First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Private Baxter]

In terms of the Wells depot receiving new buses, I think two options could happen:-
- They get 11 new buses for 376/173 (I did know it was 11 - not sure why I said 10?!) and 5-6 of the 59 plate Eclipses stay to replace the B10's. Darts will replace the rest. I'm pretty sure they will not get Streetlites - drivers don't want them down Wells and I get the feeling that the Streetlites are better off in the cities.
- They keep the 59 plate Eclipses and the 6635* range go from Bath to Wells to replace the B10's, etc.

I don't think anything else will happen.

Something will happen soon to Wells depot - 66100 spends everyday in the workshop (I saw it every evening last week in there), 66108 has basically had it, 66107 is falling to pieces. The only B10 that is left which is any good is 66160. 46603 has to go soon (but it is still keeping up shape), along with the Marshall. I think when the Streetlites come to Hengrove, Wells will see change.

It is quite right that Wells do seem to end up with new vehicles every 6 years or so, but I think they will extend that a year or so, due to all the replacements of DDA stuff.

Something else that I think could happen next year is Bath to get new streetlites, which will be based on the 14. Then the E200s/Darts would be cascaded elsewhere. The main reason why I say this is the S/R reg darts seem to be on there all the time, along with a few E200s.

I know the majority of you are going to tell me that I'm wrong, but I'm sure Wells won't get Streetlites and Bath will next year. That will then cascade some of the oldest DDA compliant vehicles into Wells. The 59 plate Eclipses will stay at the earliest until the beginning of 2016, but I suspect they will go on for longer.

Please can we move on now?

P.s. changed my mind on WM - they will get cascaded stuff.

I do envisage some B7s staying at Wells to work 377 once the 173/376 get new stuff, but part of me thinks something older will replace the B10s. It's possible that the current batch of 02 reg B7s at Bath will get replaced by new streetlites next year, thus sending them to Wells for 375/377/X75. Merely speculation I know.

66100 has often been quite problematic, I was always surprised they put it back in service after that fire in 2011. As for the other B10s. how much longer do we reckon?

Any new deliveries for Bath next year I would also like to see used on 14. This route needs better care as I consider it an important cross city route, yet it's the one that seems to end up with all the rubbish. And the 265 will probably be upgraded soon. The current vehicles used have been splendid on that route, but are starting to look tired.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I do envisage some B7s staying at Wells to work 377 once the 173/376 get new stuff, but part of me thinks something older will replace the B10s. It's possible that the current batch of 02 reg B7s at Bath will get replaced by new streetlites next year, thus sending them to Wells for 375/377/X75. Merely speculation I know.

66100 has often been quite problematic, I was always surprised they put it back in service after that fire in 2011. As for the other B10s. how much longer do we reckon?

Any new deliveries for Bath next year I would also like to see used on 14. This route needs better care as I consider it an important cross city route, yet it's the one that seems to end up with all the rubbish. And the 265 will probably be upgraded soon. The current vehicles used have been splendid on that route, but are starting to look tired.

As I said, the B10BLEs (R-BOU) have been excellent but they are showing their age. Might see the W regs replace them on 377 with Eclipses on 126? Darts for the 375/X75 unless the 37 disappears.

59 plates on 265 would be a welcome improvement. Had 66731 on there a few weeks ago out of Salisbury and it was creaking a bit. Quite a distance from BH; you wouldn't want a breakdown out there!

 

[Private Baxter]

As I said, the B10BLEs (R-BOU) have been excellent but they are showing their age. Might see the W regs replace them on 377 with Eclipses on 126? Darts for the 375/X75 unless the 37 disappears.

59 plates on 265 would be a welcome improvement. Had 66731 on there a few weeks ago out of Salisbury and it was creaking a bit. Quite a distance from BH; you wouldn't want a breakdown out there!

All of that makes sense tbh, and if WB 37 does go, then W reg B10s for the hourloyb 375 as well. Otherwise 06 reg darts. Just had a thought tho, maybe Wells could get some of the 54 plate eclipses back?? They would be good for those routes.

As seems to be popular consensus here, that is the best solution for 265. 69437 was on there yesterday. Perfect. As someone else suggested, they're also good on 37/38.

 

[ValleyLines142]

If you know that, why say that you think it should be a mix of SD/DD? And how, if you've not been on the route/know that part of town?

I said that the 6/7 DOES need some deckers. And yes I do think it should be a mixture of singles and doubles. Yes, when the schools/colleges kick out and when the rush hour kicks in, then doubles are definitely needed as even then the services are still busy, but although I haven't been on the route I've seen the 6 in Kingswood and it's practically empty. Even Bristol's key routes such as the 48 and the 75/76 aren't busy off-peak!

Do you genuinely think the 6/7 should be 100% deckers?

As for new kit on 161, suggest you get a day ticket and travel on routes like the 161 and 376 so you can speak from experience. Do that and you'll see the 161 is ok between Wells and Shepton (though a lot of ENCTS) but with very light loadings onward to Frome. Hence why it only gets the oldest fleet.

So basically you're saying that the patronage of the 161 influences the age of the vehicles used? I'm sorry but just because a bus has lighter loadings it doesn't mean only older kit must be used.

Take the 75/76 then. Possibly one of the busiest bus routes in the country. Running every five minutes, with the Geminis full and standing in the peaks despite the very high frequency, are you saying that it should have brand new kit, and that quieter routes like the 20 should have scatty old Darts? That seems to be the link you're making here. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I said that the 6/7 DOES need some deckers. And yes I do think it should be a mixture of singles and doubles. Yes, when the schools/colleges kick out and when the rush hour kicks in, then doubles are definitely needed as even then the services are still busy, but although I haven't been on the route I've seen the 6 in Kingswood and it's practically empty. Even Bristol's key routes such as the 48 and the 75/76 aren't busy off-peak!

Do you genuinely think the 6/7 should be 100% deckers?



So basically you're saying that the patronage of the 161 influences the age of the vehicles used? I'm sorry but just because a bus has lighter loadings it doesn't mean only older kit must be used.

Take the 75/76 then. Possibly one of the busiest bus routes in the country. Running every five minutes, with the Geminis full and standing in the peaks despite the very high frequency, are you saying that it should have brand new kit, and that quieter routes like the 20 should have scatty old Darts? That seems to be the link you're making here. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Is this a wind up?

The 161 carries very few passengers. It's tendered between Shepton and Frome and is not exactly rocking to Wells. Passengers pay fares and this revenue pays the running costs. As well as fuel, tyres, maintenance, staff costs and overheads, there is depreciation. Add all that together and if it's less than the revenue, it loses money. Hence, First put fully depreciated fleet on there in the hope that revenue exceeds costs. That is how you run a bus company

As for the 6/7, I'm losing the will to live. How on earth can you know about a route based on nothing more than observations in town and one trip to Kingswood. Once again, if you see it in central Kingswood, you'll see it before it then wends it's way through the eastern suburbs, picking up kids and then depositing them at Soundwell or BCA. So yeah, you're not going to see why it needs deckers because you're stood in the wrong place.

 

[THarris123]

Is this a wind up?

The 161 carries very few passengers. It's tendered between Shepton and Frome and is not exactly rocking to Wells. Passengers pay fares and this revenue pays the running costs. As well as fuel, tyres, maintenance, staff costs and overheads, there is depreciation. Add all that together and if it's less than the revenue, it loses money. Hence, First put fully depreciated fleet on there in the hope that revenue exceeds costs. That is how you run a bus company

As for the 6/7, I'm losing the will to live. How on earth can you know about a route based on nothing more than observations in town and one trip to Kingswood. Once again, if you see it in central Kingswood, you'll see it before it then wends it's way through the eastern suburbs, picking up kids and then depositing them at Soundwell or BCA. So yeah, you're not going to see why it needs deckers because you're stood in the wrong place.

I think someone's about to blow a fuse

I agree about the 161. It doesn't deserve new buses at all. But I don't think it deserves the oldest of stock. I think 43849 is suited to it and we could see some other 05 reg darts on this. 4290* range is looking a bit sad in Bath - saw 42903 and 42902 yesterday and they're beginning to show their age. I think they would be perfect for the 161 and could stay on there another 5-6 years (knowing First they will). I use the 161 every so often and have seen the loadings myself. Peak times seem to be the only time when anyone uses the Shepton-Frome section. The rest of it is empty.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I said, the B10BLEs (R-BOU) have been excellent but they are showing their age. Might see the W regs replace them on 377 with Eclipses on 126? Darts for the 375/X75 unless the 37 disappears.

59 plates on 265 would be a welcome improvement. Had 66731 on there a few weeks ago out of Salisbury and it was creaking a bit. Quite a distance from BH; you wouldn't want a breakdown out there!

I think I'm going to stay out of the 265 discussion as I'll probably blow a fuse. The last thing I'll say on that is that I heard the rumour that Versas were coming to the 265 last year from a driver who stated they would be on there in November - obviously all lies.

I think we're bound to see either W reg B10s or 02 reg B7s in Wells.

The 126 appears to have an Eclipse on there everyday. 66956 is usually on there in the morning. No reason why the 66*** range can't be on this. If Wells get back the 126, expect to see 54 plate and 02 plate B7s in Wells.

I think the B10s really won't last long now. At most 6 months and I think 66160 will be the last on there. I caught the 376 yesterday with 66107 and it seems like that will last a couple of months. I bet that 66100, 46603 and 41144 will have gone by the end of the year. 66107 & 66108 probably February and then 66160 in April/May time.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think someone's about to blow a fuse

I agree about the 161. It doesn't deserve new buses at all. But I don't think it deserves the oldest of stock. I think 43849 is suited to it and we could see some other 05 reg darts on this. 4290* range is looking a bit sad in Bath - saw 42903 and 42902 yesterday and they're beginning to show their age. I think they would be perfect for the 161 and could stay on there another 5-6 years (knowing First they will). I use the 161 every so often and have seen the loadings myself. Peak times seem to be the only time when anyone uses the Shepton-Frome section. The rest of it is empty.

It gets painful to explain. I'm off for some camomile tea!!

Whilst it would be nice for the 161 to newer kit, I don't think the economics justify much better. Basically, anything other than depreciated fleet and it doesn't make money and turns into a loss maker.

Think 2005 Darts are both too modern with too high an NBV (Net Book Value) for it. I'd guess some more of the ALX Darts from HE or possibly the 2002/3 Solos from BH at a push.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Is this a wind up?

No it's not. Now chill.

The 161 carries very few passengers. It's tendered between Shepton and Frome and is not exactly rocking to Wells. Passengers pay fares and this revenue pays the running costs. As well as fuel, tyres, maintenance, staff costs and overheads, there is depreciation. Add all that together and if it's less than the revenue, it loses money. Hence, First put fully depreciated fleet on there in the hope that revenue exceeds costs. That is how you run a bus company.

Fair enough but you get that with every bus service!

As for the 6/7, I'm losing the will to live. How on earth can you know about a route based on nothing more than observations in town and one trip to Kingswood. Once again, if you see it in central Kingswood, you'll see it before it then wends it's way through the eastern suburbs, picking up kids and then depositing them at Soundwell or BCA. So yeah, you're not going to see why it needs deckers because you're stood in the wrong place.

I've seen the 6 along all sections of the route.

But I'm agreeing the route needs deckers!! (please remember this). Whether or not it needs to be fully deckered, I don't know. Now please move on.

It's a perfectly valid question. Anyone would think I was trying to bomb the sodding bus!

As for the 161, I think 05 Darts would be nice. Those ALX200s (if they're 42733, etc) are starting to look tired (a bit like me having to explain the 6 situation all the time!!!!

 

[THarris123]

It gets painful to explain. I'm off for some camomile tea!!

Whilst it would be nice for the 161 to newer kit, I don't think the economics justify much better. Basically, anything other than depreciated fleet and it doesn't make money and turns into a loss maker.

Think 2005 Darts are both too modern with too high an NBV (Net Book Value) for it. I'd guess some more of the ALX Darts from HE or possibly the 2002/3 Solos from BH at a push.

But what about DDA compliance? Are the ALX darts from HE DDA complaint? I've just had a look at First's fleet and have noticed there are a few 02 reg Marshalls. 41490 is in LH and another 2 are in Cymru. Will we see these on 161 - they'd be perfect to replace 41144 and 46603.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think I'm going to stay out of the 265 discussion as I'll probably blow a fuse. The last thing I'll say on that is that I heard the rumour that Versas were coming to the 265 last year from a driver who stated they would be on there in November - obviously all lies.

As the son of a driver, I can tell you they're the worst Canteens are dangerous places for the truth though very good for learning card games. I had a childhood of that, Setright ticket machines and Bristol REs, but whilst buses change, the rumour mill doesn't!!

 

[THarris123]

I don't know where this Versa rumour came from but seeing as First didn't buy any other than a few hybrids, then consider it rubbish. Also, Versas are lightweight like a Streetlite and have a shocking reliability record.

As for B10BLEs, they've been excellent servants and will be missed. However, speak to operators and the B7RLE is very well regarded. Too much computerisation? Sorry, that's what you get on modern vehicles from buses to cars. Compared to a Bristol LH, a standard Dart is like the space shuttle and that advancement will continue.

One last mischievous question. There was a 10 minute swing between the Streetlite and the B7? Was the Streetlite picking up passengers? More importantly, with only 7 minutes between the two timing points, how did the B7 make up 10 mins?

That Somerbus Merc is lovely but it's a real citybus as the internal layout indicates. More importantly, it only works 10 hrs a day, 6 days a week. Run it like those WS Eclipses and then compare them! It has one more seat than an Eclipse though

The story of the 12.25 376 and 12.35 379 on 16/08/2014...

Once upon a time there was a big company called First that didn't listen to anybody's views and decided to change their 376 service so it was late all the time.
When the 12.25 376 turned up yesterday, it was about 5 mins late leaving Bristol. The 12.35 379, however, was on time. When the 379 got to Temple Meads, the 376 was still loading and the 379 passed it.
They leapfroged between Knowle and Happy Landings. There the scary traffic jam of Whitchurch began. It took about 30 minutes to go through this. The 379 was following the 376 all the way up to Pensford. From Chelwood Roundabout the 376 stormed off in a hurry. When the 379 bus got to the top of the hill, the 376 was entering Clutton.
69443 was on the 376 and 47549 was on the 379.
So boys and girls, what did we learn from that story - that's right - the 59 plate B7 Eclipse buses are better at rural routes than Streetlites and that the 376 needs improving.

Does this answer your question? The 379 picked up a few passengers on the way, just as many stops as the 376.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But what about DDA compliance? Are the ALX darts from HE DDA complaint? I've just had a look at First's fleet and have noticed there are a few 02 reg Marshalls. 41490 is in LH and another 2 are in Cymru. Will we see these on 161 - they'd be perfect to replace 41144 and 46603.

Just a stop gap to get rid of those two sheds. As I've said before, perhaps that 02 plate Marshall might get moved but 53102/3 would also be reasonable. Don't know if First depreciate Solos over 15 years or something less like 12?

That said, who'd have thought 46603 would still be going (or that awful 41144 for that matter).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The story of the 12.25 376 and 12.35 379 on 16/08/2014...

Once upon a time there was a big company called First that didn't listen to anybody's views and decided to change their 376 service so it was late all the time.
When the 12.25 376 turned up yesterday, it was about 5 mins late leaving Bristol. The 12.35 379, however, was on time. When the 379 got to Temple Meads, the 376 was still loading and the 379 passed it.
They leapfroged between Knowle and Happy Landings. There the scary traffic jam of Whitchurch began. It took about 30 minutes to go through this. The 379 was following the 376 all the way up to Pensford. From Chelwood Roundabout the 376 stormed off in a hurry. When the 379 bus got to the top of the hill, the 376 was entering Clutton.
69443 was on the 376 and 47549 was on the 379.
So boys and girls, what did we learn from that story - that's right - the 59 plate B7 Eclipse buses are better at rural routes that Streetlites and that the 376 needs improving.

Does this answer your question? The 379 picked up a few passengers on the way, just as many stops as the 376.

I learnt about hyperbole..... I like B7 Eclipses and they're excellent for interurban work. That said, Streetlites on the X39 are surprisingly good; I was expecting them to be rattly and nasty but they're not like an e200! Also, you can't get Eclipses now so your options are e300, Streetlite Max or Citaros. The latter are superb but they are very much an urban bus though they can storm up hills.

 

[ValleyLines142]

That said, who'd have thought 46603 would still be going (or that awful 41144 for that matter).

I wouldn't have thought 46603 will be going on for much longer, considering all of the LH (or MH?) and Bath examples have gone.

I also thought there'd be a DDA issue with the ALX200s.

 

[THarris123]

Just a stop gap to get rid of those two sheds. As I've said before, perhaps that 02 plate Marshall might get moved but 53102/3 would also be reasonable. Don't know if First depreciate Solos over 15 years or something less like 12?

That said, who'd have thought 46603 would still be going (or that awful 41144 for that matter).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I learnt about hyperbole.....

See and people say I don't put any thought into what I write!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wouldn't have thought 46603 will be going on for much longer, considering all of the LH (or MH?) and Bath examples have gone.

I also thought there'd be a DDA issue with the ALX200s.

There is but it's a bit indicative of a gap in the fleet profile where there's V reg Darts/W reg B6s then nothing really til the 2005 Darts.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fair enough but you get that with every bus service!

I've seen the 6 along all sections of the route.

But I'm agreeing the route needs deckers!! (please remember this). Whether or not it needs to be fully deckered, I don't know. Now please move on.

Happy to move on. Now, get some AvonRiders and get travelling! And don't get me wrong, out of peak, the 6/7 could manage with a Solo!

Not all routes are the same and the 161 is one of the most marginal. It just can't carry the depreciation, so fully depreciated fleet is used.

The strongest performing routes do tend to get the best vehicles as they provide the best return. As a kid, my dad's depot was similar to Wells and had to rely on cascades from the bigger, more profitable depots. That's simple economics.

 

[baza585]

Is this a wind up?

The 161 carries very few passengers. It's tendered between Shepton and Frome and is not exactly rocking to Wells. Passengers pay fares and this revenue pays the running costs. As well as fuel, tyres, maintenance, staff costs and overheads, there is depreciation. Add all that together and if it's less than the revenue, it loses money. Hence, First put fully depreciated fleet on there in the hope that revenue exceeds costs. That is how you run a bus company

I too am losing the will to live with a certain poster.................

Routes like the 161 are tendered. To win the tender, you have to submit the lowest bid. To compete, you have to use fully (or almost fully) depreciated buses. The depreciation forms part of the cost of putting the bus on the road. If you tender with new kit, someone else will tender with fully depreciated kit and submit a lower cost bid. In past times, councils may have been prepared to pay more for a quality service, but these days money is so tight that they will normally just accept the lowest bid. So you won't get the tender unless you put older kit on it.

Hence why the new buses tend to go on the commercial services during the day at least, and the older kit on routes like the 161. Rocket science it isn't.............

I'm not totally convinced WS will get any brand new kit next year. The First imperative for next year is to replace all non DDA Darts and Solos and make inroads into the B10BLEs, and the cheapest way of doing that is buying Streetlites/E20Ds/Solos. There isn't really a heavyweight single deck chassis about and that is what the 376 needs; I kind of doubt E300s or Streetlites could cope with the hills. Capital is still tight within First and I could see them not buying any heavyweight single deck chassis again next year, whilst what few deckers are bought are likely to go to the big urban areas with significant numbers of Olympians to replace (eg West Yorkshire). Only my view ; no inside knowledge.

 

[THarris123]

I too am losing the will to live with a certain poster.................

Routes like the 161 are tendered. To win the tender, you have to submit the lowest bid. To compete, you have to use fully (or almost fully) depreciated buses. The depreciation forms part of the cost of putting the bus on the road. If you tender with new kit, someone else will tender with fully depreciated kit and submit a lower cost bid. In past times, councils may have been prepared to pay more for a quality service, but these days money is so tight that they will normally just accept the lowest bid. So you won't get the tender unless you put older kit on it.

Hence why the new buses tend to go on the commercial services during the day at least, and the older kit on routes like the 161. Rocket science it isn't.............

I'm not totally convinced WS will get any brand new kit next year. The First imperative for next year is to replace all non DDA Darts and Solos and make inroads into the B10BLEs, and the cheapest way of doing that is buying Streetlites/E20Ds/Solos. There isn't really a heavyweight single deck chassis about and that is what the 376 needs; I kind of doubt E300s or Streetlites could cope with the hills. Capital is still tight within First and I could see them not buying any heavyweight single deck chassis again next year, whilst what few deckers are bought are likely to go to the big urban areas with significant numbers of Olympians to replace (eg West Yorkshire). Only my view ; no inside knowledge.

Brilliant post. Can't agree more. Thank you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've sent through another complaint to First on behalf of users of the 376 (many people were moaning about it yesterday - the 16.13 bus from Wells had 14 people standing and was 20 mins late (but all the 376 was running 30 mins late, so in fact it was 50 mins late) - not good). In this complaint I have also asked whether they're planning to add any new buses to this service. I doubt they will respond to that, but if they do, I expect the answer to be no.

 

[KendalKing]

The First imperative for next year is to replace all non DDA Darts and Solos and make inroads into the B10BLEs, and the cheapest way of doing that is buying Streetlites/E20Ds/Solos. whilst what few deckers are bought are likely to go to the big urban areas with significant numbers of Olympians to replace (eg West Yorkshire). Only my view ; no inside knowledge.

This is the reason why First announced, at the beginning of the year, that the 2014 & 2015 vehicle orders, would be mainly single deck. So that they could replace the non-DDA compliant single deck fleet. There are still a number of P, R, S, & T registered buses that need replacing.

The eight remaining operational Olympians, in the Manchester fleet are to be withdrawn by the end of this month.

 

[freetoview33]

Yes just the stuff that has to go won't be directly replaced with the new stuff.

 

[Private Baxter]

Routes like the 161 are tendered. To win the tender, you have to submit the lowest bid. To compete, you have to use fully (or almost fully) depreciated buses. The depreciation forms part of the cost of putting the bus on the road. If you tender with new kit, someone else will tender with fully depreciated kit and submit a lower cost bid. In past times, councils may have been prepared to pay more for a quality service, but these days money is so tight that they will normally just accept the lowest bid. So you won't get the tender unless you put older kit on it.

Hence why the new buses tend to go on the commercial services during the day at least, and the older kit on routes like the 161. Rocket science it isn't.............

I'm not totally convinced WS will get any brand new kit next year. The First imperative for next year is to replace all non DDA Darts and Solos and make inroads into the B10BLEs, and the cheapest way of doing that is buying Streetlites/E20Ds/Solos. There isn't really a heavyweight single deck chassis about and that is what the 376 needs; I kind of doubt E300s or Streetlites could cope with the hills. Capital is still tight within First and I could see them not buying any heavyweight single deck chassis again next year, whilst what few deckers are bought are likely to go to the big urban areas with significant numbers of Olympians to replace (eg West Yorkshire). Only my view ; no inside knowledge.

Despite what I've been saying recently, you might be right about Wells. They might, theoretically be due something, but with other priorities next year, perhaps they will end up waiting an extra year or two. After all, there's nothing wrong with what they've got now, and I'm not an expert but from what I've been reading the current eclipses are more suitable than streetlites. Bear in mind Bath's eclipses weren't taken off the X39 till last July, almost nine years after entering service! The streetlites are suitab;e for that route, but then it is much flatter. I've been very interested to read about people's views of streetlites on 379.

Agree with everything said about 161. On the (very) rare occasion when I've used it beyond Shepton, there has been pratically no one on it. It used to be hourly, and there used to be a quicker version of the route, 162, but this was rightly dropped in 2010. Is the 161 a contender for the least used route First operate? It can get some mildly healthy loadings between Wells and Shepton at certain times of though.

Oh, and I think I'd rather see that marshall go before 46603 does!

 

[freetoview33]

time for another wacky idea of mine.have the 38 run every 30 minutes and reroute the 39 via keynsham where to 178 currently goes also every half an hour then the x39 every 15 minutes pick up and set down only from bristol bus station to brislington park and ride.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Have to agree with Baza585. Just because it's the 6 year point, there's no automatic reason why new fleet has to arrive for WS. I'm also a big fan of the Eclipses.

That said, there's no real heavyweight options and it seems that First and Arriva have decided that Streetlites are their preferred choice. In fact, Arriva are just receiving them for the Middlesbrough to Loftus/Whitby services and they're a lot more demanding in terms of terrain. Certainly, I prefer a more heavyweight machine for ride quality and durability though vehicle design and technology evolves so perhaps Streetlites will prove to be more robust? I remember the Darts and Vectas arriving in fleets 20+ years ago and whilst the Optare was the more refined, it certainly wasn't the most reliable!

As FTV33 rightly said, it's all about money and fuel figures. Also, the need to get more buses in for less to meet DDA means that lightweight is the way forward. Whether manufacturers then try to introduce heavyweights subsequently, who can say?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bear in mind Bath's eclipses weren't taken off the X39 till last July, almost nine years after entering service!

Agree with everything said about 161. On the (very) rare occasion when I've used it beyond Shepton, there has been pratically no one on it. It used to be hourly, and there used to be a quicker version of the route, 162, but this was rightly dropped in 2010. Is the 161 a contender for the least used route First operate? It can get some mildly healthy loadings between Wells and Shepton at certain times of though.

Oh, and I think I'd rather see that marshall go before 46603 does!

Yeah, the X39s had a longer life but only because First' capital problems meant that 69449-60 were diverted from the X39!

Agree with your summary about the 161. In some ways, surprised First are still running the full route even with the subsidy. And yeah, 41144 is truly hateful. 46603 is just old.

 

[henairs]

Hi,
Interesting set of posts on 161 route. Used to ride it quite often back in it's hourly frequency days [161/162] Always been decent loadings Wells - Shepton as Wells was always the main local shopping point for Sheptoners.
May be a little different since the Retail park came into use at Shepton but the section does still deserve it's hourly service.
Even back in 2008/09 period beyond Shepton was thinly used, average 4 pass sometimes less. 162 was even less used as it didn't serve any villages of note bar Nunny.
Suppose Frome mini-buses could do it but doubt it would be worth there while.
Guess 669 Shepton -G'bury - Street is a better option for them which does see a sensible amount of passengers.
Cheers, Mike Russell

 

[ValleyLines142]

I too am losing the will to live with a certain poster.................

I’m sorry but posts like this really, REALLY annoy me. I’ve never heard such a load of insincere rubbish in all my life.

If you’re getting that irritated by my posts, then you need to get anger management because your reaction quite frankly is abnormal. Not only that, but posting like that will only make you very unpopular.

All I have said is just my opinion on the 161, I don’t know the route at all that well, only where it goes and by guessing the geography of the places it served I just purely wondered what buses would be good for the route. There’s nothing wrong with that assumption; I’m not harming anyone in the process and this is just a forum for discussion. No one is right, no one is wrong.

Seriously, what on earth has happened to freedom of speech on this forum? It literally has just gone out of the window! Everybody needs to take a deep breath and calm down. There are WAY worse things happening in the world at the moment.

And don't get me wrong, out of peak, the 6/7 could manage with a Solo!

This is exactly what I was trying to tell you, and if you had just stopped for a minute and digested what I was saying you would have realised; however, you were so engrossed in telling me the allocations for the 6 that it completely slipped past you. I was agreeing with you; it wasn't as if I was trying to say 'Oh you're talking nonsense, the 6 can be fully single deckered' as I know it can't.

I'm hoping to explore some of moore services today but to be honest I do prefer the more urban areas!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m sorry but posts like this really, REALLY annoy me. I’ve never heard such a load of insincere rubbish in all my life.

If you’re getting that irritated by my posts, then you need to get anger management because your reaction quite frankly is abnormal. Not only that, but posting like that will only make you very unpopular.

All I have said is just my opinion on the 161, I don’t know the route at all that well, only where it goes and by guessing the geography of the places it served I just purely wondered what buses would be good for the route. There’s nothing wrong with that assumption; I’m not harming anyone in the process and this is just a forum for discussion. No one is right, no one is wrong.

This is exactly what I was trying to tell you, and if you had just stopped for a minute and digested what I was saying you would have realised; however, you were so engrossed in telling me the allocations for the 6 that it completely slipped past you. I was agreeing with you; it wasn't as if I was trying to say 'Oh you're talking nonsense, the 6 can be fully single deckered' as I know it can't.

You have a right to an opinion. We all have that as well as a responsibility to treat others with respect. Also, if there's a right to have an opinion, then you also have a responsibility to get your facts right. An opinion means nothing if it's factually incorrect; David Icke has opinions but he has no evidence for them and is rightly derided.

Your views would have more credibility if they were not merely opinions based on nothing more than, at best, vague observations and at worst, guessing. Travel on these routes and then you wouldn't suggest putting deckers on the 376 or new buses on the 161 or a mix of single and double deckers on the 6/7. Make suggestions based on proper facts.

I've explained ad nauseum that First believe the 6/7 need deckers during peaks because of the educational establishments in Redfield and Soundwell. Off peak, deckers aren't needed but that is nothing out of the ordinary. What are First supposed to do? Have a separate fleet of Solos for off peak? Of course not. The 319 and 36 have similar requirements but can get away without deckers on every board but the nature of the 6/7 means that isn't that simple. If I stood in UWE during the day, and watched the 70 leave (as I have) with 4 people on it, I could question what YOU say. However, that's grossly unrepresentative and that is same with your observations, off peak in Kingswood.

There are some people on here (like Swifty and Baza 585 to name but two) who have knowledge and insight and are willing to share. You need to listen and also get out there. Get on the 376 and explore. Travel to Bath and do daft things like travel on the 4 to Bathampton. Have fun and suck it all in.

And hey, we all make mistakes. I make assumptions (usually based on historic knowledge or personal experience) as some info is naturally not publicly available. We won't always be right, we will speculate but at least do so with some vestige of knowledge.

Sermon over

 

[ValleyLines142]

You have a right to an opinion. We all have that as well as a responsibility to treat others with respect. Also, if there's a right to have an opinion, then you also have a responsibility to get your facts right. An opinion means nothing if it's factually incorrect; David Icke has opinions but he has no evidence for them and is rightly derided.

Your views would have more credibility if they were not merely opinions based on nothing more than, at best, vague observations and at worst, guessing. Travel on these routes and then you wouldn't suggest putting deckers on the 376 or new buses on the 161 or a mix of single and double deckers on the 6/7. Make suggestions based on proper facts.

I've explained ad nauseum that First believe the 6/7 need deckers during peaks because of the educational establishments in Redfield and Soundwell. Off peak, deckers aren't needed but that is nothing out of the ordinary. What are First supposed to do? Have a separate fleet of Solos for off peak? Of course not. The 319 and 36 have similar requirements but can get away without deckers on every board but the nature of the 6/7 means that isn't that simple. If I stood in UWE during the day, and watched the 70 leave (as I have) with 4 people on it, I could question what YOU say. However, that's grossly unrepresentative and that is same with your observations, off peak in Kingswood.

There are some people on here (like Swifty and Baza 585 to name but two) who have knowledge and insight and are willing to share. You need to listen and also get out there. Get on the 376 and explore. Travel to Bath and do daft things like travel on the 4 to Bathampton. Have fun and suck it all in.

And hey, we all make mistakes. I make assumptions (usually based on historic knowledge or personal experience) as some info is naturally not publicly available. We won't always be right, we will speculate but at least do so with some vestige of knowledge.

Sermon over

Fair enough, entirely. I obviously did my mistakes regarding the 161 and the 376, and I did say this to you, to which you then corrected me.

However, that's not the problem here, the problem is that there is a CLEAR (and I mean SUBSTANTIALLY clear) difference between making mistakes and having an attitude problem. Some member's attitudes on here are frankly disgusting and disrespectful and I find it insincere to the point of nausea.

This also happened on a thread I started about Revenue Protection in Cardiff. Clearly no one has learned from it....

 

[Private Baxter]

time for another wacky idea of mine.have the 38 run every 30 minutes and reroute the 39 via keynsham where to 178 currently goes also every half an hour then the x39 every 15 minutes pick up and set down only from bristol bus station to brislington park and ride.

I like your idea of having a quicker route to Bath for that area of Keynsham, but I don't think the 39 is the solution. The 39 (actually a very old route if I am not mistaken) serves as the quickest route between Bristol and Bath on Sundays and late nights/early mornings, and in my opinion it should stay that way. There are I beleive other options for pepl living in that 178 part of Keynsham to get to Bath, which would require a change of bus, though I confess my knowledge of the town is limited.

 

[THarris123]

I like your idea of having a quicker route to Bath for that area of Keynsham, but I don't think the 39 is the solution. The 39 (actually a very old route if I am not mistaken) serves as the quickest route between Bristol and Bath on Sundays and late nights/early mornings, and in my opinion it should stay that way. There are I beleive other options for pepl living in that 178 part of Keynsham to get to Bath, which would require a change of bus, though I confess my knowledge of the town is limited.

Personally I think there should be some sort of Keynsham local bus service, however, the 38 and 178 serve Keynsham well enough. There are very few places in Keynsham which aren't served by an hourly bus service. Considering that the 178 side of Keynsham is mainly full of the elderly, you would have thought there would be a 30 minute bus service through there.

I've always been of the opinion that Keynsham should get a solo that goes around the whole town to transport the elderly and students (Wellsway). I think, however, it could turn out to be a 174 service, where pensioners use it all the time. But there again you know my logic of thinking - town services for all! There's a fairly regular town service for Midsomer Norton, Radstock & Paulton, why not Keynsham and Wells? Just had a thought - why not put in the 683 regularly (apart from the lack of demand)? It could serve both the whole town of Keynsham and Wells, along with serving some smaller villages. I'm pretty sure Mr Somerbus wouldn't approve!

I don't think there's any need to change the route of the 39. I would like to see the service running a bit more frequently during the day, but I'm not going to moan.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fair enough, entirely. I obviously did my mistakes regarding the 161 and the 376, and I did say this to you, to which you then corrected me.

However, that's not the problem here, the problem is that there is a CLEAR (and I mean SUBSTANTIALLY clear) difference between making mistakes and having an attitude problem. Some member's attitudes on here are frankly disgusting and disrespectful and I find it insincere to the point of nausea.

This also happened on a thread I started about Revenue Protection in Cardiff. Clearly no one has learned from it....

I agree slightly. I think we are all a bit too opinionated (including yourself), but this is mainly what this forum is for. If we can't state our opinions without someone slagging us of, then there's no point having this.

I like it on here. If I suggest anything stupid and ridiculous (which I do - as I want to see a bus/train/tram network serving every village and every road across the UK), I usually get told the facts by GrandWazoo or Private Baxter and it works well - puts me in my place and has stopped me from complaining to First and B&NES every single minute of everyday about the poor public transport system. Makes you think twice about your assumptions.

Thank you for backing up my stupid ideas and correcting me all the time

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's not about correcting but more about sharing knowledge. Despite the fact that some of us are middle aged and older, and falling apart, our one advantage is experience

As for Keynsham locals, there is always the 665 that serves some areas that aren't adequately provided for by commercial routes. Operates sort of hourly (rest break at lunch for driver). Anything more might fall foul of unfair competition rules (e.g. Supported service against a commercial op).

 

[THarris123]

It's not about correcting but more about sharing knowledge. Despite the fact that some of us are middle aged and older, and falling apart, our one advantage is experience

As for Keynsham locals, there is always the 665 that serves some areas that aren't adequately provided for by commercial routes. Operates sort of hourly (rest break at lunch for driver). Anything more might fall foul of unfair competition rules (e.g. Supported service against a commercial op).

Of course the 665. Saw that the other day. How long has it been running? Is it fairly recent?
It would be good to see this running on weekdays. It's more than sufficient for Keynsham.