Shields to Jarrow.

Adhesion is a complete joke, and I can't believe they invited the Evening Chronicle to go along. Funny how they are still yet to show any pictures of it mind, usually everything Metro / Nexus does has an up-to-date image with the new machinery. The new machine is clearly not doing it's job well at all, and as I've said previously I have never experienced wheel slip quite like what I have been lately. I've experienced it on the odd occasion but nothing like I have this past few weeks.

As for the Sunderland branch, that doesn't get an RHTT, but Network Rail must do something as it never really seems to affect services down there. In fact, most disruptions on the Sunderland branch are either technical faults, points failures, broken down freight train which blocks trains entering Tyne Dock and in turn disrupts all other services. And then you get the odd police incident or ambulance.

IIRC, a freight train was accidentally sent down to Park Lane. It reached Pallion before the driver realised. I believe however that was at night and so only affected a couple of services.

Also, just for the record but I'm not 100% sure that the old tamper is the new RHTT for Metro, but it would make sense as it is otherwise being left unused.

 

[MetroCar4058]

just for the record but I'm not 100% sure that the old tamper is the new RHTT for Metro,

I agree, as its always in the sidings at the depot whereas it used to be in the shed all day. I've tried to get a good look at it but I can't see if theres been any modifications when I've been going past but thats been fruitless so far :P

 

[hacman]

Is mainline standards much different to Metro standards?



Also why is it that NR owns this portion - surely if metro wanted the expansion, they should have funded it?

It was locally funded for the most part. But RailTrack did the building of it, and it stayed with them. Then Network Rail took over.

Mainline standards are only a little different - loading guage (clearance of the OHL) and signalling mostly.

Jon

 

[142094]

- For my plan it wouldn't require any extra trains or drivers as it was simply extending what is currently a Pelaw terminator down to Bede.

However, realistically there are no Pelaw terminating trains that wait in the sidings long enough that they could be extended as far as Bede. The maximum turnaround time is normally 9 minutes, often less. For your plan to work, you would need to cut a journey in the opposite direction, for example terminating the train at Regent Centre instead of going all the way to Monkseaton.

Ohh so that is why they go slow there - I always thought it was due to the rocks at the side of the track perhaps being too unstable to go full throttle.

The speed limit drops down at that point, so all trains will be slowing down. The signal protects Heworth platform 2 so will not clear until the train ahead is on its way to Felling.

And nope. Waited for about 2 mins, then heard a fumbling around in the cab (presumably the driver phoning the control), then one minute later a beep of the horn and then we crawled through the red and into Heworth.

Personally I wouldn't expect a driver to give an announcement to say they are over-riding a signal. The only time I can think of it happening is when there is a large gap between signals - the train is then limited to a certain speed which could cause a delay between some stations.

Is mainline standards much different to Metro standards?

Also why is it that NR owns this portion - surely if metro wanted the expansion, they should have funded it?

The track gauge is the same as Network Rail but the loading gauge is slightly different in certain areas, mainly the tunnels in Newcastle city centre. As a result you couldn't have Network Rail services running on parts of the Metro network.

The Sunderland line was funded by Nexus and the European Union but Railtrack did the work at the time. Network Rail now control the track infrastructure, signalling and overhead wires. Nexus still maintain the stations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Forgot to add, 4014 has been up to the Airport today as a single car, so probably on a brake test run. Passed Fawdon bang on 11.00.