Best Route for Train Racing

[wheelnrail]

...But first allow me to explain myself. As noted this is my first post and I'm merely a short term visitor to your great country, so go easy please

I moved here from the US to work side by side at one of your RAF's finest bases. In the year I've been here, i've gone around and took in the new world of British railroading, and so far gone on 3 separate railtours, all via the ECML. Considering the vast differences in the type of motive power used and seen, I'm liking it here! I've never seen so much mainline steam before!

Anyway, to my point. I'm going on another tour next month, this time WCML and I'm very interested in knowing whether or not this route is more susceptible to these train races like i've experienced on the ECML. I also would like to know which route is best for steam tours to pace other units for future reference. For example the trillion track main line from Waterloo/Victoria/S. London is one, are there others? I ask because the opportunity for races are nonexistent in the US, and the inner child in me comes out, waving at the passengers and driver on the other train, you know

 

[heart-of-wessex]

The London Underground has a great section, taking a fast Metropolitan Line service going north of Finchley Road, and slowly overtaking a stopping Jubilee service is fun

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You can get some races up from Woking towards Surbiton, with the xx:26 & xx:56 departures (Fast Portsmouth's) which can race an Up Alton or if a tad late Up Basingstoke (as far as Byfleet & NH), on the down you can do with a xx:45 & xx:15 if you pace them and that's with the Down Basingstoke's away from Surbiton or if the Down Alton is a tad late with the xx:00 & xx:30 (Fast Portsmouth's).

Quite fun at times, but you have to remember as a driver to keep an eye on what you're doing and not one of your mates taking the pee.

 

[Trainfan344]

Coming out of London Liverpool Street can race, sometimes a Norwich bound express departs at the same time as an Metro service and they race for a little while

 

[tsr]

Depending on train calling patterns, it can happen on the Up Fast & Up Slow lines between Purley Oaks and South Croydon during the morning peak. Sadly, you won't usually get railtours/charters at those times heading Northbound, though!

 

[Strathclyder]

I know that this isn't what you're looking for (area or line-wise), but the approaches to Glasgow Central can sometimes provide slow races between Scotrail 314s on Cathcart Circle duties and Intercity 390s on the run to London, for example.

 

[Failed Unit]

There are a few examples in the Edinburgh area between Edinburgh Waverley and where the lines diverge in the South Gyle area. Examples are at 45 mins past the hour when a fife train leaves at the same time as a Glasgow. I am sure as well the Dundee sometime leave at the same time as the Glasgow's on the hour. This includes a "pit stop" at Haymarket to see which one can pick-up and clear the platform, if that is what you mean.

 

[Abpj17]

While there are regular short delays making it all a bit unpredictable but can increase/decrease the number of races, there are 30 or so mile races between some of the St Pancras - Bedford lines particularly in the morning/evening peaks.

Midland Mainline trains invariably win. The slow - all stations - lose but end up at Luton. Some odd calling patterns on the mostly-fast to St Albans often leads to racing - particularly around the handful that don't stop at Luton airport.

For example, there are trains from St Albans to Luton with a calling pattern of:
St A: 18:20 + 18:20, Harp: 18:26 + 18:26, Airport: no call + 18:32; Luton: 18:32 + 18:34

And in the morning peak from Luton to St A:
07:30 + 07:30; 07:32 + no call; 07:38 + 07:38; 07:44 + 07:44

If your pour over the personalised timetables on National Rail Enquiries (showing all calling points for St P to Bedford) you’ll find more http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/pockettimetable/search

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There's the Piccadilly and I think it's the District on the London Underground

 

[RJ]

At 20 minutes past the hour on Monday to Saturday daytimes, three services depart Waterloo, first stop Clapham Junction - a Woking service, a Reading service and an Exeter service. Alton the Woking service is the only one to serve an intermediate station, it often reaches Clapham Junction before the Reading service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

An interesting one on the WCML is the 1657 Euston-Glasgow and 1707 Euston-Liverpool just north of Lichfield, one of very few examples I can think of where a VT service is overtaken (in this case the latter overtakes the former) - you normally have a good few seconds of running exactly parallel to from my experience.

 

[Michael.Y]

Anywhere where there's a Relief line, so Newport west to Cardiff can be good, especially around the top of the hour when the inbound Holyheads, Maestegs and Taunton/Portsmouth Harbours all arrive at once. There's also Didcot - Reading, where you can overtake both local Turbos and XC Voyagers.

 

[315804]

Piccadilly line from Acton Town to Hammersmith can be fun, and in the opposite direction, sometimes the District Line and Piccadilly trains leave together and try see who's first up the incline towards Ravenscourt Park... It really is on-the-edge-of-your-seat 25 mph stuff :roll: ditto Barons Court to Hammersmith

If you want real racing, the A14 in an Audi RS4 can be fun, but watch those Truvelo cameras...:roll:

 

[185143]

Catch the xx:17 Chester from Manchester Piccadilly and get overtaken by the xx:20 Cleethorpes service!

 

[alwaystouchout]

London Underground's Piccadilly (fast) and District (stopping) lines between Hammersmith and Acton Town

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Talking of races, I remember back in 2003/2004 possibly when me and Techniquest were on a CT Class 170 heading south out of Crewe, and left just after a Euston West Coast 87 hauled set left. We stormed out the station and passed it, and the drivers face was a picture! He looked at our train in disgust that we were overtaking.

About 5 minutes later, said 87 caught up and the driver was grinning! It was hilarious!

 

[notadriver]

I would say the 170s main advantage is that it's short so would clear the point work far quicker than a loco hauled train.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The disadvantage of a 170 is their lack of reliability.

 

[notadriver]

Yes I was referring to that particular scenario out of Crewe.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The London Underground has a great section, taking a fast Metropolitan Line service going north of Finchley Road, and slowly overtaking a stopping Jubilee service is fun

The Chiltern line out Marylebone runs parallel from Finchley to Moor Park* too and their trains which are going down the mainline via Wembley Stadium will do both of the tubes for speed somewhere between Dollis Hill and Neasden.


*could be one of several places depending on where you want to define the boundary either in real terms of public perception or on a map. I feel I have to say this to stave off know it all comments from the more pedantic members of this forum!

 

[Mojo]

London Underground's Piccadilly (fast) and District (stopping) lines between Hammersmith and Acton Town

Piccadilly line from Acton Town to Hammersmith can be fun, and in the opposite direction, sometimes the District Line and Piccadilly trains leave together and try see who's first up the incline towards Ravenscourt Park... It really is on-the-edge-of-your-seat 25 mph stuff :roll: ditto Barons Court to Hammersmith

There's the Piccadilly and I think it's the District on the London Underground

Has anyone mentioned the District and Piccadilly lines in the Barons Court/Hammersmith/Acton areas?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I don't think so...

 

[21C101]

While there are regular short delays making it all a bit unpredictable but can increase/decrease the number of races, there are 30 or so mile races between some of the St Pancras - Bedford lines particularly in the morning/evening peaks.

Prior to the recast of the timetable during the St Pancras blockade in 2005. Thameslink peak services used to run either all stations from St Albans northwards or Luton Airport Parkway northwards.

If the service calling at all stns from St Albans northwards was running a little late then both would roll into Luton Airport Parkway at the same time and run in parallel all the way to Bedford.

I'm not sure if they ran parallel into separate platforms in Bedford after the fast line train crossed over at Bedford south junction as I got off before then, but I think it is logistically possible.

What would have been possible if you were by the footbridge was getting off one to the other at Luton airport, then back at Luton, then back at Leagrave, then back at Harlington and then back at Flitwick.

To be honest it must have been a bit distracting for the drivers.

 

[Bevan Price]

Talking of races, I remember back in 2003/2004 possibly when me and Techniquest were on a CT Class 170 heading south out of Crewe, and left just after a Euston West Coast 87 hauled set left. We stormed out the station and passed it, and the drivers face was a picture! He looked at our train in disgust that we were overtaking.

About 5 minutes later, said 87 caught up and the driver was grinning! It was hilarious!

The snag here, and elsewhere. is that the slow lines often have a lower speed limit than the fast lines. So, even with the newish 100 mph limit on the slow lines south of Crewe, the driver of the 170 (or nowadays a 350) would have to reduce power once he/she reached the line limit. And yes, for the first couple of miles, a class 350 could even beat a 390.

 

[TEW]

You can get some races up from Woking towards Surbiton, with the xx:26 & xx:56 departures (Fast Portsmouth's) which can race an Up Alton or if a tad late Up Basingstoke (as far as Byfleet & NH), on the down you can do with a xx:45 & xx:15 if you pace them and that's with the Down Basingstoke's away from Surbiton or if the Down Alton is a tad late with the xx:00 & xx:30 (Fast Portsmouth's).

Quite fun at times, but you have to remember as a driver to keep an eye on what you're doing and not one of your mates taking the pee.

It's actually slightly better than that heading from Woking towards Surbiton. The xx56 up Portsmouth is actually xx59 off Woking, the same time as the up Basingstoke. It's quite common for the two to leave at the same time and stay fairly parallel right the way up to the Byfleet area.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

The snag here, and elsewhere. is that the slow lines often have a lower speed limit than the fast lines. So, even with the newish 100 mph limit on the slow lines south of Crewe, the driver of the 170 (or nowadays a 350) would have to reduce power once he/she reached the line limit. And yes, for the first couple of miles, a class 350 could even beat a 390.

Yes obviously restricted, the main thing though was the 87's drivers face looking out is window at our train, never seen a reaction like that before lol

 

[notadriver]

Travelling on 319 heading north alongside the M1. We easily overtake an airport express coach doing a maximum of 62 mph but as we overtake a pick up truck it speeds up and keeps pace with us at 85 mph !

 

[O L Leigh]

The disadvantage of a 170 is their lack of reliability.

They're flaky but they're no less reliable than any other class of train I've driven. In fact I've only twice had to stop out-of-course to carry out fault-finding in just over two years. Once was simply to enable me to restart an engine that had not automatically restarted due to low engine oil before tackling Bromsgrove Bank and the other time was due to a loss of coolant.

As for races, I always have a little race with the EC services from Peterborough as far as Helpston. Admittedly you can't always set off at exactly the same time, but provided you start rolling at precisely the same time it can be a close contest. Cl170s have much better initial acceleration but are hampered by the linespeed on the Down Stamford being just 75mph compared to 125mph on the Down Fast. Only 5mph more would tip the contest far more certainly in the favour of the DMUs.

O L Leigh

 

[martinsh]

The snag here, and elsewhere. is that the slow lines often have a lower speed limit than the fast lines. So, even with the newish 100 mph limit on the slow lines south of Crewe, the driver of the 170 (or nowadays a 350) would have to reduce power once he/she reached the line limit. And yes, for the first couple of miles, a class 350 could even beat a 390.

This happens regularly. There is a 350 Crewe - Stafford at xx19, and a Pendolino Crewe - Stafford at xx25. The xx19 is often 2-3 mins late and starts out of Crewe just as the Pendo is pulling in. It's usually a toss-up as to which will get to Stafford first.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

South from MK - when a 350 can leave a 390 standing .....till around Bletchley....