FGW 5 year direct award

[Manchester77]

From the BBC:

First Great Western (FGW) is set to get a five-year extension to its contract without competition against other bidders, the BBC understands.

The railway firm has already been given two extensions since the franchising programme collapsed two years ago.

This extension enables a major rail electrification programme to be completed but it has angered the Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union.

The franchise includes services from London Paddington to South Wales.

It also passes through the Cotswolds and the West of England.

Brendon Kelly, from the RMT, said: "All the investment at current is coming from the government, nothing is coming from the private operators, they're literally just managing it and sharing out the dividends to their shareholders.

"That's money we could be spending on the railways."

Some £5bn is being invested to electrify the track between Bristol and Cardiff, which involves major work such as raising road bridges.

The BBC understands the plan is to complete the electrification project, get the trains running and then put out a new franchise for the railway open to all bidders.

Chris Irwin, from passenger lobby group Travel Watch South West, said: "One of the worries was that before the government decided to look at the possibility of the five-year franchise extension, we'd get a new franchise entrant coming in.

"That new franchise entrant would lack the inside knowledge of how this particular bit of railway works and that would be a real disaster."

A Department for Transport spokesman said: "We are committed to providing better services, more seats and more trains across the rail network in the South West as part of our long-term economic plan.

"As part of that process we are currently negotiating a directly awarded contract for First Great Western to continue running services. We have not yet decided how long that contract will be."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29489170

Nothing on the DfT site yet I imagine all will be announced on Monday.

 

[Retorus]

Good news in my opinion, I think they do a good job.

 

[richw]

Good news in my opinion, I think they do a good job.

I agree.
Their customer facing office staff could do with all being given the same information to work from though.

Trains always look well turned out, decent reliability (in my part of the network anyway)

 

[ainsworth74]

I think that it's more important that there is continuity of management whilst electrification and class 800 delivery are ongoing than anything else to be honest. FGW management at all levels have been in situ for quite a while now so are well placed to deal with the disruption this could/will cause.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It will also tie down the procurement/cascade of trains to the GW routes, other than IEPs (class 319, 16x etc).
The side effects of that will affect several other franchises, including the potential upgrade programme for Class 319s.

 

[Carlisle]

A small sorry from DaFT for messing up their west coast award maybe

 

[21C101]

The question is will the Barnstaple branch stay with FGW or pass to SWT?

 

[starrymarkb]

Probably stay with FGW- it interworks with the other Devon Metro lines - otherwise what would you do with one of the half hourly Exmouths when it reached Exeter

 

[windnoise69]

Why would the Barny branch transfer to SWT?

If anything if the rumours are true the current Waterloo - Bristol service will transfer back to FGW

 

[47802]

Maybe we will to find out if the Thameslink 387's are going to FGW as I believe have been suggested in Modern Railways.

 

[fgwrich]

Maybe we will to find out if the Thameslink 387's are going to FGW as I believe have been suggested in Modern Railways.

With a recent order for more of the things it sounds like we could well be in for Electrostars on the Thames Valley.

The question is will the Barnstaple branch stay with FGW or pass to SWT?

The main question I'm wondering though, what will happen to the Devon Metro proposals along with many of the other FGW Expansions/Service additions - including the addition of Axminster/Honiton to Okehampton (possibly more likely when other stock is introduced/released into the franchise).

 

[21C101]

Probably stay with FGW- it interworks with the other Devon Metro lines - otherwise what would you do with one of the half hourly Exmouths when it reached Exeter

Why would the Barny branch transfer to SWT?

If anything if the rumours are true the current Waterloo - Bristol service will transfer back to FGW

Once the stock becomes available upon electrification to release some 158s, the Barnstaple Branch will become class 158 circa 2016. Barnstaple services will no longer be able to serve Exmouth as a result.

That leaves a situation where you have an hourly Barnstaple - Exeter class 158 service and an hourly Waterloo - Exeter Class 158/9 service, which clogs exeter up with terminating trains. Guess what the easy solution is.......


(Source, see para 5.2 of this: http://www.tarkarail.org/aspirations.pdf)

 

[swt_passenger]

Why would the Barny branch transfer to SWT?

If anything if the rumours are true the current Waterloo - Bristol service will transfer back to FGW

What rumour is that then?

As the route is portion worked by SWT with the Exeter service, I suggest that it's far more wishful thinking than a rumour...

 

[CC 72100]

That leaves a situation where you have an hourly Barnstaple - Exeter class 158 service and an hourly Waterloo - Exeter Class 158/9 service, which clogs exeter up with terminating trains. Guess what the easy solution is.......

I think I can see where you're going with this, but let's be honest, 6 coach 159s on the Barnstaple branch all stops is never going to be very practical, is it?

To be fair, any Barnstaple - Exeter service could use the bay platform 2, keeping it away from anything else or wasting one of the through platforms. It loses a tiny bit of operational flexibility (units are on occasions left in that platform for a few hours), but I'm sure that that won't be a big deal in the long run.

 

[21C101]

Maybe we will to find out if the Thameslink 387's are going to FGW as I believe have been suggested in Modern Railways.

Thameslink don't have any 387s, they have 319s and 377s. When the class 700s come the 377s will go to Kings + Kings Lynn services and FGW will get some of the 319s for Padd outer suburban services.

 

[387star]

As long as there will be an agreement to improve the internal condition of the West fleet then I'm happy

 

[21C101]

I think I can see where you're going with this, but let's be honest, 6 coach 159s on the Barnstaple branch all stops is never going to be very practical, is it?

To be fair, any Barnstaple - Exeter service could use the bay platform 2, keeping it away from anything else or wasting one of the through platforms. It loses a tiny bit of operational flexibility (units are on occasions left in that platform for a few hours), but I'm sure that that won't be a big deal in the long run.

Why on earth would you run six car 159s to Barnstaple?

For trains not already three car west of Salisbury, you just detach three cars at Exeter Cent or St Davids and then reattach them to the next London train with three cars or two cars going onto Barnstaple, depending on the unit. Not rocket science (at least on the Southern!)

With a batch of two car 158 trains becoming available it would not be difficult to work out the timetable so that 2 car 158s went onto Barnstaple in quieter periods with three car 159s during busier periods.

With Stagecoach SWT running an hourly through service London to Barnstaple and Stagecoach also running 10/20 minute interval buses from Barnstaple Station to Bideford, Westward Ho, Appledore, Braunton and llfracombe (after deposing Firstgroup in North Devon a few years ago) the opportunity for traffic growth is large.

 

[47802]

Thameslink don't have any 387s, they have 319s and 377s. When the class 700s come the 377s will go to Kings + Kings Lynn services and FGW will get some of the 319s for Padd outer suburban services.

Wrong 387's are being built and delivered for Thameslink now, When the 700 arrive they will be cascaded elsewhere which may FGW or it may not, perhaps we will find out when this FGW announcement is made official.

I've seen comments that FGW may get the Thameslink 387's plus an additional order but that's all speculation at the moment, on the other hand they may get 319's

 

[CC 72100]

As long as there will be an agreement to improve the internal condition of the West fleet then I'm happy

That was actually one thing I was going to say - now that we have stability over a mid-term period, I think the internal condition of the 15x fleet can be properly looked at.

The refurbishments was a good one, however they've been worked very hard and as a result upkeep and maintenance probably hasn't been quite as high as it could have been. The reason for this being how stretched the west fleet is - and that doesn't change overnight unfortunately.

Also, shall we now get round to painting the 2 LM 153s?

 

[21C101]

Wrong 387's are being built and delivered for Thameslink now, When the 700 arrive they will be cascaded elsewhere which may FGW or it may not, perhaps we will find out when this FGW announcement is made official.

I've seen comments that FGW may get the Thameslink 387's plus an additional order but that's all speculation at the moment, on the other hand they may get 319's

No not wrong - I think you will find that the 387s will go to Southern with 377s being cascaded to Thameslink. They are being built for Govia Thameslink Railway. But Govia Thameslink Railway also includes Southern Railway where the units will be deployed.

They may be used on the half hourly Brighton to London Bridge services that will run during the Thameslink blockade and will be branded as Thameslink but won't go anywhere near the Thameslink route.

Apparently they are going to go to EMT trains on London to Corby services once the class 700's arrive, so sorry you are getting the 30 year old 319s. Lets hope they clean them first!

 

[387star]

That was actually one thing I was going to say - now that we have stability over a mid-term period, I think the internal condition of the 15x fleet can be properly looked at.

The refurbishments was a good one, however they've been worked very hard and as a result upkeep and maintenance probably hasn't been quite as high as it could have been. The reason for this being how stretched the west fleet is - and that doesn't change overnight unfortunately.

Also, shall we now get round to painting the 2 LM 153s?

The refurbishments were good but it was a shame to create such an ugly contrast of seating in the 158s as well as doing little to improve the toilets and air conditioning

 

[CC 72100]

Why on earth would you run six car 159s to Barnstaple?

For trains not already three car west of Salisbury, you just detach three cars at Exeter Cent or St Davids and then reattach them to the next London train with three cars or two cars going onto Barnstaple, depending on the unit. Not rocket science (at least on the Southern!)

Not rocket science at all. However, in your original post I got the impression that you did not like the idea of terminating trains at the potential ECS movements around Exeter with the splitting of Barnstaple proposal. However, detaching units is doing.... well, creating unnecessary movements.

As I said, any Exeter - Barnstaple unit can use bay platform 2. Nice and out the way. Waterloo can stay as it is - why give one branch to SWT when the rest of the Devon branches are FGW operated?

 

[swt_passenger]

Thameslink don't have any 387s, they have 319s and 377s. When the class 700s come the 377s will go to Kings + Kings Lynn services and FGW will get some of the 319s for Padd outer suburban services.

Thameslink are yet to get the 387s - they are only just being delivered for test. Modern Railways is quite correct, at least about Thameslink getting them, the temporary use of 387s to replace a batch of 319s is well known, and was covered in depth in the TSGN ITT last year. They are ordered by Southern, but definitely for use on Thameslink, rather than on Southern. This is why people were wondering in the 387 thread why they were being delivered in a 'Southern-like' livery.

 

[CC 72100]

The refurbishments were good but it was a shame to create such an ugly contrast of seating in the 158s as well as doing little to improve the toilets and air conditioning

To be fair, Arriva Trains Wales is the example of how to refurbish a 158 to a high standard.

 

[455driver]

As long as there will be an agreement to improve the internal condition of the West fleet then I'm happy

You havent seen inside 150261 lately have you!

 

[CC 72100]

You havent seen inside 150261 lately have you!

oooh has it been done? It looks nice and neat from the outside, but it's been classmate 265 that has been following me around so far.

 

[Manchester77]

No not wrong - I think you will find that the 387s will go to Southern with 377s being cascaded to Thameslink.

They are being built for Govia Thameslink Railway. But Govia Thameslink Railway also includes Southern Railway where the units will be deployed.

Apparently they are going to go to EMT trains on London to Corby services once the class 700's arrive, so sorry you are getting the 30 year old 319s. Lets hope they clean them first!

No they're not. Firstly southern merges with GTR in May 2015 so they're not the same company now. The original order of 387s is for thameslink to directly displace 29 319s. The 377/5s on Thameslink will cascade to GN post 700s.

 

[Aictos]

Good move by the DfT especially when you consider the disruption to the GWML over the next 5 years with IEP and Electrification far better to keep the existing team in place then get a new team in.

 

[21C101]

Not rocket science at all. However, in your original post I got the impression that you did not like the idea of terminating trains at the potential ECS movements around Exeter with the splitting of Barnstaple proposal. However, detaching units is doing.... well, creating unnecessary movements.

As I said, any Exeter - Barnstaple unit can use bay platform 2. Nice and out the way. Waterloo can stay as it is - why give one branch to SWT when the rest of the Devon branches are FGW operated?

To give North Devon a through service to London as wot it used to have and therefore increase passengers?

However the main issue is that terminating the Barnstaple services at Exeter St Davids would cause outrage and massive loss of passengers as most passengers want to go to Exeter [Central] not a parkway station on the edge of town with a long walk uphill to the shops. Nice and out of the way may be operationally convenient but would be a revenue disaster [as it was when western did it in the late '60s when Waterloo trains stopped and North Devon services were terminated at St Davids with a consequent collapse in passenger numbers - <conspiracy>but that might have been what they hoped for anyway</conspiracy>]

No splitting and joining would be needed at St Davids.

Yes there would be some splitting and joining but half the waterloo - exeter trains are three coach west of Salisbury anyway and the joining and splitting could be done at Exeter Central well out of the way of Exeter St Davids.

Trains would simply detatch the rear three or six coaches in the down platform at Central and proceed down the hill to St Davids and on to Barnstaple. The detached coaches would then proceed northwards and onto the up line at the existing crossover north of Central station then reverse back into the up platform to await the train from Barnstaple, join together and proceed to London.

If there was a long time and the detached bits might get in the way of Exmouth to Paignton trains then they could just proceed northwards from the down platform and reverse into Platform 3 (the now virtually disused old exmouth bay platform), stay there until the nominated time then head north over the crossover and reverse into the up platform. All very simple by Exeter Central standards!

 

[387star]

You havent seen inside 150261 lately have you!

What's been done?