System One Yearly Railcard Letter

[Kanye West]

Do you arrive more awesome from Wilmslow than from Gatley?

Step off the train feeling like a million bucks from Wilmslow
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry but it still makes no sense. If you live near Atricham then why do you have to drive anywhere - no buses to take you to the station? And whilst one journey may be quicker its only 30 mins from your closest station.

Whilst Im sure everything you say is above board but it just sounds far to fantastical to me to be anything other than its the first time you have been caught using your ticket outside the boundary. I know that doesnt help you but this is how Northern are going to see it.

We can sit here and discuss different routes all day, but just accept that's what happened haha! Buses cost money too and there aren't any at good times.

Ok thanks, well let's just hope they understand and agree with me that Wilmslow being classed as Manc is a simple mistake to make.

 

[bb21]

We can sit here and discuss different routes all day, but just accept that's what happened haha! Buses cost money too and there aren't any at good times.

Ok thanks, well let's just hope they understand and agree with me that Wilmslow being classed as Manc is a simple mistake to make.

It is not important whether he accepts your version of the events or not. He is just playing devil's advocate. You story will be scrutinised by Northern so these are all questions they can ask and if it raises question marks in someone's mind, it may well do so in the caseworker's mind at Northern.

Don't take it the wrong way. I don't think he enjoys picking holes in your story. He is only trying to help.

 

[Clip]

Indeed I am. If I can ask them with no real knowledge of the area and service patterns then those within Northern will be thinking the same if not more as to how convoluted your journey is.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Setting aside the vagaries of local government boundaries if I was spending £1,000+ on a ticket I think I'd want to check out its validity from the outset.

I wish there was a "like" button for logical postings such as this one.

 

[Deerfold]

Buses cost money too

If the ticket you've got is the "Countycard", currently £1075 for a year, that's valid on buses too.

http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/county-card-annual

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the ticket you've got is the "Countycard", currently £1075 for a year, that's valid on buses too.

http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/county-card-annual

With regards to the stated home destination of Altrincham and the railway station of Gatley, there is a very regular service 11 bus service available to use.

 

[Tibbs]

/snip

Of course another cynical thought would be that why after nearly a years worth of use suddenly the OP would now try going from a different station to see if it saved time.

/snip

I spent 6 months exiting Euston by the main entrance and walking to work, before I thought about seeing if it was quicker to go out by the exit near platform 18. Turned out it was.

Habits are hard to break.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you've admitted that you bought a single on the way out to Wilmslow, then you've probably not helped yourself. This is the one bit of the whole story that I genuinely don't understand: if you genuinely thought that your ticket was valid to Wilmslow, why did you buy another ticket?

Getting confused about the boundaries of a ticket is easy enough to do, I've done it (thankfully with a validated Oyster with sufficient PAYG credit on it). But the fact you previously bought a ticket to Wilmslow undermines your argument that you were confused about the boundary. You wouldn't buy a ticket if you thought your season ticket was valid.

 

[snail]

I spent 6 months exiting Euston by the main entrance and walking to work, before I thought about seeing if it was quicker to go out by the exit near platform 18. Turned out it was.

Habits are hard to break.

Yes, but the exits aren't in different counties!

 

[Emyr]

There's no parking facilities at the Altrincham station. There is at Hale, but I'd rather not pay any extra money when I'm working at a very low income internship over my summer holidays trying to save up for the university term time.

Here's an idea.


Sell the car. Stop paying for insurance, fuel, all the other costs...


Get a bike.


Ride it to Hale or Gatley. Either one is no more than 3 miles, wherever you live between them, and should take you less than 15 minutes.

 

[snail]

This story gets stranger by the post. Why drive to Wilmslow and pay £5 to park when there are other stations with no car park charges?

 

[Merseysider]

This story gets stranger by the post. Why drive to Wilmslow and pay £5 to park when there are other stations with no car park charges?

The OP has already stated he was offered free parking in the Wilmslow area by an acquaintance.

 

[Kanye West]

With regards to the stated home destination of Altrincham and the railway station of Gatley, there is a very regular service 11 bus service available to use.

the 11 doesn't go near me. The 286 does and the only times would be 07:40 and get to altrincham at 08:00 meaning I have 0 minutes to get on the platform and catch the train. Risky and longer. Going to gatley/wilms would be an all round shorter journey to be honest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the ticket you've got is the "Countycard", currently £1075 for a year, that's valid on buses too.

http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/county-card-annual

yeah that's true, i didn't think about that when writing the post above. I've explained buses in my latest post
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you've admitted that you bought a single on the way out to Wilmslow, then you've probably not helped yourself. This is the one bit of the whole story that I genuinely don't understand: if you genuinely thought that your ticket was valid to Wilmslow, why did you buy another ticket?

Fair point. The way I worded it in the letter was that it was a trial journey and I bought the ticket just as a fallback if my countycard didn't work when showing it to the warden on the train. I showed my countycard and it was approved.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just another question regarding the whole debt recovery process:

Will my response from northern rail be a bunch of questions of why this and why that or will it be a straight up verdict of how they'll proceed with the matter?

 

[bb21]

Just another question regarding the whole debt recovery process:

Will my response from northern rail be a bunch of questions of why this and why that or will it be a straight up verdict of how they'll proceed with the matter?

They usually make a decision upon receiving your reply, but the possibility of further investigation cannot be ruled out.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Fair point. The way I worded it in the letter was that it was a trial journey and I bought the ticket just as a fallback if my countycard didn't work when showing it to the warden on the train. I showed my countycard and it was approved.

Why would it "not work" if you genuinely thought Wilmslow was in the Countycard area?

Northern will usually make a decision when they receive your reply.

 

[Kanye West]

Why would it "not work" if you genuinely thought Wilmslow was in the Countycard area?

Northern will usually make a decision when they receive your reply.

Exactly. So it's an honest mistake to make

 

[Tetchytyke]

Exactly. So it's an honest mistake to make

...except the fact that you previously bought a ticket "just in case" implies that it wasn't "a mistake", it was you trying it on thinking you wouldn't get caught.

That's how I'd read it if I worked for Northern, anyway.

 

[dysonsphere]

well I live in Stoke on Trent and I would have assumed Wilmsow was in the greater Mac area ( and I used to work for a firm in Wilmsow)

 

[Kanye West]

...except the fact that you previously bought a ticket "just in case" implies that it wasn't "a mistake", it was you trying it on thinking you wouldn't get caught.

That's how I'd read it if I worked for Northern, anyway.

i bought it just in case. I dont know, hopefully they dont look that far into it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

i bought it just in case. I dont know, hopefully they dont look that far into it.

"Look that far into it"? It lept out at me from a first reading as an implausible anomaly!

I thought I was being asked to believe that the passenger chose to buy a ticket for a journey while they simultaneously understood that their railcard covered the very same journey. This is why I haven't responded to the thread (until now).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well I live in Stoke on Trent and I would have assumed Wilmslow was in the greater Manc area ( and I used to work for a firm in Wilmslow)

I can accept what you say, living as you do in Stoke-on-Trent.

What I cannot accept is that someone resident in the Altrincham area which has been in the borough of Trafford since the establishment of that area, which is one of the ten authorities that make up Greater Manchester, has a lack of knowledge of an area not too far removed from where he lives, such as that of Wilmslow being in Cheshire East. From what the OP stated, he attends University, so is not a child where such a mistake would be excusable.

 

[dysonsphere]

I can accept what you say, living as you do in Stoke-on-Trent.

What I cannot accept is that someone resident in the Altrincham area which has been in the borough of Trafford since the establishment of that area, which is one of the ten authorities that make up Greater Manchester, has a lack of knowledge of an area not too far removed from where he lives, such as that of Wilmslow being in Cheshire East. From what the OP stated, he attends University, so is not a child where such a mistake would be excusable.

Im inclined to agree with you used to live in London and the fare zones are ground into everyones memory.

 

[6Gman]

I can accept what you say, living as you do in Stoke-on-Trent.

What I cannot accept is that someone resident in the Altrincham area which has been in the borough of Trafford since the establishment of that area, which is one of the ten authorities that make up Greater Manchester, has a lack of knowledge of an area not too far removed from where he lives, such as that of Wilmslow being in Cheshire East. From what the OP stated, he attends University, so is not a child where such a mistake would be excusable.

In the past I have bought a number of rover/ ranger type tickets - in Sussex, Merseyside, Devon, North Wales. In each case they were for a week and cost a few pounds. In every case, in purchasing the tickets, I took the trouble to check the area they covered. It would seem that in spending over £1,000 on a ticket for 12 months the OP didn't check the validity of the ticket.

If I were investigating this case I might find that suspicious.

Surely all the OP can say to Northern is that he genuinely thought Wilmslow was covered, he now realises the error, apologises, offers an out-of-court payment, and makes no mention of the 'just in case' ticket in one direction only!

 

[Class377]

I can accept what you say, living as you do in Stoke-on-Trent.

What I cannot accept is that someone resident in the Altrincham area which has been in the borough of Trafford since the establishment of that area, which is one of the ten authorities that make up Greater Manchester, has a lack of knowledge of an area not too far removed from where he lives, such as that of Wilmslow being in Cheshire East. From what the OP stated, he attends University, so is not a child where such a mistake would be excusable.

Not everybody is retired and has enough time to stare at maps to learn boundaries. As dysonsphere mentioned, I assume you expect EVERY Londoner to know exactly which zone every London station is in?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not everybody is retired and has enough time to stare at maps to learn boundaries. As dysonsphere mentioned, I assume you expect EVERY Londoner to know exactly which zone every London station is in?

You are drawing a far too wide a picture of knowledge in what you say above. Perhaps you are not aware that Altrincham and Wilmslow are in adjoining areas and I made reference to that fact in my posting. I did not say that anyone in Altrincham had to be aware of a great swathe of the geography of that part of the area of the size of the London zone area.

To suggest, as you do above, that retirement is an asset to be able to understand the border area ticket availability of the described long-period availability ticket at a cost running into four figures is rather below you and indeed could be so construed as to be an insult to the intelligence of anyone below retirement age when understanding the availability area of such a ticket.

 

[Emyr]

Surely all the OP can say to Northern is that he genuinely thought Wilmslow was covered, he now realises the error, apologises, offers an out-of-court payment, and makes no mention of the 'just in case' ticket in one direction only!

Depends what went down in the RPI's notebook.

 

[neilmc]

You are drawing a far too wide a picture of knowledge in what you say above. Perhaps you are not aware that Altrincham and Wilmslow are in adjoining areas and I made reference to that fact in my posting. I did not say that anyone in Altrincham had to be aware of a great swathe of the geography of that part of the area of the size of the London zone area.

To suggest, as you do above, that retirement is an asset to be able to understand the border area ticket availability of the described long-period availability ticket at a cost running into four figures is rather below you and indeed could be so construed as to be an insult to the intelligence of anyone below retirement age when understanding the availability area of such a ticket.

Now that I'm retired I can look at maps and play with fare engines all day long; when I was working, especially with a family, I didn't have that kind of luxury. I would consider it perfectly reasonable to assume that Wilmslow is in Greater Manchester since many of the denizens of Altrincham and the surrounding area try to convince the world that they actually live in Cheshire when they don't!

 

[cuccir]

I'm not sure the above few posts are really getting us anywhere useful. We don't need a long discussion about what it is reasonable for people to know about transport/governmental boundaries.

What we have established is that the OP's behaviour is sufficiently unusual, and possibly poorly-reasoned, to raise suspicions of deliberate attempts to evade a fare, whether or not he has done this. This is something he himself has also acknowledged in the posts. As such we can determine that Northern may be more likely to consider prosecution than in other cases, although that is only a 'more likely' - they may still take the £80 route and be done with it. Until anything other developments from Northern or the OP emerge, all else really is bluster...

 

[DelayRepay]

I'm not sure the above few posts are really getting us anywhere useful. We don't need a long discussion about what it is reasonable for people to know about transport/governmental boundaries.

I agree - but I hope we can agree that it is reasonable for someone who holds a season ticket to either know where it's valid, or make an effort to find out before using it. I think it's even more reasonable for someone to find out, if they were so unsure that on the previous journey they bought another ticket just in case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Step off the train feeling like a million bucks from Wilmslow
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


We can sit here and discuss different routes all day, but just accept that's what happened haha! Buses cost money too and there aren't any at good times.

I thought the Countycard allowed bus travel?

 

[Deerfold]

I thought the Countycard allowed bus travel?

We've had that discussion.

If the ticket you've got is the "Countycard", currently £1075 for a year, that's valid on buses too.

http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/county-card-annual

yeah that's true, i didn't think about that when writing the post above.