First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[winston270twm]

Could be.... Might be something else though

A Wessex logo?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That's the only section that's been cancelled, the Dursley to Bristol section has been re numbered 88 and is due to start/finish in the bus stations. Probably something to do with GCC in light of the Cotswold Green and Stagecoach West changes?
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At least someone can see what I'm getting at!

Could be.... Might be something else though

What...... Comfy-lux

We may have to have a competition as to the naffest logo (and no, you can have the F-in First)

 

[ValleyLines142]

At least someone can see what I'm getting at!

I knew exactly what you mean but you still haven't answered my question as to why it can't happen in practice.

Saying 'Enviro 400s are exclusively used on the Park and Ride and nothing else, yet other buses could go on the route' is just making a statement, not explaining why.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I knew exactly what you mean but you still haven't answered my question as to why it can't happen in practice.

Saying 'Enviro 400s are exclusively used on the Park and Ride and nothing else, yet other buses could go on the route' is just making a statement, not explaining why.

Swifty said "Because they're specifically allocated for the Park & Ride! The only drivers type trained on them are the P&R drivers, who also happen to be on a seperate rota to service work."

What more are you expecting to hear?

 

[Class 33]

Great news that the 20 will be re-instated, albeit renumbered 520 and running only hourly. It will actually be a circular style Broadmead(Lewins Mead)-Westbury-Broadmead service. To elaborate, that's Broadmead through to Westbury and then back the same way. Broadmead being the only terminating point.

 

[vicbury]

I think the point is that standard stuff does appear on the Bath P&R (Geminis but also the odd ALX400) and the A1 (Eclipses) but NOT the other way round. In 8 years, I can't recall a Bath P&R B7 or e400 appearing on a local route (like the 14) let alone anything like the X39.

I think that I may have once seen one of the Park & Ride B7s on the X39, that may be rose-tinted glasses though!

This week I've travelled by bus a fair bit more than usual - enjoyed an R-reg Marshall Dart on the 36 in Bristol. It was quite comfortable actually although a shame they are only fitted with two opening windows!

I also travelled on a B7 Gemini on the X39, a nice runner but had windows which slammed themselves shut when going over bumps at speed!

The B7Ls seem to have found a new home on the 14 in Bath, as well as the 5 and 319. Also on the 14 today were an ALX400 and a Gemini. Double deckers are overkill but the B7Ls are most welcome as the short Enviro 200s don't give enough seats for this route.

 

[Colly405]

Great news that the 20 will be re-instated, albeit renumbered 520 and running only hourly. It will actually be a circular style Broadmead(Lewins Mead)-Westbury-Broadmead service. To elaborate, that's Broadmead through to Westbury and then back the same way. Broadmead being the only terminating point.

Yes, I saw that on the First timetable leaflet that it is running wiht Westbury as an intermediate point rather than terminus. Why? There aren't any stops that would count as being on a "circular". Also noted that the map in the leaflet shows it running to the canford Lane stop one beyond Westbury Village, but that it is called "Westbury Village".

Also I see (and I can't see that anyone else has noted this) that the new 35 seems to be using the central area stops the same as the 43, including the Broad Quay terminus.

Swifty - you seem in the know. Any idea about the new 83 in November?

 

[Class 33]

Yes, I saw that on the First timetable leaflet that it is running wiht Westbury as an intermediate point rather than terminus. Why? There aren't any stops that would count as being on a "circular". Also noted that the map in the leaflet shows it running to the canford Lane stop one beyond Westbury Village, but that it is called "Westbury Village".

Also I see (and I can't see that anyone else has noted this) that the new 35 seems to be using the central area stops the same as the 43, including the Broad Quay terminus.

Swifty - you seem in the know. Any idea about the new 83 in November?

Yes not really a circular service in the strictest sense of the word. But not really the A-B type service it was. Broadmead to Westbury and returning straight back to Broadmead.

It only has a 5 minute layover time in Broadmead. Which means if the service gets delayed enroute during the 55 minute journey, the proceeding service will be late.

I'm also intrigued about the new service 83. I have enquired about this on First Bristol's Twitter page. But it looks like they're ignoring my polite question!! They're probably surprised that I even know there will be a new service 83! As they have not informed the public about it yet via their website, notices on buses, etc.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes not really a circular service in the strictest sense of the word. But not really the A-B type service it was. Broadmead to Westbury and returning straight back to Broadmead.

It only has a 5 minute layover time in Broadmead. Which means if the service gets delayed enroute during the 55 minute journey, the proceeding service will be late.

I'm also intrigued about the new service 83. I have enquired about this on First Bristol's Twitter page. But haven't had a reply yet. They're probably surprised that I even know there will be a new service 83! As they have not informed the public about it yet via their website, notices on buses, etc.

I think that's how the timetable is formatted but in reality, it is an A-B service. As regards layover, well they've got 8% recover time (5 mins) during the day and staggered departures late on as well.

 

[swifty]

I'm also intrigued about the new service 83. I have enquired about this on First Bristol's Twitter page. But it looks like they're ignoring my polite question!! They're probably surprised that I even know there will be a new service 83! As they have not informed the public about it yet via their website, notices on buses, etc.

Just a heads up - doing that will only annoy them. There is a reason why nothing has been released publically yet and it will be when they're ready to make a statement. Enthusiasts asking about services being withdrawn/changed/introduced on Twitter as soon as they've gone through Vosa reflects badly on all of us.
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I knew exactly what you mean but you still haven't answered my question as to why it can't happen in practice.

Saying 'Enviro 400s are exclusively used on the Park and Ride and nothing else, yet other buses could go on the route' is just making a statement, not explaining why.

I suggest you re-read my original post and you'll see WHY they are not used on other services.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Swifty said "Because they're specifically allocated for the Park & Ride! The only drivers type trained on them are the P&R drivers, who also happen to be on a seperate rota to service work."

What more are you expecting to hear?

Calm your tits! I missed that post.

You're always nasty to me

It seems odd that ALL buses can go on the P&R (rare but possible), yet NO Enviros can go on the 14, X39 or 319.

Weston has a load of Enviros so training shouldn't be a problem really.

Not that any of this matters, might I add, but would be nice to see as I think we're in need of a few more deckers.

 

[Class 33]

I don't know why it reflects badly on all of us to be honest, just asking polite questions about new services, service alterations, etc. But it appears obvious that First do not wish to talk about it for some reason! But not to worry. Will just wait for the information to appear on TravelineSW probably next week now, which will be several weeks before First publicise it on their website.

 

[THarris123]

The 376 was still all Eclipse today so is this taking the ones off the 173 (only 3) and also will they acquire the X49 ones (which would be more sensible)?

What Darts have gone to WS? If they're heading onto the 173, don't know how the capacity will hold up and won't that go against the GBBN commitment?

Why don't they use the ones from Bath, Weston and LH? That would be in total 13. By my workings they only need 12 for 70/71. That would be sufficient without wrecking the Wells fleet.

You seriously can't have those crappy darts on 173. They're no good for hills. 43849 was on the 173 this morning.

It makes you wonder what Wells will receive in the next few months.

The majority of B7s are still in Wells. I saw 69438, 69439, 69440, 69441, 69443, 69446 & 69448 today. So there's still enough for the 376, which is the main one these should be on.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Calm your tits! I missed that post.

You're always nasty to me

It seems odd that ALL buses can go on the P&R (rare but possible), yet NO Enviros can go on the 14, X39 or 319.

Weston has a load of Enviros so training shouldn't be a problem really.

Not that any of this matters, might I add, but would be nice to see as I think we're in need of a few more deckers.

I'm not certain about the contractual relationship and the stipulations/business case behind GBF. However, assume that the bid was successful because of the need to improve air quality in Bath, and that BaNES are also part funding the buses.

In that instance, how does it go down if First then send those vehicles on services that spend most of their time in Bristol or South Glos? Think about the letters page in the Bath Chronicle...... that's what politicians do!

Also, the Enviros at Weston aren't hybrid and so that's not an issue. You could, of course, type train all the Bath drivers using a spare Bath vehicle but, as Swifty says, it's a closed rota so why bother?

I don't think people are nasty to you and I'm certainly not; I'm just very direct. Perhaps take two minutes out to take a fully considered view and don't post so stridently without actually considering or knowing the facts. Now everyone, play nice and love each other
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I don't know why it reflects badly on all of us to be honest, just asking polite questions about new services, service alterations, etc. But it appears obvious that First do not wish to talk about it for some reason! But not to worry. Will just wait for the information to appear on TravelineSW probably next week now, which will be several weeks before First publicise it on their website.

I'm with Swifty on this one. First obviously have to register changes through VoSA as a legal requirement but they will have various other things that they are busy with such as publicity etc. Then don't want to be railroaded into making announcements etc when they're not ready to do so.

Enthusiasts posting on twitter or FB can seem like experts but, as we see on this board, there's a lot of tosh spouted (as well as the odd genuine if misguided assumption or plain error).

Email directly by all means and you may get a response but do it on an open forum can be counterproductive; the saga of the 20 probably highlights that

 

[Private Baxter]

A couple of observations in Bath today;

66352 has been painted, meaning this fleet has been completed. Hopefully now they will resume with the newer B7s.

Also 69437 was working 173! This either means that it has returned to Wells, (which begs the question why not send it to Hengrove?), or it is on loan, maybe to replace one of Bath's other buses in Wells, which is more likely.

 

[Class 33]

Seen two Marshall Darts on the 24 this morning. Unusual for them to be on the 24?

Looking forward to the introduction of the 71 on Sunday. I will time my trip to town or wherever so that I can get a 71 on the outbound and return journey. The inaugural service will be the 0915 UWE-Temple Meads. Doubt I'll be up that early to get on that one though! Should be interesting to see which buses will be used, especially on Mondays-Saturdays with the higher frequency of service.

Interestingly I note on the Northbound service on Sundays. They depart the Centre just TWO minutes after the Northbound 73's which follow the same route as the 71 as far as Filton McDonalds! Whilst in the Southbound direction, the 71 runs 7 minutes ahead of the 73 from Filton McDonalds. The timetabling of the 71 though will ease over-crowding on the 73 in both directions though. So this is all definitely good.

And I wonder which services will use the ex-Glasgow Tridents?

 

[ValleyLines142]

I'm not certain about the contractual relationship and the stipulations/business case behind GBF. However, assume that the bid was successful because of the need to improve air quality in Bath, and that BaNES are also part funding the buses.

In that instance, how does it go down if First then send those vehicles on services that spend most of their time in Bristol or South Glos? Think about the letters page in the Bath Chronicle...... that's what politicians do!

Also, the Enviros at Weston aren't hybrid and so that's not an issue. You could, of course, type train all the Bath drivers using a spare Bath vehicle but, as Swifty says, it's a closed rota so why bother?

I don't think people are nasty to you and I'm certainly not; I'm just very direct. Perhaps take two minutes out to take a fully considered view and don't post so stridently without actually considering or knowing the facts. Now everyone, play nice and love each other

You're evil! End of story

It's a shame as it'd be nice for Bristol to have some variety like Bath. As much as I love Geminis it'd be nice to see some Enviros or something (and NOT the Volvo B10L's that work the 41 and the 309!)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You're evil! End of story

It's a shame as it'd be nice for Bristol to have some variety like Bath. As much as I love Geminis it'd be nice to see some Enviros or something (and NOT the Volvo B10L's that work the 41 and the 309!)

Evil? I've been called worse

I think you might see e400s next year based on no more than a need to have a balanced age profile. However, single decks remain the priority

Oh and they're B10BLEs (step free)

 

[freetoview33]

I hope we do see enviro 400s and I won't get involved with this domestic!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I hope we do see enviro 400s and I won't get involved with this domestic!

It is 2009 since the city had new deckers (though it had a lot 2005-9) so probably due. Whether that'll mean older deckers are cascaded and net percentage of DDs remains the same, who knows and it's all conjecture.

There's no domestics just some robust discussion; remember that I'm just a man tragically in his 40s wondering where it all went (and what happened to his fringe)!!!!! :roll:

 

[ValleyLines142]

Seen two Marshall Darts on the 24 this morning. Unusual for them to be on the 24?

It is quite unusual. Must have been a shortage of Streetlites.

Looking forward to the introduction of the 71 on Sunday. I will time my trip to town or wherever so that I can get a 71 on the outbound and return journey. The inaugural service will be the 0915 UWE-Temple Meads. Doubt I'll be up that early to get on that one though! Should be interesting to see which buses will be used, especially on Mondays-Saturdays with the higher frequency of service.

Interestingly I note on the Northbound service on Sundays. They depart the Centre just TWO minutes after the Northbound 73's which follow the same route as the 71 as far as Filton McDonalds! Whilst in the Southbound direction, the 71 runs 7 minutes ahead of the 73 from Filton McDonalds. The timetabling of the 71 though will ease over-crowding on the 73 in both directions though. So this is all definitely good.

I'm also looking very much forward to the 71, even though it is exactly the same as the 11. I wonder what will be used on the route. Probably sodding Urbans but there won't be enough for the 70 AND the 71 (especially as some are used on the 41 and the X49 too) so I think a few Streetlites will appear too.

Evil? I've been called worse

You're not worse than evil!

I think you might see e400s next year based on no more than a need to have a balanced age profile. However, single decks remain the priority.

But then it was only a few weeks ago when you said that Bristol had deckers recently and that there didn't need to be any more, as places such as Sheffield had no new stock since about 2005. Now that they've had Enviro 400s, has your view changed?

Oh and they're B10BLEs (step free)

Meh....whatever they're still old!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm also looking very much forward to the 71, even though it is exactly the same as the 11. I wonder what will be used on the route. Probably sodding Urbans but there won't be enough for the 70 AND the 71 (especially as some are used on the 41 and the X49 too) so I think a few Streetlites will appear too.

But then it was only a few weeks ago when you said that Bristol had deckers recently and that there didn't need to be any more, as places such as Sheffield had no new stock since about 2005. Now that they've had Enviro 400s, has your view changed?

There are only two at LH (69457/8) that usually appear on X49 though they might appear on the 41.

I think, when mentioning Rusholme, Olive Green and Bramley, we were discussing 2014 deliveries. Once this year is done and those fleets updated, then Bristol has more justification for 2015.

 

[stait.john]

Or Leeds has another batch of E400s and some of the 12-plate B9TLs that were used at the Olympics when new could be cascaded down here to keep a standard fleet?

Just a thought!

I don't know if they are loans or transfers but B7RLEs 69435, 69436, 69459 & 69460 ate now at Hengrove.

John

 

[baza585]

Or Leeds has another batch of E400s and some of the 12-plate B9TLs that were used at the Olympics when new could be cascaded down here to keep a standard fleet?

Just a thought!

John

I think that is a bit optimistic. AFAIK West Yorkshire has a sizeable fleet of Olympians still in all day service; I imagine some of them will be what is released by the new E40D/E400s; I can see them heading south west but Cornwall is the more likely destination IMHO.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think that is a bit optimistic. AFAIK West Yorkshire has a sizeable fleet of Olympians still in all day service; I imagine some of them will be what is released by the new E40D/E400s; I can see them heading south west but Cornwall is the more likely destination IMHO.

Exactly. There's still a raft of Olympians that this years batch will be aiming to displace in Bramley (Leeds). I don't know if those Olyms at any better than the ones Cornwall already have.

As for standardisation, e400s are the preferred choice and the B9 is no more so I think they'll come (in fact FSA already has two batches so you can argue they're already here).

The 2014 orders are delivered. I'm sure that all firms are putting business cases together in preparation for 2015 intake. However, deckers will be the minority and expect a shirt load more Streetlites as they look to get rid of older non DDA Darts (like the beautiful 42754 - just seen heading off on the X72 Bath to Urchfont!!)

There's no guarantees but I wouldn't be surprised if a modest number of e400s came next year for something like the 75 but, as ever, we will have to wait and see!

 

[THarris123]

The 2014 orders are delivered. I'm sure that all firms are putting business cases together in preparation for 2015 intake. However, deckers will be the minority and expect a shirt load more Streetlites as they look to get rid of older non DDA Darts (like the beautiful 42754 - just seen heading off on the X72 Bath to Urchfont!!)

Sorry to pick up on this as it is very minor - but do you mean the 272? The X72 is run by Faresaver.
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I'm also looking very much forward to the 71, even though it is exactly the same as the 11. I wonder what will be used on the route. Probably sodding Urbans but there won't be enough for the 70 AND the 71 (especially as some are used on the 41 and the X49 too) so I think a few Streetlites will appear too.

If you've looked at some of the other posts regarding Hengrove transfers and the Wells thread, you would see that 69435/6 and 69459/60 have been transferred into Hengrove to run the 70 & 71. The 59 plate Eclipses will be used on these services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry to pick up on this as it is very minor - but do you mean the 272? The X72 is run by Faresaver.
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If you've looked at some of the other posts regarding Hengrove transfers and the Wells thread, you would see that 69435/6 and 69459/60 have been transferred into Hengrove to run the 70 & 71. The 59 plate Eclipses will be used on these services.

You're quite right - twas the 272!

The Eclipses being drafted in for 71 - someone on this board ain't gonna be happy

 

[Class 33]

Got a return journey on the new 71 today. Before the bus arrived I saw a Northbound 71 going up and it was a bloody Eclipse. This ain't looking good I thought. Anyway the Southbound 71 turned up and of course it was a bloody Eclipse! Usually if an Eclipse turned up, I'd just wait for the next alternative service instead and board that one. But I did want to get a return journey on the 71 today, with it being the inaugural day of service today. Anyway during the journey down to Broadmead, surprisingly there were a number of people at bus stops enroute who didn't put their hand out to board it. Maybe they wanted to travel onto Bedminster, Bishopsworth, etc. Or they didn't want to get on an Eclipse/single decker bus!? Seen another Eclipse on another Northbound 71 on the way down. It wasn't much of a surprise though to see Eclipse's on the 70 & 71 on Sundays with the less frequent service.

After a bit of shopping in town I decided to get a 71 on the way back again. I of course had worked out that it would definitely be an Eclipse though. But on this occasion(the inagural day of the new service 71) I would get on it anyway. It seemed the heating was on as well! So a bit of a stuffy hot journey! Why oh why do they have the heating on when the weather is warm??!! Ridiculous!

I was going to say that there's probably more chance of some other different buses on the 70 & 71 on Mondays-Saturdays with the more frequent service. But from the recent post on this thread, it appears they will still all be Eclipse's!! Oh well. Will just have to get the 73, 75, 76, or 309 instead as I usually do! I wont bother walking to the closer Filton Avenue stop to get a Southbound bus, I'll walk to the slightly further away Filton Road instead! Even if I'm going to Temple Meads I'd rather get a bus to Broadmead and then change to an 8 or 9 instead. Oh well! Bit of a disappointment after all that, but still. Am not a fan of these Eclipse's, so I will continue to avoid 'em!

That said though, it is good that the new 71 has been introduced. And will ease overcrowding on the 70 and 73 at busier times.

 

[THarris123]

You're quite right - twas the 272!

The Eclipses being drafted in for 71 - someone on this board ain't gonna be happy

I, for one, am very happy to see the Eclipses still on the 70. They seem to be the best vehicles for going up quite sharp steep hills. The 376, 173 and 70 and the main ones I can think of in this area that should have these. Until they come up with something better, it is a good idea for these to be on these routes.

I think there are a lot of routes they shouldn't be on - I remember when I saw them on the university routes in Bath (yes it is a hill on the 18, but 54 plate eclipses and Bendys are better for that service).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I, for one, am very happy to see the Eclipses still on the 70. They seem to be the best vehicles for going up quite sharp steep hills. The 376, 173 and 70 and the main ones I can think of in this area that should have these. Until they come up with something better, it is a good idea for these to be on these routes.

I think there are a lot of routes they shouldn't be on - I remember when I saw them on the university routes in Bath (yes it is a hill on the 18, but 54 plate eclipses and Bendys are better for that service).

The 70/71 are not really hilly routes and not in comparison with stuff like the X2/3 or the 231 or 265. Would sooner the 59 plates were on the 265 and 55 plates (with their bus seats) on the 70/71.