London bus termini in disuse

[Romilly]

I saw far more of Farnborough,George than I wished, regardless of my love of buses. In 1968/9 worked for Bromley Council on mobile library service, and one day a week was in a trailer full of books plonked down in the centre of the triangle that comprised the terminus for the 51 on one side and the 47 on another side.On a cold winter;s day we had to unpick the lock and had to keep gloves and scarves on. Oh well, I was young and carefree.

I know someone who has been an occasional driver of this mobile library service in recent years, and who tells similar stories. The last I heard was that Bromley Council's mobile library service ceases this month.

 

[Busaholic]

I know someone who has been an occasional driver of this mobile library service in recent years, and who tells similar stories. The last I heard was that Bromley Council's mobile library service ceases this month.

I am truly sorry to hear that last piece of news. We had two mobile libraries plus the trailer five days per week, and one van on a Saturday. Bromley is the largest London borough, by area, I believe and extends from Crystal Palace to Pratts Bottom! It was formed from four and a half previous local authorities in 1965, another record, and the mobile service was a lifeline to many who lived miles from a library building e.g. Biggin Hill. Where I now live (Cornwall) five mobiles are going down to a token one in a county seventy miles wide.
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Hi,
Is Streatham 'Criffel Avenue' still in use? Driving out of Norwood in the early 80's we had a am duty which terminated there from the north returning I think to Knightsbridge Station, creating an empty 137 at the start of Kings Avenue.
Regards
Mike

Hi,
I remember seeing that destination once or twice on 137s terminating from the north. Would very much doubt that destination still in use since 137s were diverted via Atkins Road and the (replacement over that section) 50s only start from Stockwell Station.
Talking of the 137, its operation (thinly disguised) in RM days is the subject of a novel, 'The Maintenance of Headway' by the author Magnus Mills, the bus driver whose first novel 'Restraint of Beasts' was shortlisted for the Booker Prize. Magnus was driving Routemasters out of Brixton on the 137 and 159 when R.O.B. came out, but by the time M.o.H. appeared he'd gone over to Metroline at Kings Cross.The fictional bus route in the book runs from the Southern Heights (obviously Crystal Palace) to the Cross (Kings, not Charing) via the Common (Clapham), the Arch (Marble) and the Circus (Oxford) and the novel is wryly philosophical and (to me) highly enjoyable as well as offering insights into the thoughts and actions of bus drivers, inspectors and other officialdom.

 

[CatfordCat]

A few more -

Blackwall Tunnel (Delta Metal Works) ceased to be a terminus for peak hour 185s some time mid 1980s. North Greenwich Station became a terminus some years later.

New Cross, Clifton Rise and Rotherhithe New Road termini of the 202 and later P2 ceased to be termini some time ago, as did the Rotherhithe terminus of the various routes that went round the Rotherhithe peninsula (these, like the Surrey Docks routes, got extended to Canada Water)

Old Ford was the terminus of route 8, but all buses (not just garage journeys) got extended through to Bow Garage.

Limehouse has at various times been a terminus - this also is now all through routes.

The Homerton terminus of route 22 just off Lower Clapton Road was replaced with an extension through to Homerton Hospital c. 1990

There were a few terminus points at Belvedere for routes coming from the Bexleyheath direction when they were 'green' buses that ran in to the 'red bus' area. The 401 now continues to Thamesmead.

There have been a few termini in Thamesmead that have been abandoned as development has continued, e.g. Broadwaters was the terminus of the 244 which has now been extended.

Beckton Gas Works was terminus of the irregular 100 service.

Creekmouth, Remploy and Creekmouth Power Station both had occasional journeys off Barking routes including the 62.

 

[PeterC]

I had originally assumed that this referred specifically to off-road terminii.

Its a long time since I have seen a bus in the layby at the junction of Forest Road and Beacontree Avenue in Walthamstow although it is available for unscheduled curtailments on route 123. Did it get used for the Tour de France? I believe that it was originally a turning circle for the trolleybus route 625.

Another long gone terminus is the Huntsman and Hounds at Corbets Tey which I recall was a large gravelled area adjacent to the pub.

As commented previously all the pub yard terminators have ceased, the ones that I remember are the Maypole at Chigwell Row (150) and the Royal Oak at Stapleford Abbotts (175). Now the 375 jhas to run to Passingford Bridge as that is the first available turning point north of Chase Cross.

The Chase Cross terminators on 175 and 103 used to do a U turn in the middle of the cross roads while Pettits Lane short workings on the 103 would reverse into Heather Gardens.

One of the big changes in East London is the loss of the Green Man terminus with the new A12 intersection.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

it appears that the majority of replies in this thread mention termini in the east of London. May I suggest 2 in south west London?

Roehampton (Earl Spenser) disused since the 30 was shortened (initially to Putney Heath (Green Man))

Putney (Oxford Rd) disused since the 14 was extended to Putney Heath.

 

[Mike99]

Hi,
Have we mentioned Welling 'Guy Earl of Warwick'
Regards
Mike

 

[Busaholic]

Hi,
Have we mentioned Welling 'Guy Earl of Warwick'
Regards
Mike

Hi,
Yep, it's been mentioned: for me, that destination meant 'home' and 'liberation' all in one. Reason? I went to the school at the other end of the 160 bus route, St Dunstan's College, Catford, and that was always the destination except on the comparatively rare occasions when a laterunner got turned back to Eltham, Southend Crecent, but that was OK cos only one stop short of home. There was never a terminus between Welling and Eltham, so I was surprised on opo conversion, first day, SM1 appeared in Eltham High Street, destination Eltham Park, Dumbreck Gardens. I lost touch with the area shortly but was sad when the 160 got diverted to Sidcup and also when Catford Garage ceased to operate the route.

 

[Mike99]

Hi,
Thinking of West London, what about from years gone by, Park Royal 'Trading Estate' and Park Royal 'Coronation Road' also Shepherds Bush Green which officially was up that side street onthe north side of the green and into a sort of large piece of land which included an inspectors hut.
Mill Hill 'Apex Corner' is that still used on the 113?
Isleworth on the 37 now H37 road?
Regards
Mike

 

[PeterC]

Mill Hill 'Apex Corner' is that still used on the 113?

No scheduled journeys terminate there but it is the first turning point south of Edgeware for unscheduled curtailments.

 

[Busaholic]

Hi,
Thinking of West London, what about from years gone by, Park Royal 'Trading Estate' and Park Royal 'Coronation Road' also Shepherds Bush Green which officially was up that side street onthe north side of the green and into a sort of large piece of land which included an inspectors hut.
Mill Hill 'Apex Corner' is that still used on the 113?
Isleworth on the 37 now H37 road?
Regards
Mike

Shepherds Bush Green now usurped by White City Bus Station?
Isleworth - seem to remember an issue about the longer Routemasters, the RMLs, being able to turn there, but must have been resolved cos often saw it on the blinds for laterunners. Decades since i've been there so current status unknown.

Some more that come to mind:
Stepney, Arbour Square on the 40
Silvertown Station, now sadly deceased
Rochester Way, Well Hall Road on 108A, and dignified by its own bus stop without plates in a side road, which for a service not scheduled to turn there was pretty unusual! The reality though in the 1960s was that the Blackwall Tunnel 108/A routes were more liable to traffic disruption than any others in London and emergency arrangements had to be made on virtually a daily basis. The strange thing, though, was that the parallel 70 down Rochester Way and up to Eltham, Southend Crescent never turned there, even though also prone to disruption, instead sending three buses together to Eltham after a 40-60 minute gap on numerous occasions. Victoria Station at the other end of the route must consequently have had the most erratic service in central London.

 

[Be3G]

I've just thought of another terminus that might count for this thread: on a side road parallel to Enfield Lock station there's a bus stop despite the fact no buses travel down that road. (The bus stop says ‘buses on diversion only’ – the only time I've seen such a thing in London. Furthermore, I've never seen a bus diverted down there, so I'm stumped as to the stop's purpose.) However, I recall that perhaps a decade ago it was a bus stand, so buses must have terminated there at one point. The 135 is before my time, but I know that used to have some journeys terminating at the station, so I assume that must have used the stand. That's a long time ago though, and the stand I used to see ten years ago was of an up to date design, so I'm trying to think which bus would have used it since the 135. Perhaps the 517? I only recall it passing by Enfield Lock station, but maybe it had some journeys terminating there too?

 

[Busaholic]

I've just thought of another terminus that might count for this thread: on a side road parallel to Enfield Lock station there's a bus stop despite the fact no buses travel down that road. (The bus stop says ‘buses on diversion only’ – the only time I've seen such a thing in London. Furthermore, I've never seen a bus diverted down there, so I'm stumped as to the stop's purpose.) However, I recall that perhaps a decade ago it was a bus stand, so buses must have terminated there at one point. The 135 is before my time, but I know that used to have some journeys terminating at the station, so I assume that must have used the stand. That's a long time ago though, and the stand I used to see ten years ago was of an up to date design, so I'm trying to think which bus would have used it since the 135. Perhaps the 517? I only recall it passing by Enfield Lock station, but maybe it had some journeys terminating there too?

This is just off the top of my head, and I don't think I've ever been to Enfield Lock so absolutely nil local knowledge, but I remember a 135 and a 135A bus routes, the latter terminating,if memory serves, at Enfield Lock, Royal Small Arms Factory. Could the diversion have been during some sort of firing at the RSA?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Noak Hill (Pentowan) used to be visited by rare 174s, but not for quite some time now - no buses up there at all. RMs would reverse into a farmyard!

Lambourne End - another rural terminus, once served by the 150 - gone, too.

And further out, Ongar (Crispey Avenue), latterly the terminus of the 247B, and of members of the 175 group before that, has gone, too.

The old Dagenham Dock terminus of the 139 (and occasionally the 145 and 148, and later the 174 and Ensignbus 347) is no more - and indeed not directly reachable since the level crossing there went.

Nearby, the Dagenham Fords Foundry terminus of the 174 has gone, too, along with the foundry. Not sure if "Becontree (Chittys Lane)" has any buses scheduled to terminate at it.

The old terminus in York Road for buses terminating at Ilford Station has also long gone. Also, I think Romford (Parkside Hotel) and Hornchurch (Hacton Lane) no longer serve as termini...

In short, supermarkets and hospitals seem to have supplanted pubs as route destinations - a bit of social history there...

 

[Busaholic]

In same neck of woods, Abridge, Blue Boar on the old 10 trunk route. You could board a bus there and not get off to Victoria Station! (on certain days of the week and time of day)

 

[stait.john]

Enfield Lock Station used to be a turn on the 121. Not sure if it still is.

John

 

[Mike99]

Hi,
This has been a great thread for nostalgic memoriesof years gone by
Regards
Mike

 

[PeterC]

I don't know why Pentowan slipped my memory. Looking at old maps it seems that there was a cafe there before the war. I think the short lived extension of the 103 to Stapleford Abbotts turned by looping through a section of road left when Stapleford Road was straightened rather than the Royal Oak.

Both terminii of the 250 have gone, Hornchurch Garage demolished and IIRC there is no longer a bus stand at Grove Lane in Epping. Staying with garages Romford (RE) used to provide off road standing for the 370.

Digging out one of Mike Harris's excellent historic bus maps for 1964, in the same area, the then 165 and 252 terminii have moved north due to new housing development. The map also shows buses running to the Fowler Road Industrial Estate.

Romford Market had a stand by the church used by a variety of irregular Eastern National services which would terminate in Church Lane on market days.

 

[smtglasgow]

My first visit to London was in 1991, aged 9 and my first sight of a London bus was a green/yellow VRT of Eastern National sitting at the now disused Arkley Hotel terminus of the 307. About the millennium I was staying with friends in Stroud Green and there was a disused bus stop in their street – Mount Pleasant Crescent – which I think might have dated from the days of the old 236 (according to Ian Armstrong’s site). When I think of North London today, I can think of more new termini (Highgate Wood, Highgate Village, Enfield Island) than disused ones – anybody know any differently?

 

[Busaholic]

My first visit to London was in 1991, aged 9 and my first sight of a London bus was a green/yellow VRT of Eastern National sitting at the now disused Arkley Hotel terminus of the 307. About the millennium I was staying with friends in Stroud Green and there was a disused bus stop in their street – Mount Pleasant Crescent – which I think might have dated from the days of the old 236 (according to Ian Armstrong’s site). When I think of North London today, I can think of more new termini (Highgate Wood, Highgate Village, Enfield Island) than disused ones – anybody know any differently?

Alexandra Park, Victoria, was the terminus (except in M-F peaks) of the W2, and before that the 144,etc.

 

[Antman]

Shepherds Bush Green now usurped by White City Bus Station?
Isleworth - seem to remember an issue about the longer Routemasters, the RMLs, being able to turn there, but must have been resolved cos often saw it on the blinds for laterunners. Decades since i've been there so current status unknown.

Some more that come to mind:
Stepney, Arbour Square on the 40
Silvertown Station, now sadly deceased
Rochester Way, Well Hall Road on 108A, and dignified by its own bus stop without plates in a side road, which for a service not scheduled to turn there was pretty unusual! The reality though in the 1960s was that the Blackwall Tunnel 108/A routes were more liable to traffic disruption than any others in London and emergency arrangements had to be made on virtually a daily basis. The strange thing, though, was that the parallel 70 down Rochester Way and up to Eltham, Southend Crescent never turned there, even though also prone to disruption, instead sending three buses together to Eltham after a 40-60 minute gap on numerous occasions. Victoria Station at the other end of the route must consequently have had the most erratic service in central London.

Stepney Arbour Square is still used occasionally to turn a late running 15

 

[Be3G]

This is just off the top of my head, and I don't think I've ever been to Enfield Lock so absolutely nil local knowledge, but I remember a 135 and a 135A bus routes, the latter terminating,if memory serves, at Enfield Lock, Royal Small Arms Factory. Could the diversion have been during some sort of firing at the RSA?

Well, the RSA hasn't existed for many years yet the bus stop with the diversion sign is much more modern so that wouldn't seem to be the reasoning.

Enfield Lock Station used to be a turn on the 121. Not sure if it still is.

Yes and no! A rare 121 will have its blinds set to Enfield Lock Station, but the place it will turn round is actually a roundabout a couple of stops beyond the station. Confusingly, it therefore has no connection with the former bus stand I talked about previously.

 

[Busaholic]

A couple more:-
DOWNHAM, Shroffold Road on the Downham Estate on the 124 was in regular weekday use until opo conversion saw 'shorts' extended to Grove Park.The 124 must be one of the least mucked-about-with routes in London in the sense of following the same roads and always being allocated to Catford Garage, solely. Yes, the Falconwood/Welling/Woolwich extensions came and went but it is still recognisably the same route I occasionally had to use to go to school when the 160s were up the wall.

Hayes Station (Kent, postally) had a M-F peak hour service to Bromley North on the 119, intermingled with the 'throughs'. I seem to remember a 'lazy' blind in the 1960s on RTs, but not often used because the next trip would be through to Croydon or Thornton Heath.

Speaking of Hayes, the other Hayes Station (Middlesex) was a very active terminus at one time with as many as twothirds of 105s stopping there rather than London Airport Central (sic) and the RML 207a offering a through service to South Kensington Station!

 

[Mike99]

And: Chigwell Row, Maypole Inn on the 139A pre1958

 

[Antman]

A couple more:-
DOWNHAM, Shroffold Road on the Downham Estate on the 124 was in regular weekday use until opo conversion saw 'shorts' extended to Grove Park.The 124 must be one of the least mucked-about-with routes in London in the sense of following the same roads and always being allocated to Catford Garage, solely. Yes, the Falconwood/Welling/Woolwich extensions came and went but it is still recognisably the same route I occasionally had to use to go to school when the 160s were up the wall.

Hayes Station (Kent, postally) had a M-F peak hour service to Bromley North on the 119, intermingled with the 'throughs'. I seem to remember a 'lazy' blind in the 1960s on RTs, but not often used because the next trip would be through to Croydon or Thornton Heath.

Speaking of Hayes, the other Hayes Station (Middlesex) was a very active terminus at one time with as many as two thirds of 105s stopping there rather than London Airport Central (sic) and the RML 207a offering a through service to South Kensington Station!

The 124 has been rerouted through North Downham estate and through Middle Park but otherwise it is still the same, I can remember as a child RT's and RM's but sadly it's stuck with small Darts these days

On the subject of Hayes Station (Kent) I can remember the 51 having certain journies extended there, I think they were for the benefit of visitors to Farnborough Hospital, now Princess Royal.

 

[Mike99]

The 124 has been rerouted through North Downham estate and through Middle Park but otherwise it is still the same, I can remember as a child RT's and RM's but sadly it's stuck with small Darts these days

On the subject of Hayes Station (Kent) I can remember the 51 having certain journies extended there, I think they were for the benefit of visitors to Farnborough Hospital, now Princess Royal.

You are quite correct, There were also a couple of journies on the 51 into Bromley Garage for the same reason on Sundays as well.

 

[Busaholic]

You are quite correct, There were also a couple of journies on the 51 into Bromley Garage for the same reason on Sundays as well.

It was presented to the public as being to enable hospital visits but I remember hearing the real reason was that when the cafe at Farnborough, George, started to close on Sundays the crews were up in arms so selected journeys were extended and no duty had more than one extension. For the same reason, during the day on Sunday, the 47 which were all through journeys to Shoreditch from Farnborough had enough 'slack' in the timetable for a bus, on arrival at the George, to go out of service, turn round, whizz up the road to Bromley Garage and its canteen and then the same in reverse. Probably accounts for 47s hammering along like the clappers on Sundays down Masons Hill and up Bromley High Street, overtaking all other routes sedately keeping to time, in order to make theirs up.

The Hayes Station journeys were later quietly dropped, probably to nobody's inconvenience bar the odd enthusiast!

Incidentally, in many years of visiting Bromley regularly, then living and working there and in Beckenham, I never saw a 138 cut back from Coney Hall to Hayes Station, the only intermediate destination ever being Bromley, Westmoreland Road for journeys from Coney Hall going into Bromley Garage.

 

[Mike99]

Hi,
Quite right with all of that, have we mentioned Woolwich 'Free Ferry' on the 75 road yet?
Regards
Mike
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Hi,
Have we thought about, Plumstead 'Woodlands Estate' standing in Flaxton Road on the 192 road
Regards
Mike

 

[Hophead]

Petts Wood Station used to be the terminus of route 94. I think that half the service went on to Orpington (but possibly not on Sundays). The buses used to swing round in front of the station steps - an RT could do it, an RM just about.

The 94 was replaced by the present 261 and, these days all the service continues to Orpington. There's still a stop, though with, in the StreetView image of May 2012, a plate for the 261. I doubt that this is used in anything other than the direst emergency, though, as parked cars and the tightness of the turn would force a 3-point turn which TfL don't seem to be keen on.

 

[CatfordCat]

Petts Wood Station used to be the terminus of route 94. I think that half the service went on to Orpington (but possibly not on Sundays). The buses used to swing round in front of the station steps - an RT could do it, an RM just about.

Yes, about half the weekday service on the 94 extended through to Orpington. It was 1990 before the Sunday service on the 208 extended to Orpington.

The scheme in September 1982 was a bit complicated -

It involved the withdrawal of the 94 (which didn't pass the door at either Catford or Bromley garages), the 47 was withdrawn south of Bromley Garage - during the week, the Farnborough end of the 47 ran mainly as a local service (operated by Bromley garage) Lewisham (Surrey Docks on Saturdays) - Farnborough, or Surrey Docks - Farnborough on Saturdays; and the 229 was withdrawn between Green Street Green and Farnborough and converted to OPO at the same time (I think the Farnborough 'George' terminus wasn't suitable for OPO buses - from memory, you boarded in the middle of the road, which was easier with open platform buses).

The 208 took over the Orpington - Bromley section of the 94, then ran via the 47 route to Lewisham (and on Saturday daytimes on to Surrey Docks)

The 261 took over the Lewisham - Bromley section of the 94, then continued to Farnborough via the 47, then to Orpington via the 229. (The 261 also continued the 94's Saturday extension to Brockley Rise.)

The 208 was initially operated by Catford and the 261 by Bromley - both routes passed the door at the garage, cutting out unproductive travelling time in crew duties.

The 208 and 261 are currently both operated by Bromley - the 261 having lost the Orpington end as part of the 'Roundabout' network scheme - it's now part of the 358.

Broadly, it's TfL policy now that scheduled short workings/ part routes / routes running in sections doesn't happen (there are a few exceptions), but a number of locations are authorised for unscheduled 'curtailments'. I'm not sure if the 208 still has such a point at Petts Wood. (Petts Wood Station was unusual in that the 94 and 161A both terminated there, showed the same ultimate destination, but terminated on opposite sides of the railway.)

Thinking of this, there were a few routes - certainly in to the 1980s - where buses never or rarely ran from one end of the route to the other, being run wholly in sections. I think I'm right in saying that when the 12 ran from Croydon to Park Royal, there were no through journeys end to end. And I can remember trying to get to central London from Forest Hill on a Saturday around 1980, and didn't quite grasp (I was quite young at the time) that you needed to catch a 12 and change to a 12 somewhere north of Dulwich...

And at one point the Saturday service on the 141 ran in two sections that didn't touch (Wood Green - Moorgate and Farringdon Street / Elephant - Grove Park.)

 

[Busaholic]

Petts Wood Station used to be the terminus of route 94. I think that half the service went on to Orpington (but possibly not on Sundays). The buses used to swing round in front of the station steps - an RT could do it, an RM just about.

The 94 was replaced by the present 261 and, these days all the service continues to Orpington. There's still a stop, though with, in the StreetView image of May 2012, a plate for the 261. I doubt that this is used in anything other than the direst emergency, though, as parked cars and the tightness of the turn would force a 3-point turn which TfL don't seem to be keen on.

It was the 208 rather than the 261 which replaced the Petts Wood and Orpington section of the 94, with initial RM operation and continuing with the Petts Wood Station stand, and the 208 continues to ply the roads with opo but all scheduled journeys through to Orpington. I'd be amazed if the Petts Wood terminus was still used, although that area has far fewer buses to Bromley now compared to the days of the 94, in peaks and Sat shopping hours at least. The 208 was of interest in being TfL's last route to be run for most of the day in two overlapping sections and also because at times it was still allocated from two garages.
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Apologies to Catford Cat, was writing my post before yours went on, only just seen it!