Greenpeace Protesters Occupy Coal Train

[meridian2]

Green issues have more backing in the last 10 years than any other time in history, Greenpeace and their stunts have undoubtedly helped this cause.

You call them terrorists, i think that's just you using the language of the gutter press, you might as well call everyone who who protests a terrorist, please remember this was an entirely peaceful protest before calling them terrorists.

Do we all have 'mug' written on our faces; name me one incident in the past where Greenpeace's activities have made a difference?
They're not terrorists, they're protesters and they had a choice to make it an 'entirely peaceful' protest but that is severely undermined when they decided to actively stop a train and cause its driver unnecessary stress.

 

[Intercity]

They're probably the most famous campaign group on earth and the fact that green issues are taken a lot more seriously than before they were set up suggests they have had success.

 

[Yew]

They're probably the most famous campaign group on earth and the fact that green issues are taken a lot more seriously than before they were set up suggests they have had success.

Correlation does not imply causation

 

[ainsworth74]

All 40 who were on the train, along with the lieutenants who orchestrated the incident and pre-prepared the press statements etc should all be whizzed off to the clink. No ifs or buts. In fact, those involved in the planning and "hands off support" should bear the brunt of the law's wrath.

Steady. I think they should face time but only if the CPS can make a case which would lead to jail time and that case is then put in front of a jury. Let's not be throwing people in jail without following due process

Certainly I don't think taking a similar approach to the French of sinking a Greenpeace ship and killing a few activists in the process is the right way to go.

They're probably the most famous campaign group on earth and the fact that green issues are taken a lot more seriously than before they were set up suggests they have had success.

But don't forget the old saying that correlation does not imply causation.

You know what makes me laugh is the fact that so many enthusiasts are ticked off because how dare they stop mah trainz. Example, no enthusiasts seemed to care when they scaled The Shard about the BP (?) fiasco but because it involved a train they lose their nut. I bet if they stopped a lorry people wouldn't care.

But then climbing The Shard is a) not related to railway matters and this is, at it's heart, a railway forum and b) didn't close down a railway line and block access to a power station by rail. Climbing The Shard is more spectacular but stopping a train had a bigger impact. I think the response on hear is perfectly justified even if it makes you laugh...

 

[Intercity]

Correlation does not imply causation

If anyone genuinely believes that Greenpeace and other green activists haven't affected worldwide government policy then they're way wide of the mark.
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Steady. I think they should face time but only if the CPS can make a case which would lead to jail time and that case is then put in front of a jury. Let's not be throwing people in jail without following due process

Certainly I don't think taking a similar approach to the French of sinking a Greenpeace ship and killing a few activists in the process is the right way to go.



But don't forget the old saying that correlation does not imply causation.



But then climbing The Shard is a) not related to railway matters and this is, at it's heart, a railway forum and b) didn't close down a railway line and block access to a power station by rail. Climbing The Shard is more spectacular but stopping a train had a bigger impact. I think the response on hear is perfectly justified even if it makes you laugh...

The response on here has been to wish death upon them and compare them to genocidal maniacs,

Not justified in my opinion.

 

[ainsworth74]

The response on here has been to wish death upon them and compare them to genocidal maniacs,

Not justified in my opinion.

Agreed. I might not like them but they're not even remotely comparable to the likes of ISIS.

 

[starrymarkb]

Electricity is something that does need debating. Especially if Electric cars start to gain further traction (I am seeing more about at the moment) there will be a increase in overnight use.

While I am pro renewable, I do think they should be looking at one or two Nuclear sites for base load

 

[ainsworth74]

While I am pro renewable, I do think they should be looking at one or two Nuclear sites for base load

Agreed. Renewable is great and we should be expanding our use of it as much as possible but we also need something that is utterly reliable to meet the base load of the system. Some renewable can meet base load certainly but I'd be happier if we had building spree of nuclear power plants and then topped up with renewable.

Also isn't it the case that more people have died from cancers caused by coal fired power stations than have died of cancers caused by nuclear power plants (and that includes Chernobyl)?

 

[HSTEd]

And I don't want any renewable at all and want to follow the French model of pumping out as many nuclear plants as possible as fast as possible.

And keep building them at the same rate continuously - until production reaches equilibrium after 60 years as the first plants retire or until we reach per capita electricity consumption levels similar to those in Norway.

There is no reason that electricity in the UK cannot be the same price as the states.

And the most sensible figures for Chernobyl fatalities are around the 400 mark.
Although the only cancer observed to spike after the accident was thyroid cancer which is incredibly survivable.

 

[Emyr]

There is no reason that electricity in the UK cannot be the same price as the states.

Lack of political will.

 

[HSTEd]

Lack of political will.

Also obsession with use of private capital for things private capital is terribly suited for. (NPPs that will pump out power for sixty years don't do well with 10% capital discount rates).

 

[starrymarkb]

Don't the French have the biggest corporate debt in the world from building all their Nuclear plants?

I think a mix of sources is the best way to go.

 

[GearJammer]

The simply point is this......

The railways are private property, you do not trespass..... you certainly don't go trespassing on the railway and stop a train..... for any reason, unless some ones life was in danger (which in this case it wasn't).

If Greenpeace wanted to make a protest they could have camped outside the gate of the power station and protested there, they didn't, they decided to break the rules, and for that they should be punished, and harshly, to demonstrate to others that that kind of behavoir won't be tolerated.

 

[ExRes]

And I don't want any renewable at all and want to follow the French model of pumping out as many nuclear plants as possible as fast as possible.

And keep building them at the same rate continuously - until production reaches equilibrium after 60 years as the first plants retire or until we reach per capita electricity consumption levels similar to those in Norway.

There is no reason that electricity in the UK cannot be the same price as the states.

And the most sensible figures for Chernobyl fatalities are around the 400 mark.
Although the only cancer observed to spike after the accident was thyroid cancer which is incredibly survivable.

Assuming you are being serious, what do you intend that we do, or more to the point, our descendants do, with the toxic byproduct of these nuclear plants

As for the UK price being the same as the States, how can a tiny country like ours produce electricity by any method as economically as an enormous country like America

 

[HSTEd]

Don't the French have the biggest corporate debt in the world from building all their Nuclear plants?

It would take an awful lot of nuclear reactors to get France to beat the mess that is Japan - it still has collosal debt overhangs from the lost decade.

I think a mix of sources is the best way to go.

Perhaps it woudl be if the sources were of comparable expense and had significant security-of-supply risks.
Renewables and nuclear do not meet this requirement.
Especially considering the cost of nuclear fuel is so low that it would be rather cheap to simply park a few years of uranium requirement in drums on an old airbase as insurance against supply disruptions.

Wind turbines and other renewables have serious other costs beyond the headline 'levelised' electricity price.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Assuming you are being serious, what do you intend that we do, or more to the point, our descendants do, with the toxic byproduct of these nuclear plants

Guard it in concrete flasks for 300 years, using money set aside in the fund by a very small charge on the produced electricity. On order of 0.1p/kWh.
After those 300 years the fuel would be reprocessed to recover the uranium for re-enrichment and reuse, the plutonium would be diverted to the future fleet of fast reactors or to a MOX plant and the fission products would be vitrified and buried.
At that point the fission product waste would have comparable activities to today's 'low level' waste. Which in most cases is uniforms and paperwork from the nuclear power plant.

And yes, you could pay for all that using that very small charge on the electricity produced.

As for the UK price being the same as the States, how can a tiny country like ours produce electricity by any method as economically as an enormous country like America

Using state capital to drastically reduce the cost of nuclear power plants (and before you say it - the cost of all the nuclear power plants we could ever want is not noticeable compared to today's deficit so it will have no effect on the public finances worth mentioning) and then build as many as possible to the same, or very similar, designs.

 

[muz379]

Certainly I don't think taking a similar approach to the French of sinking a Greenpeace ship and killing a few activists in the process is the right way to go.

Personally I disagree

In all seriousness though , with this and previous Greenpeace activities they broke the law and should be held to account for that . I'm sure they would have been the first to complain had the driver of that train broke the law and crashed his train into a few of them . Or when the police "unlawfully" arrest them .

I do agree that there are serious environmental questions that do need answering , and government and big corporations do need holding to account more for the damage that is being done to the environment . But breaking the law in any way IMO is not an acceptable way to demonstrate against this and that is why I think Greenpeace are at best a bunch of clowns .

As for powering the nation , nuclear seems to me to be the best way to do it, , even if it means we have to bury the waste products or pay another nation to deal with them for us . France with all of its reactors must have a decent infrastructure of waste processing sites .

 

[Deerfold]

Personally I disagree

In all seriousness though , with this and previous Greenpeace activities they broke the law and should be held to account for that . I'm sure they would have been the first to complain had the driver of that train broke the law and crashed his train into a few of them . Or when the police "unlawfully" arrest them .

I do agree that there are serious environmental questions that do need answering , and government and big corporations do need holding to account more for the damage that is being done to the environment . But breaking the law in any way IMO is not an acceptable way to demonstrate against this and that is why I think Greenpeace are at best a bunch of clowns .

As for powering the nation , nuclear seems to me to be the best way to do it, , even if it means we have to bury the waste products or pay another nation to deal with them for us . France with all of its reactors must have a decent infrastructure of waste processing sites .

So how do you think Greenpeace should get their message across?

Do you know anyone getting anywhere with your suggested method/s?

 

[muz379]

So how do you think Greenpeace should get their message across?

Do you know anyone getting anywhere with your suggested method/s?

Whilst I dont agree with their anti nuclear agenda ive never seen anything in person or in the press that has given me cause to have problems with friends of the earth in this country and recently they have been involved in a few places where applications for fracking have been rejected . I would consider that a success

All of the green organizations that lobby parliament and the EU have obviously been quite successful in getting regulations put in place to do with power consumption of household appliances and other green measures so those involved in lobbying are also making progress without breaking the law .

I am aware that Greenpeace are an organization also involved in lobbying , and if they kept it just to lobbying I wouldn't have an issue with them . It is regrettable they see the need to break the law .And it is for that reaosn I would not support the organisation

Lets look at it the other way . Say I completely disagreed with the Greenpeace agenda which in a democratic society I am entitled to . Would you defend me the same if I decided to go out and set fire to a local Greenpeace office , or disrupt their activities in some illegal way ?

 

[43021HST]

One issue I do have is the abuse the rail enthusiast community showered the Greenpeace page with, which doesn't reflect well on the enthusiast community. I actually challenged a few of their comments and it just showed me most of them had commented through sheer kneejerk reactionism.

 

[meridian2]

Sounds exactly the incident described in a nutshell to me.

Bunch of people, who don't really care about environmental issues, jump on the Greenpeace bandwagon just to get into the news.

 

[Temple Meads]

One issue I do have is the abuse the rail enthusiast community showered the Greenpeace page with, which doesn't reflect well on the enthusiast community. I actually challenged a few of their comments and it just showed me most of them had commented through sheer kneejerk reactionism.

Indeed. If they had put their points across in a more refined manner then it would have been okay, but most of it was foul mouthed, and frankly just made them look like idiots.

I do share views with Greenpeace on numerous issues, but as I also happen to be a supporter of the rail industry I find this 'protest' pathetic and poorly judged.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If Greenpeace dislike coal so much, why did they find the need so pressing to fill bags of the stuff. They don't normally unload whales from the whaling ships they chase.

 

[GarethJohn]

I hadn't heard about it if it wasn't posted here so their actions have certainly brought it too my attention even if I couldn't give a damn.

 

[43021HST]

Indeed. If they had put their points across in a more refined manner then it would have been okay, but most of it was foul mouthed, and frankly just made them look like idiots.

I do share views with Greenpeace on numerous issues, but as I also happen to be a supporter of the rail industry I find this 'protest' pathetic and poorly judged.

Well its not hard to make the rail enthusiast community look like idiots as anyone who works for the railway can vouch.

To be honest as protests go, it ticked all the boxes: It used shock tactics to make a point, cost two vast and bloated corporations lots of money and very quickly got into the media. Was a very effective tactic.

 

[Geezertronic]

Well its not hard to make the rail enthusiast community look like idiots as anyone who works for the railway can vouch.

To be honest as protests go, it ticked all the boxes: It used shock tactics to make a point, cost two vast and bloated corporations lots of money and very quickly got into the media. Was a very effective tactic.

Still made the Greenpeace mob look like idiots. Your emotive language around "two vast and bloated corporations" suggests a lot about your opinion as well

Like others I have no time at all for Greenpeace or their protestors because of their actions which, to be emotive too, are self centred, selfish and bullish. I suggest that their "we're right and everyone else is wrong" attitude makes them more enemies than friends

 

[dakta]

If Greenpeace dislike coal so much, why did they find the need so pressing to fill bags of the stuff.

Energy prices finally outstrip donations?

Reporter: Nice protest you got going there!

Activist: Protest? oh...right yeah well..erm yeah... protest

 

[ainsworth74]

To be honest as protests go, it ticked all the boxes: It used shock tactics to make a point, cost two vast and bloated corporations lots of money and very quickly got into the media. Was a very effective tactic.

DB will have been compensated by Network Rail most probably and what, exactly, will it have cost EDF? It's not like the power station was shut down...

 

[HSTEd]

EDF would have just dug a tiny amount into the giant mountain of coal they keep lying around to cover supply and price disruptions.

The only group that lost money as a result of this mess was the state itself - which means you did.

 

[NSEFAN]

Still made the Greenpeace mob look like idiots. Your emotive language around "two vast and bloated corporations" suggests a lot about your opinion as well

Like others I have no time at all for Greenpeace or their protestors because of their actions which, to be emotive too, are self centred, selfish and bullish. I suggest that their "we're right and everyone else is wrong" attitude makes them more enemies than friends

Rule 19 of the internet: The more you hate it, the stronger it gets.

Greenpeace don't care if they look like idiots, the point of their actions is to get as much attention as possible. This gets people thinking and talking about the issues which they are trying to raise awareness of. We all know on this forum how stupid it is to trespass on the railway, but given the amount of media coverage which this incident has received, Greenpeace probably considers the protest to be a great success.

 

[ainsworth74]

The only group that lost money as a result of this mess was the state itself - which means you did.

Quite. Hardly the joyous success as suggested by Klambert...