Virgin Trains' New £8m Campaign

[al.currie93]

At risk of shaking the beehive here...

8 million pounds for an advertising campaign... East Coasts's was 7 million... so going by that and doing a rough calculation, an advertising campaign costs each TOC about 7.5 million pounds. There are 6 intercity operators (Virgin, East Coast, First Great Western, Abellio Greater Anglia, Cross Country and East Midlands Trains), so the total cost of them to all do an advertising campaign would be 45 million pounds.

So if Intercity (ie. one nationalised operator) was still around and they did an advertising campaign for the same amount of the railway and train services that each of the above TOCs cover and operate, it would cost a total of 7.5 million pounds... a saving of 37.5 million pounds.

That's the equivalent of the cost of 12 class 68 locomotives, or one fifteenth of the total amount of money that East Coast returned to the government in three years, that would be saved on advertising campaigns alone, and could be spent other parts of the railway... Just saying...

 

[WatcherZero]

Would only work that way in national adverts, regional adverts, station advertising, newspaper/magazine advertising, billboards, radio, etc... would all still cost the full amount.

For example using inflation calculator in just 1984 BR spent £500k on Jimmy Saville Age of Train advert wages alone, nevermind the actual filming and broadcasting costs along with other media, thats £1.5m in todays money. That campaign ran for 7 years.

 

[dannypye9999]

Before he thinks about pricing more people onto his trains he must think about providing MORE trains & more services. Does this mean already over-crowded trains are soon going to be even more overcrowded?

 

[bb21]

Where are those trains and where are the paths, especially out of Euston?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Before he thinks about pricing more people onto his trains he must think about providing MORE trains & more services. Does this mean already over-crowded trains are soon going to be even more overcrowded?

I travel on Virgin a lot (including commuting to Euston) and I've only ever been on two crowded trains:

1. 9:10 Euston-Holyhead on a bank holiday saturday
2. 20:15 Manchester-Euston sunday after a Man U home match

I believe Virgin has a pretty low load factor, even in the peak

 

[Geezertronic]

Before he thinks about pricing more people onto his trains he must think about providing MORE trains & more services. Does this mean already over-crowded trains are soon going to be even more overcrowded?

I presume by "he" you mean Richard Branson? I don't believe that he has any operating say-so in the running of Virgin Trains.

VT did want to lengthen all the 390s to 11 cars and wasn't it the DfT that vetoed that? There's not a lot that any TOC can do if they cannot get more stock or lengthen their existing stock. It's also been well mentioned that running the 221s under the wires is not ideal but you have to do the best with the stock you have. Loco-hauled stock is not a solution on the WCML either due to the performance difference. Ordering "baby Pendos" or similar would help but who would pay for it? If I was VT I wouldn't given the fact they are only guaranteed the franchise for the next few years

 

[TheIRO]

Great to read all of your responses!

Have you all seen the new video that kick-started the campaign? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nak8cpFJsY

The ending is quite funny!

 

[martinsh]

I believe Virgin has a pretty low load factor, even in the peak

Especially in the peak !!

 

[Clip]

At risk of shaking the beehive here...

8 million pounds for an advertising campaign... East Coasts's was 7 million... so going by that and doing a rough calculation, an advertising campaign costs each TOC about 7.5 million pounds. There are 6 intercity operators (Virgin, East Coast, First Great Western, Abellio Greater Anglia, Cross Country and East Midlands Trains), so the total cost of them to all do an advertising campaign would be 45 million pounds.

So if Intercity (ie. one nationalised operator) was still around and they did an advertising campaign for the same amount of the railway and train services that each of the above TOCs cover and operate, it would cost a total of 7.5 million pounds... a saving of 37.5 million pounds.

That's the equivalent of the cost of 12 class 68 locomotives, or one fifteenth of the total amount of money that East Coast returned to the government in three years, that would be saved on advertising campaigns alone, and could be spent other parts of the railway... Just saying...

This is silly. Very silly in fact.

Everyone has an advertising budget, and that costs money. If they didnt advertise their low advance fares(and discounts even further from buying from them) then people wouldnt know andthey wouldnt travel so would have more trains rolling around the country empty. Intercity operators have to advertsie nationwide and TV stuff costs a lot more than in print media and is probably also more effective too.

So you want more trains but with no one knowing about them then they would be emoty and what a waste of bloody money that would be. Just saying...

 

[Geezertronic]

Especially in the peak !!

I must travel on different peak trains to the rest of you... The BHM ones are always loaded well especially the 18:43

 

[gordonthemoron]

18:43 is full but not standing, ditto 16:43 & 19:10

 

[Geezertronic]

18:43 is full but not standing, ditto 16:43 & 19:10

Last time I had the misfortune to travel on this service it was a 9 car and I was sitting in the vestibule with a few others (until Milton Keynes Central when, as usual, it seems like half the train alights)

 

[gordonthemoron]

more like 90%

 

[All Line Rover]

I must travel on different peak trains to the rest of you... The BHM ones are always loaded well especially the 18:43

The 18:43 is busy because it stops at Milton Keynes. The EBW services tend to be the busiest but the 18:43 is not a representative example.

On the Manchester to London route, peak services can be very quiet, especially just before / just after off-peak hours. The last time I travelled on the 09:29 from Crewe to Euston (only because the 09:56 off-peak service had been cancelled), I could have counted the number of people in Coach F on one hand. That included those who would otherwise have boarded the 09:56. The other Standard Class coaches, although slightly busier, were still quiet and had many empty tables. All this, and yet Virgin changed the 09:29 from off-peak to peak just a few years ago!

 

[maniacmartin]

'Arrive Awesome' doesn't even make sense. I'd prefer to 'Arrive On time' anyhow.

 

[Clip]

'Arrive Awesome' doesn't even make sense. I'd prefer to 'Arrive On time' anyhow.

Aye but thats going to cost them a fortune in vouchers every day

 

[Geezertronic]

I'd wager most of the delays are not the fault of the TOC anyway

 

[dannypye9999]

I presume by "he" you mean Richard Branson? I don't believe that he has any operating say-so in the running of Virgin Trains.

Yes, that's right hes the one with the famous beard. Well he may not have any real say-so in the running of Virgin trains but people cant help thinking whenever Virgin gets mentioned in media they instantly think of the bearded one who sits at the top.

 

[bb21]

People may, but that doesn't make their arguments valid or correct.

 

[Minilad]

And that just shows how much "brand awareness" people have when it comes to the Virgin brand. They naturally assume the bearded one runs it. Although to be fair VT happily wheel Branson out when they need a bit of publicity

 

[al.currie93]

This is silly. Very silly in fact.

Everyone has an advertising budget, and that costs money. If they didnt advertise their low advance fares(and discounts even further from buying from them) then people wouldnt know andthey wouldnt travel so would have more trains rolling around the country empty. Intercity operators have to advertsie nationwide and TV stuff costs a lot more than in print media and is probably also more effective too.

So you want more trains but with no one knowing about them then they would be emoty and what a waste of bloody money that would be. Just saying...

My point was that by having 6 operators there are 6 advertising campaigns. Whereas one operator for the whole intercity railway would only need one advertising campaign, hence saving a lot of money overall which could be spent elsewhere. I never once in my previous post advocated or suggested abolishing advertising campaigns to save money :roll:

 

[MCR247]

My point was that by having 6 operators there are 6 advertising campaigns. Whereas one operator for the whole intercity railway would only need one advertising campaign, hence saving a lot of money overall which could be spent elsewhere. I never once in my previous post advocated or suggested abolishing advertising campaigns to save money :roll:

Whilst I understand economies of scale, your post makes a hell of a lot of assumptions. Whilst I agree with your that there would be some saving, the idea of the saving being in the region of 37.5 million is ridiculous

 

[WatcherZero]

Generally as a business you would allocate a proportion of resources to advertising, it might fluctuate from year to year with product launches and other one offs but generally it rises as the company grows in proportion to their revenue.

 

[Geezertronic]

Yes, that's right hes the one with the famous beard. Well he may not have any real say-so in the running of Virgin trains but people cant help thinking whenever Virgin gets mentioned in media they instantly think of the bearded one who sits at the top.

But does he sit at the top? I'm not so sure. Virgin Trains itself is 51% owned by Virgin Group (49% owned by Stagecoach)

RB is in the Virgin Media adverts but that company only uses the Virgin brand name and RB is the recognised face of that brand name which is most likely why he is included in Virgin Trains publicity as well

 

[jon0844]

And that just shows how much "brand awareness" people have when it comes to the Virgin brand. They naturally assume the bearded one runs it. Although to be fair VT happily wheel Branson out when they need a bit of publicity

SRB will help promote any company using the Virgin brand, even if he has little to no involvement. I guess he's the 'benefit' of using the Virgin name.

And I have no idea if he provides a certain number of appearances or comments in press releases for free, or whether there's a cost.

Without him, the brand is considerably weaker. He's probably even more important to Virgin than Steve Jobs was to Apple.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Great to read all of your responses!
Have you all seen the new video that kick-started the campaign? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nak8cpFJsY
The ending is quite funny!

Clever video. I like the pigeons managing to walk at normal pace while the humans seem to be walking through treacle...
You're supposed to identify with the people, not the trains.
It complements Virgin's other corporate ads - but it doesn't have Usain Bolt in it (or SRB).
Good to see an impressive Liverpool Lime Street too.

 

[al.currie93]

Whilst I understand economies of scale, your post makes a hell of a lot of assumptions. Whilst I agree with your that there would be some saving, the idea of the saving being in the region of 37.5 million is ridiculous

I did make a number of assumptions yes (probably should have put that in ) but I reckon you'd be surprised as to how much would be saved. As said, there would need to be a lot less advertising and these are expensive.

 

[MCR247]

Would there need to be a lot less advertising? What do you mean by this? You save the money spent on designing individual adverts, yes I'll give you that. But what about billboards, newspaper ads etc? Assuming you don't want your intercity brand just advertised around the WCML that price won't change significantly.

 

[thenorthern]

They have a North Vs South Twitter thing at the moment or something along those lines to celebrate their new branding.

 

[al.currie93]

Would there need to be a lot less advertising? What do you mean by this? You save the money spent on designing individual adverts, yes I'll give you that. But what about billboards, newspaper ads etc? Assuming you don't want your intercity brand just advertised around the WCML that price won't change significantly.

I mean that there would only be one advertising campaign at a time as opposed to 6 (assuming all 6 current intercity railway operators carry out a campaign). That's only one TV advert to be nationally broadcasted, one design of poster, one 'design' of newpaper ad and so on. The region within which the posters and newspaper ads would need to be distributed would be greater, yes, but that is the only thing which would make the campaign more expensive than the current Virgin campaign for say. Assuming that (feel free to correct me if you know it to be otherwise) TV averts and the design process would cost the most, the cost whole thing would be significantly reduced as opposed to currently.