First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Of course the 665. Saw that the other day. How long has it been running? Is it fairly recent?

Banes leaflet is dated 2011 and it was running before then.

 

[THarris123]

Banes leaflet is dated 2011 and it was running before then.

Just looked at CT coaches website - they've got a map of the route, along with pictures of their vehicles dated back to 2005 (that's going to show good publicity!!) 46603 looks better than all of their fleet combined. Even 41144 and 41156 does.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just looked at CT coaches website - they've got a map of the route, along with pictures of their vehicles dated back to 2005 (that's going to show good publicity!!) 46603 looks better than all of their fleet combined. Even 41144 and 41156 does.

Haha. The CT Solo has quite a few battle scars. Assume that might be their vehicle for the 2, given that they're losing the 768?

That said, look at the rear of 46603 and the barbie paint is now showing quite a bit of Cityline yellow!!

Just checked the excellent bvbg site and looks like the 665 dates from 2001. Originally a First Badgerline route (in fact it was 664/5).

 

[swifty]

Just looked at CT coaches website - they've got a map of the route, along with pictures of their vehicles dated back to 2005 (that's going to show good publicity!!) 46603 looks better than all of their fleet combined. Even 41144 and 41156 does.

It's been running since at least 1996, but only in its current form since CT took over from BANES in 2009, after being merged with the Keynsham to Saltford 664 that used the same vehicle. Before that they were worked by Badgerline, Streamline, Silverwing and then FSA.

These services being a evolution of the L (Longmeadow Road) & S (Saltford) town services which evolved from the old Minilink routes. IIRC they were worked by KeynshamKonnection branded snoopies?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's been running since at least 1996, but only in its current form since CT took over from BANES in 2009, after being merged with the Keynsham to Saltford 664 that used the same vehicle. Before that they were worked by Badgerline, Streamline, Silverwing and then FSA.

These services being a evolution of the L (Longmeadow Road) & S (Saltford) town services which evolved from the old Minilink routes. IIRC they were worked by KeynshamKonnection branded snoopies?

Snoopies..... That takes me back! Might've guessed you'd know the full provenance. The days when seemingly every town had a mini link service or two!

 

[swifty]

Snoopies..... That takes me back! Might've guessed you'd know the full provenance. The days when seemingly every town had a mini link service or two!

I've found an old leaflet that gives a 15 min frequency for Longmeadow Road and Park Estate and a 20 min frequency for Chandag when the services started in Oct 86.

The outstation was Keynsham rugby club wasn't it, there's a few pictures in the Badgerline book by Martin Curtis and Mike Walker.

Snoopies started off on the service and were replaced by 7 Robin Hood bodied Ivecos in 1988.

The snoopies were used again after Normans Coaches were taken over and were all white with the Merry-go-round fleet name.

 

[Private Baxter]

46603 is looking a bit shabby at the back, but otherwise fine, and I agree I think it is in better condition than any of the other darts at WS, with the exception of SN05 HEJ.

Changing the subject I noticed today that 10178 has been painted out of Eden livery and in to Bath Uni livery, minus that awful Devastain' Dave nonsence. Hopefully it stays like that as it's much better without all the silly pictures!

 

[swifty]

Changing the subject I noticed today that 10178 has been painted out of Eden livery and in to Bath Uni livery, minus that awful Devastain' Dave nonsence. Hopefully it stays like that as it's much better without all the silly pictures!

Excellent news, typical First though not following on with the Devistatin Dave branding! I always found it odd how the W reg bendies were never fully finished off in the new livery as well.

 

[windnoise69]

Is the 665 a new route by first? And if so what be type of bus normally run in it? Surely just a solo would do!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is the 665 a new route by first? And if so what be type of bus normally run in it? Surely just a solo would do!

It's a Solo operated by BaNES. Think it does a welfare school run and does the 665 off peak.
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I've found an old leaflet that gives a 15 min frequency for Longmeadow Road and Park Estate and a 20 min frequency for Chandag when the services started in Oct 86.

The outstation was Keynsham rugby club wasn't it, there's a few pictures in the Badgerline book by Martin Curtis and Mike Walker.

Snoopies started off on the service and were replaced by 7 Robin Hood bodied Ivecos in 1988.

The snoopies were used again after Normans Coaches were taken over and were all white with the Merry-go-round fleet name.

It was slightly before my time. Were the Snoopies ex WN? I really started visiting the area in 92 and remember travelling on the older bread vans. Bit of a novelty as my home area favoured the Merc 608 more. One country route they could be found on was ...the 161 naturally.

 

[swifty]

It's a Solo operated by BaNES. Think it does a welfare school run and does the 665 off peak.
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It was slightly before my time. Were the Snoopies ex WN? I really started visiting the area in 92 and remember travelling on the older bread vans. Bit of a novelty as my home area favoured the Merc 608 more. One country route they could be found on was ...the 161 naturally.

No I'm fairly sure they were the native C-BFB batch, followed by the native E-LAEs.

 

[Private Baxter]

Excellent news, typical First though not following on with the Devistatin Dave branding! I always found it odd how the W reg bendies were never fully finished off in the new livery as well.

It was always an unusual thing those bendies, never knew why some of them were never completed, even two years on. 10178 doesn't look complete yet, it doesn't have any WOE logos or University of Bath signage, but in time I expect it will. (In a few years perhaps ) Personally I much prefered the old bright orange, shame they didn't stick with it. Standard First Olympia liver would also be better. Also wondering if it will lose its privatised plate and get its old one back??

 

[swifty]

It was always an unusual thing those bendies, never knew why some of them were never completed, even two years on. 10178 doesn't look complete yet, it doesn't have any WOE logos or University of Bath signage, but in time I expect it will. (In a few years perhaps ) Personally I much prefered the old bright orange, shame they didn't stick with it. Standard First Olympia liver would also be better. Also wondering if it will lose its privatised plate and get its old one back??

It was a shame to loose the BOB brand, they could have gone with this and used blue for the skirt and yellow instead of the green, to fit the BOB colour scheme.


First Midland 36013 (SN05HWL) by haley111, on Flickr

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

No I'm fairly sure they were the native C-BFB batch, followed by the native E-LAEs.

Did the C-BFBs not have bonnets like the B-WTCs? I always though Snoopies referred to the later ones with the sloping front? Genuine question as my knowledge of dereg minis was dominated by L608s and (possibly the worst ever buses to carry a passenger) Dodge S56s!!

Think I've mentioned it before that I did a three breadvan run from Glastonbury to Shepton to Frome to Warminster. Classic Badgerline and a spirited jaunt. Got me into Warminster to catch my W&D Duple Laser bodied Tiger to Salisbury. Solos don't have the same appeal though they are better machines for passengers!

 

[swifty]

Did the C-BFBs not have bonnets like the B-WTCs? I always though Snoopies referred to the later ones with the sloping front? Genuine question as my knowledge of dereg minis was dominated by L608s and (possibly the worst ever buses to carry a passenger) Dodge S56s!!

Think I've mentioned it before that I did a three breadvan run from Glastonbury to Shepton to Frome to Warminster. Classic Badgerline and a spirited jaunt. Got me into Warminster to catch my W&D Duple Laser bodied Tiger to Salisbury. Solos don't have the same appeal though they are better machines for passengers!

Duh! Of course the Snoopies were the Mk2 Dormobilles, WNs D-KRLs that transferred up and saw some use with Badger Vectis. They didn't last long within the group though IIRC?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was a shame to loose the BOB brand, they could have gone with this and used blue for the skirt and yellow instead of the green, to fit the BOB colour scheme.


First Midland 36013 (SN05HWL) by haley111, on Flickr

Agree, the BOB was quite fetching.
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Duh! Of course the Snoopies were the Mk2 Dormobilles, WNs D-KRLs that transferred up and saw some use with Badger Vectis.

Did they end up in Bath after BV? I seem to think they might but I seem to remember the older ones more clearly. Perhaps because I spent more time in Wells at that time to experience the last days of the REs

Just checked my records and it was two Transits (4500 & 4537) with the 53 being an Iveco. On the same day, also did a 15 (Bridgwater to Street) on an SN Transit! No wonder I have back problems now

 

[swifty]

Agree, the BOB was quite fetching.
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Did they end up in Bath after BV? I seem to think they might but I seem to remember the older ones more clearly. Perhaps because I spent more time in Wells at that time to experience the last days of the REs

Just checked my records and it was two Transits (4500 & 4537) with the 53 being an Iveco. On the same day, also did a 15 (Bridgwater to Street) on an SN Transit! No wonder I have back problems now

They were in Salisbury for a short period before moving into Bath, I'm not sure they stayed long and there were only 12 amongst all the earlier models.

It's strange to think back to how many services used to be operated by Transits and the like, and then following on the Merc Beavers. South Gloucestershire's use of Beavers on the majority of services used to bring back memories!

The likes of Cawlett buying a batch of new Mercs every year until the First buy out and starvation of new kit and retraction of the network. It's a shame that so many services have been curtailed since that golden era! At least there's a glimmer of hope under BoS though!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They were in Salisbury for a short period before moving into Bath, I'm not sure they stayed long and there were only 12 amongst all the earlier models.

It's strange to think back to how many services used to be operated by Transits and the like, following on the Merc Beavers.

The likes of Cawlett buying a batch of new Mercs every year until the First buy out and starvation of new kit and retraction of the network. It's a shame that so many services have been curtailed since that golden era! At least there's a glimmer of hope under BoS though!

Also, bit of shift of mindset in that First now realise that the margin expectations in areas like Somerset just aren't attainable and that lower margins (as long as it covers operating costs and contributes to depot/central overheads) might be better than the few decent services shouldering an ever increasing burden. That and tendered work providing an income to operators who then fancy having a go at the good stuff (e.g. Webberbus, SWC, Nippybus, Faresaver et al).

All those routes I enjoyed in the early to mid 90s such as Dorchester to Yeovil, Warminster to Frome, Shepton to Street. And I never did do the 176 Shepton to Bath on a rattly Mk1 National. Never mind, eh!

And yes, I remember when the Taunton to Burnham (21) got brand new 33 seat Mercs! Seem to recall one ended up on crew shuttles at LH, IIRC!

 

[swifty]

Also, bit of shift of mindset in that First now realise that the margin expectations in areas like Somerset just aren't attainable and that lower margins (as long as it covers operating costs and contributes to depot/central overheads) might be better than the few decent services shouldering an ever increasing burden. That and tendered work providing an income to operators who then fancy having a go at the good stuff (e.g. Webberbus, SWC, Nippybus, Faresaver et al).

All those routes I enjoyed in the early to mid 90s such as Dorchester to Yeovil, Warminster to Frome, Shepton to Street. And I never did do the 176 Shepton to Bath on a rattly Mk1 National. Never mind, eh!

And yes, I remember when the Taunton to Burnham (21) got brand new 33 seat Mercs! Seem to recall one ended up on crew shuttles at LH, IIRC!

That's exactly where First went wrong, Muir became obsessed by the margins and forgot about the bigger picture of having a network of useful services. The more they cut back the more the burden placed on the remaining routes to cover the margins. It's all a vicious circle and then the indies come sniffing, Yeovil being a prime example, c.70 buses in '98 and c.14 today! I think, hopefully, in our region they've slowly begun to realise this and the networks are slowly growing again, especially with all the gains in Bristol. At the moment some services may not be covering costs, but in time as patronage grows, hopefully, services will become self sufficient again.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Had 32011 on a 44 into the centre last night, possibly the most rickitiest, clunky bus I've ever been on! Felt sorry for the poor buggers that went all the way to Cadbury Heath on the 43 back!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Had 32011 on a 44 into the centre last night, possibly the most rickitiest, clunky bus I've ever been on! Felt sorry for the poor buggers that went all the way to Cadbury Heath on the 43 back!

Not one that's seared onto my memory. However, I can't believe that it's as bad as Bath's 44919. Very possibly one of the worst buses I have ever been on (Vicbury will also bear testament). At least 32011 is 14 years old - 44919 hasn't even got that excuse!!
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That's exactly where First went wrong, Muir became obsessed by the margins and forgot about the bigger picture of having a network of useful services. The more they cut back the more the burden placed on the remaining routes to cover the margins. It's all a vicious circle and then the indies come sniffing, Yeovil being a prime example, c.70 buses in '98 and c.14 today! I think, hopefully, in our region they've slowly begun to realise this and the networks are slowly growing again, especially with all the gains in Bristol. At the moment some services may not be covering costs, but in time as patronage grows, hopefully, services will become self sufficient again.

Yeovil is perhaps the most shocking example of decline from the Lockhead years (along with Northampton and what was SMT). How they come back from there, I don't know. Turning it green might be cosmetic job but the impact of SWC, Nippy and Damory has laid waste to it and it's a long time til Dorset tenders are due to be re-let.

 

[South Westerly]

Not one that's seared onto my memory. However, I can't believe that it's as bad as Bath's 44919. Very possibly one of the worst buses I have ever been on (Vicbury will also bear testament). At least 32011 is 14 years old - 44919 hasn't even got that excuse!!
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Yeovil is perhaps the most shocking example of decline from the Lockhead years (along with Northampton and what was SMT). How they come back from there, I don't know. Turning it green might be cosmetic job but the impact of SWC, Nippy and Damory has laid waste to it and it's a long time til Dorset tenders are due to be re-let.

Yeovil hasn't turned green...

 

[swifty]

Had 32011 on a 44 into the centre last night, possibly the most rickitiest, clunky bus I've ever been on! Felt sorry for the poor buggers that went all the way to Cadbury Heath on the 43 back!

I can't recall which one, possibly 7 or 8, but it really struggled up Park Street the other week, slowing to a snails pace. Some of them are getting on a bit now and the seating really isn't the best.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yeovil hasn't turned green...

I know.

I perhaps should've been clearer in saying that even if the management was moved to BoS from FHD, I struggle to see how it can get out of the situation it finds itself in. A few town services and a service or two to Sherborne and Wincanton is rather parlous!
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I can't recall which one, possibly 7 or 8, but it really struggled up Park Street the other week, slowing to a snails pace. Some of them are getting on a bit now and the seating really isn't the best.

Noticeable that whilst the 2003 examples that have been painted have received e-leather, the W regs haven't AFAIK.

I believe that Southampton have sent some of theirs (W-EOW) to South Wales prompting similar reports of lack of speed/power. A thought that crossed my mind was that some (either Soton or Bristol) might head to Weymouth or Soton schools fleet to replace Olyms there and displace Tridents to Cornwall for Olympian replacement.

That said, the Olyms are probably more reliable!

 

[swifty]

Noticeable that whilst the 2003 examples that have been painted have received e-leather, the W regs haven't AFAIK.

I believe that Southampton have sent some of theirs (W-EOW) to South Wales prompting similar reports of lack of speed/power. A thought that crossed my mind was that some (either Soton or Bristol) might head to Weymouth or Soton schools fleet to replace Olyms there and displace Tridents to Cornwall for Olympian replacement.

That said, the Olyms are probably more reliable!

A few of the PAEs have had their seats recovered in leather, they're still uncomfortable.

Weymouth are in the process of swapping all of their Tridents (apart from 32766) with B7TLs from Sotton, with three already at Weymouth with Wessex names applied. 32707/8 have gone in the opposite direction.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A few of the PAEs have had their seats recovered in leather, they're still uncomfortable.

Weymouth are in the process of swapping all of their Tridents (apart from 32766) with B7TLs from Sotton, with three already at Weymouth with Wessex names applied. 32707/8 have gone in the opposite direction.

I confess I've not seen any. You'd have thought the B7RLEs that they've painted would be more deserving of e-leather! I'm assuming they still haven't been reupholstered? Then there's the buttock numbing B7Ls and their tatty interiors.

I knew Weymouth had a B7TL on loan for the summer. That's now a permanent transfer plus at least another, and 32766 is the overall ad bus then? If they're losing the 55 plate Tridents, then are they getting some Soton Geminis as those 55s do step in on the X31/X53? Can't see the W regs keeping time as the grind through Charmuff!!

 

[CD]

I confess I've not seen any. You'd have thought the B7RLEs that they've painted would be more deserving of e-leather! I'm assuming they still haven't been reupholstered? Then there's the buttock numbing B7Ls and their tatty interiors.

I knew Weymouth had a B7TL on loan for the summer. That's now a permanent transfer plus at least another, and 32766 is the overall ad bus then? If they're losing the 55 plate Tridents, then are they getting some Soton Geminis as those 55s do step in on the X31/X53? Can't see the W regs keeping time as the grind through Charmuff!!

You must remember this is the same lot who painted 42821-3 in Marmite and even fitted leather seats to 42821 a 16 year old Dart. Then discarded all three to Yeovil.

 

[swifty]

I confess I've not seen any. You'd have thought the B7RLEs that they've painted would be more deserving of e-leather! I'm assuming they still haven't been reupholstered? Then there's the buttock numbing B7Ls and their tatty interiors.

That's something I've found strange too, I'm aware Bath haven't done theirs yet (I thought they were supposed to be done overnight a few months back?), but what about the few in Olympia at Weston? As for the B7Ls they could do with completely new seats altogether, I suppose its not as easy as taking them from withdrawn Darts?

I knew Weymouth had a B7TL on loan for the summer. That's now a permanent transfer plus at least another, and 32766 is the overall ad bus then? If they're losing the 55 plate Tridents, then are they getting some Soton Geminis as those 55s do step in on the X31/X53? Can't see the W regs keeping time as the grind through Charmuff!!

Maybe it's just to replace the two ex Bristol Tridents that have gone to Southampton for school work then?

The B7 has been out on the X31/53 a lot over the summer surprisingly, I can't imagine those seats are comfortable for a journey along the south coast!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe it's just to replace the two ex Bristol Tridents that have gone to Southampton for school work then?

The B7 has been out on the X31/53 a lot over the summer surprisingly, I can't imagine those seats are comfortable for a journey along the south coast!

Crikey chief! That must've been a challenge. Travel on those seats and keep time! Mind you, I was surprised when I saw 32701 on a 31 (just before the change) at Lyme.

Would make sense for Weymouth to have Volvos and then send all the Tridents to Southampton. Can't see the point of swapping just two pairs about.

Have to say the change in Weymouth compared to 2012 has been marked. Then they had to make do with fitting ancient Darts with leather seats. Whilst I had nothing more than a gut feeling that they'd get something, 20 new buses is a bit more than I could've expected.

 

[Class 33]

There was a discussion about Bristol buses on BBC Radio Bristol this morning. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02492zq

I haven't had time to listen to much of it atall. But skipping forward to 25 minutes and that guy who started the campaign for cheaper Bristol bus fares is on there, including mentioning that he is trying to get a campaign to save the service 20.

Whilst I can understand why First are axing the service because it's not profitable enough, I do though think that some solution/compromise must surely be found either by First or another operator so that people are not left without a bus service local to them(or travelling to certain destinations along the 20 route).

I noticed this posting on Twitter from City Fox Bus(??!!) https://twitter.com/CityFoxLimited/status/501358999896621057/photo/1 I wouldn't hold your breath for that happening though!

Anyone here who hasn't been on the 20 yet, well you now only have just a week a half left to do so before it's AXED!