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Scotland votes no to Independence

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Xenophon PCDGS

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Maybe this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the statements being made to say the decision of the referendum mean that it will never be able to be changed again in the future does not seem to ring true, as the decision taken in 1707 has indeed been challenged by this referendum in 2014, hence setting a precedent for such a future challenge.
 
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radamfi

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Maybe this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the statements being made to say the decision of the referendum mean that it will never be able to be changed again in the future does not seem to ring true, as the decision taken in 1707 has indeed been challenged by this referendum in 2014, hence setting a precedent for such a future challenge.

Also, what about German re-unification?
 

Oswyntail

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Maybe this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the statements being made to say the decision of the referendum mean that it will never be able to be changed again in the future does not seem to ring true, as the decision taken in 1707 has indeed been challenged by this referendum in 2014, hence setting a precedent for such a future challenge.
Yup - anything can be changed and challenged, otherwise we would have some very odd institutions.
And you can bet your bottom dollar that if there is a "No" vote, Salmond will be up on the hustings saying "we will continue the fight for our rights to freedom".:roll:
 

cf111

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Yup - anything can be changed and challenged, otherwise we would have some very odd institutions.
And you can bet your bottom dollar that if there is a "No" vote, Salmond will be up on the hustings saying "we will continue the fight for our rights to freedom".:roll:

Mere words cannot express just how much I am looking forward to his concession speech. I think I might just tape it and have it on a loop for a week or so.
 

GatwickDepress

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Yup - anything can be changed and challenged, otherwise we would have some very odd institutions.
And you can bet your bottom dollar that if there is a "No" vote, Salmond will be up on the hustings saying "we will continue the fight for our rights to freedom".:roll:
Hoepfully he'll be in full Braveheart war paint for that authentic look! :D
 

chris89

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It depends on your status. Tourist centres are of course there to welcome visitors and make money. But if you happen to be the only English kid in a school in one of the isolated areas, it can be very vicious. A friend of mine had a miserable life at school in the 80s and 90s and was bullied/isolated for being English.

I have heard the same from some people i've spoken to / known for being few of the English students. Also for Aviemore i can't judge as haven't been up there for at least 7 odd years now.

As said it does happen. Although not to the extent a lot seem to believe (Can't judge Schools, as only been to them in Somerset/ Midlands)

If i get comments, its more of interest where i am from, Especially if i say West Midlands, as i still have a part West Country accent (Or it comes out sometimes) Also could just be that my Girlfriend is Scottish and quite well accepted by her family/ extended family. (Which sometimes they, don't understand what i say, due to this random accent)
 

TUC

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I think the schools which have any English pupils are going to have trouble on Friday especially if as looks likely it's a No vote.

Another exaggeration from the South of England. I think the only schools that will have those problems are ones with lots of pupils who will attack another for any random reason. It would say more about the school and its pupils than it would remotely about independence.
 

Butts

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Maybe this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the statements being made to say the decision of the referendum mean that it will never be able to be changed again in the future does not seem to ring true, as the decision taken in 1707 has indeed been challenged by this referendum in 2014, hence setting a precedent for such a future challenge.

The 1707 "Anchluss" is hardly comprable with the upcoming vote which is being conducted in a Democratic manner.

Mind you "The English Gold" in the form of Devo-Max seems to be the modern substitute for overt coercion of a "Post Darian" virtually Bankrupt State. :p
 

ExRes

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I sincerely hope that the voters are putting more thought into the future of Scotland and the UK in general, especially the economy of all parts of the UK, than whether some childish people are calling each other stupid names, if they're more interested in the school playground then the whole lot of us are in the khazi, especially those living north of the border who will be sharing the Salmond khazi
 

Clip

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Some English people also seem to fail to differentiate between Scots expressing frustration at what they sometimes see as dominant English culture and attitudes, and how Scots behave towards individual English people, which is with the same degree of welcoming and courtesy as they would for anyone.

I can understand that. One of the things that has got me puzzled with a lot of the Yes voters I know is the line

'We didnt vote for them so they dont represent us'

This is true, in a sense, but if they are SNP supporters who gain independance and then end up with a Labour Govt then what is the difference? They still will have people in power who they didnt vote for?


Also I reckon its win win for Salmond now on Thursday. Even if its a no vote they will get Devo Max and more money and more say over what they tax and spend due to the concessions being spouted by the 3 main parties. Its what he has always wanted from the start anyway I reckon as he knew he wouldnt get full independence.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The 1707 "Anchluss" is hardly comparable with the upcoming vote which is being conducted in a Democratic manner.

Mind you "The English Gold" in the form of Devo-Max seems to be the modern substitute for overt coercion of a "Post Darian" virtually Bankrupt State. :p

It is not the principle of the vote to which I alluded to in my posting, but the fallacious comment that the decision would never see a future challenge, as it was on that particular matter that I made the comment of there being a precedent already set that I did in my posting.
 

St Rollox

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Really strange thread populated by posters who seem vague about Scottish politics.
The only Scottish politician they seem to have heard of is Alex Salmond.
The two other names, Brown and Darling, seem to have been missed altogether.
Then again the English public hounded them out the Westminster door.
Believe they may have been high ranking UK politicians.

Pity UK PLC is totally relying on them to save the last dying embers of what used to be an Empire.

Oh well, nothing last for ever.
Even the sun sets eventually.
 
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DelayRepay

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Really strange thread populated by posters who seem vague about Scottish politics.
The only Scottish politician they seem to have heard of is Alex Salmond.
The two other names, Brown and Darling, seem to have been missed altogether.
Then again the English public hounded them out the Westminster door.
Believe they may have been high ranking UK politicians.

It's a point that seems to have been missed - the SNP claim that Scotland never gets the government it votes for or a government that will act in Scotland's interests. But between 1997 - 2010 we had a Labour government and for the life of that government we had a Scottish Chancellor. Between 2007 - 2010 we had a Scottish PM.
 

Oswyntail

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...
'We didnt vote for them so they dont represent us'...
Yes, this is a fatuous statement. In an election, we are not really meant to be voting for a government, but a representative, our MP. That MP is meant to represent the views of his constituents. OK, the party system prevents much of this. But why should anyone expect that, just because they vote for a party, they should be governed by that party which will universally do what they want.

Also I reckon its win win for Salmond now on Thursday. Even if its a no vote they will get Devo Max and more money .....
It is refreshing to see Plaid Cymru point out this week that the Barnett formula has already been favouring Scotland over the rest of the UK, including England, for years. If this is oppression, can we have some, please!
 

DarloRich

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Also I reckon its win win for Salmond now on Thursday. Even if its a no vote they will get Devo Max and more money and more say over what they tax and spend due to the concessions being spouted by the 3 main parties. Its what he has always wanted from the start anyway I reckon as he knew he wouldnt get full independence.

But not for Salmond personally - he will surely be finished if he fails as he has staked all of his personal political capital and credibility (and perhaps that of his party) on winning.
 

Butts

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It's a point that seems to have been missed - the SNP claim that Scotland never gets the government it votes for or a government that will act in Scotland's interests. But between 1997 - 2010 we had a Labour government and for the life of that government we had a Scottish Chancellor. Between 2007 - 2010 we had a Scottish PM.

You had a Scottish Prime Minister from 1997-2010 ...:roll:

Unless Tony Blair ...Born Edinburgh 1953 does not count !!!
 
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ExRes

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But not for Salmond personally - he will surely be finished if he fails as he has staked all of his personal political capital and credibility (and perhaps that of his party) on winning.

I would imagine that both Salmond and his party will be finished fairly soon regardless of a yes or no

He could of course barricade himself in the Scottish Parliament Building while declaring himself Dictator, more likely is that his party will be swept aside by the Scottish Labour party who will then become the only party of any power for many years to come, an independent Scotland will be then so free that it will only be answerable to Labour, the EU and OPEC, such freedom does independence bring .....
 

DownSouth

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But not for Salmond personally - he will surely be finished if he fails as he has staked all of his personal political capital and credibility (and perhaps that of his party) on winning.
If the UK government is even half-competent they will already have well-prepared plans to take him into custody immediately upon news of the referendum proposal being rejected at the ballot box.

For his own protection, of course.
 

Johnuk123

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Does anybody outside of Scotland really care if they do disappear, the Scottish people should they vote yes will have to manage if it does go pear-shaped, it may just go very well.
 

AM9

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Does anybody outside of Scotland really care if they do disappear, the Scottish people should they vote yes will have to manage if it does go pear-shaped, it may just go very well.

Not at the moment I don't but come the General Election next year, each party will have it's own menu of concessions to Scotland in the negotiations, so that will be the UK voters' opportunity to put their spoke in. So the following things may still be up for grabs:

oil revenue split
currency union
corporation tax split
defence procurement
university fees
national health split
national debt
the BBC
and or course National Rail

There are many other things of course, - all ready to be traded for English and Welsh votes.
 

Oswyntail

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... come the General Election next year....
Could be quite interesting. If there is a "Yes", while, of course, Scots would still be a part of the General Election, would anyone trust a Labour government to handle the negotiations fairly when a sizeable proportion of their MPs would likely be Scottish? And, if, as seems likely, the outcome is another nearly hung Parliament, the West Lothian issue becomes massive.
A lot is made of Cameron's vulnerability if the Yes troops win - but all major parties supported his line, and he did, after all, offer the people their voice, so he can be portrayed as a true democrat.
Of course, the end result might be a massive protest vote for UKIP, wiping out all three "sensible" parties. I hope the British are not that stupid - and I hope we get a No vote
 

AM9

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Could be quite interesting. If there is a "Yes", while, of course, Scots would still be a part of the General Election, would anyone trust a Labour government to handle the negotiations fairly when a sizeable proportion of their MPs would likely be Scottish?

If Salmond and the SNP are really likely to take a hit after a yes or a no, Labour would be there as the SLP or the UK LP to pick up votes from a thoroughly disenchanted population. So they would be seen to support those in Scotland who might vote them in as a government.
 

DarloRich

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I wonder if anyone has seen the speech made today by Gordon Brown - it was an impassioned defense of the union and an attack on the SNP/yes campaign faults, seemingly from memory, with many saying it is the speech of his life.

If you have 13 minutes spare it is well worth watching on you tube.
 

Johnuk123

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I wonder if anyone has seen the speech made today by Gordon Brown - it was an impassioned defense of the union and an attack on the SNP/yes campaign faults, seemingly from memory, with many saying it is the speech of his life.

If you have 13 minutes spare it is well worth watching on you tube.

That'll be the bloke who has sulked for 4 years and been a completely anonymous mp hardly setting foot in parliament.

If it's possible I think I dislike him even more than darling Tony.
His decline started after his famous "bigoted woman" slur.

I saw a bit of his speech on Sky and he was quite good to be fair, still can't stand him though.
 

Giugiaro

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Just got some discussion on a Facebook page, watching some lads over here thinking about taking up Scotland's place in the case YES wins.

At least the Union Jack would remain the same, although with a lighter shade of blue:

 

507 001

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I saw Gordon Brown's speech and couldn't help but think why couldn't he have been that good when he was PM?

This may have already been asked (and may be a stupid question) but in the event of a yes vote, would the DfT (as they seem to dictate stock allocation these days) be able or even be obliged to instruct the leasing companies to remove locos and rolling stock from Scotland?
 

Abpj17

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I saw Gordon Brown's speech and couldn't help but think why couldn't he have been that good when he was PM?

This may have already been asked (and may be a stupid question) but in the event of a yes vote, would the DfT (as they seem to dictate stock allocation these days) be able or even be obliged to instruct the leasing companies to remove locos and rolling stock from Scotland?

His time as PM wasn't his highest moment. He doesn't win popularity contests. But he has more gravitas and comprehension of serious, weighty briefs and solid (Scottish Presbyterian?) values than Blair ever did.
 
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