Revenue Protection Inspectors at Cardiff

[Flamingo]

I have seen the RPI's at Cardiff. I know the barrier staff quite well, also. They do a good job, and deal with some challenging individuals.

Cardiff station (for those that don't know it) is currently undergoing a rather extensive rebuild, which will result in a quite different layout in about 10 months time. I would suggest that any complaints about the layout are pointless at the moment.

I would also say that the current setup, although not perfect, is perfectly adequate for the job.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I have seen the RPI's at Cardiff. I know the barrier staff quite well, also. They do a good job, and deal with some challenging individuals.

Cardiff station (for those that don't know it) is currently undergoing a rather extensive rebuild, which will result in a quite different layout in about 10 months time. I would suggest that any complaints about the layout are pointless at the moment.

I would also say that the current setup, although not perfect, is perfectly adequate for the job.

Will that rebuild affect the front of the station though? Because AFAIK it is just the rear (new platform and new entrance).

 

[ValleyLines142]

Just for the record about me asking for opinions, the following quotes are all useful and constructive comments:

The idea of blocking railcards from being accepted at both Queen Street, and Central at that time of day which I've experienced recently is nothing short of insanity and just causes chaos.

Yes I know it's in the name of revenue protection but still.

I agree with this point. On the Underground where Revenue Inspectors are present the gateline is configured to accept the ticket/pass in the usual manner but also display a light where supporting documentation (e.g. Railcard/photocard/etc.) is required. This means that they are not creating undue congestion at the gateline, or delaying customers as much (for instance if the Inspectors are busy dealing with other customers then you pass through unimpeded). The Inspectors can also come to you rather than you having to go to them stood at the side, and it is much easier to spot and prevent those who pass through the gateline without putting any sort of ticket through whatsoever from doing so. In my opinion a much better strategy in terms of customer service, congestion control AND revenue protection!

Ticket checks by people rather than machine would be an improvement. If you know you'll need to show your Railcard, you'll have it ready, and it would mean Railcards and AP reservations would get checked, and cut down on doughnutting.

At Didcot before the barriers were installed there were two members of staff checking tickets which was efficient and didn't cause much of a queue. Now there are 4 barriers, which cause longer queues in addition to the general irritation of barriers, as well as seemingly requiring at least three people to man them.

OK for Didcot the issue is not enough gates, but I maintain that for mostly Intercity stations (which would probably not include Cardiff) checks should be done by people not gates. Passengers will have piles of luggage and are likely to be less familiar with the railway (e.g. which one of their pile of tickets to use), and much more likely to be on Advances.

Perhaps a future smartcard scheme could solve this issue by combining the railcard (or any other pass allowing a concession fare) and the ticket into one physical card - and removing the option to make a casual purchase of a discounted ticket.

Edit: or future ticket vending machines to require insertion of a valid concession pass before permitting such a ticket to be bought, and showing a pass to be required when purchasing from a ticket office.

Although this would cost money to implement, what about
some system similar to some online banking systems whereby there is a 2 step validation process.

Thus a railcard number and pin device are required.

Allows you to buy online; but doesn't immediately solve the issue of buying for family members?

They could do something like make the gateline into a semi circular shape so it comes out into main station concourse, allowing more gates to be put in. Not sure how much help it would actually be though since you still have the issue of the narrow space the other side of the barriers.

Another option would be to make better use of the second subway. Costly, but they could rip out one of the two lifts on each of 1/2 and 3/4 and have a set of stairs down to the second subway (like 6/7 does). Could be a useful entrance/exit only route - perhaps one which swaps direction in the rush hours.

I have to agree with DanTrainMan185 a passenger should not be delayed by revenue protection if they have valid documents. Any different is poor customer service to somebody who has valid documentation for travel.
This could be resolved by a sign stating if you have a railcard discounted ticket you must go to a set gate. Such a sign would remove the inconvenience and delay of doing to a gate then having to push back through the queues to get to another gate at the back of a queue.

Revenue protection should not be inconveniencing customers with valid tickets.

A sign in one of those freestanding signs they normally have containing information about special events, saying if you have a railcard discounted ticket to have your railcard ready and to go to the assisted gate would resolve all of the issues mentioned. The passenger would then have no grounds for moaning when they go to the wrong gate and don't have their railcard ready.

I imagine DanTrainMan185 isn't the only passenger getting irritated by a poorly conceived problem that is easily resolved by a sign giving passengers with a railcard instructions to go through the assisted gate line.

I agree that if there aren't signs to tell people with railcards to go to the manual gate, and to have them ready for inspection, then perhaps staff should be calling out to approaching passengers periodically to ask.

It is silly when a ticket is set to be rejected, and people don't know. They aren't simply going to come back to seek help, which inconveniences those behind as it is, as they'll invariably try again and perhaps again - causing problems for them and the people tutting and getting frustrated behind. After all, the person knows their ticket IS valid so why not try again in case?

It can probably be quite stressful for some people too*, as if you suddenly get your ticket rejected, does that mean it isn't valid? Now you have to go and seek help and potentially get a penalty fare or worse?

What's more, posters saying to have railcards ready and that they'll be checked means speeding things up because people don't need to be asked when they're now blocking the gate - and, yup, there's the obvious benefit: the deterrent factor. Once it's clear that railcards are checked, you suddenly stop to think about whether there's any advantage buying a discounted ticket that isn't going to work.

* I can say this with good reason, as I once saw a school kid looking particularly worried when his ticket didn't work coming in (presumably worried about not being able to travel, and possibly not having enough money to buy a new ticket).

At least in my experience at Cardiff Central, staff stand next to the large "accessible" gate. The barriers next to this are pretty much always used for people exiting the station. And so if you are entering the station you don't have the ability to do what you suggest. There sometimes are staff at both sides of the gateline, but in my experience it is rare.

If you are exiting the station, then even then the gate immediately next to the wider barrier can get a lot busier because of exactly the reason you mention. And because of the lack of room, you quite can get "forced" to go to a specific barrier due to the crowd behind and to the side of you. Cardiff Queen Street is even worse for that atm because the excess fares desk is in the area approaching the gateline.

It also doesn't help that because there is only the one wider accessible gate, it has to be used for people both entering and exiting the station, thus causing queues.

Pretty much all of this though could be solved by redesigning the gateline layout ATW have there.

Will that rebuild affect the front of the station though? Because AFAIK it is just the rear (new platform and new entrance).

This is what I thought, although with the rebuild I'd hope that a faster, non-delaying queueing system would be considered.

I am all for RPIs doing their job successfully and catching those fare evaders, but if there was a better system then both parties would benefit.

Simple as really. I've said all I need to say on the matter now.

Thanks to those quoted above with their constructive feedback

 

[Greenback]

Dan, it appears that although you asked for opinions, you only really wanted to hear those that agree with you. That isn't really what a discussion is all about.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Dan, it appears that although you asked for opinions, you only really wanted to hear those that agree with you. That isn't really what a discussion is all about.

Not at all, some members have told me that I was incorrect to believe that once a railcard check had take place on board a train then that was it, I accepted that.

 

[Greenback]

Again, though by listing all of the contributions that you describe as useful and constructive as justification for why you asked for opinions in the first place, that is the impression that you give. It may not be what you mean, but that is what comes across.

I am only trying to point out why you get some responses that are negative and not to your liking.

 

[Clip]

Oh sweet jesus how many times have I got to say this?

IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH DOCUMENTATION!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE READ MY POSTS!!!!!!

I am literally going blue in the face.
.

Wow, you are an angry young man.

Well it is about your documentation, specifically your railcard discounted ticket being rejected by the barriers and then having to present both to the RPI to be let on your way, or was this that you wrote to be rubbish

Over the past six months or so, Revenue Protection Inspectors have been present at Cardiff Central in their very bright green hi-vis jackets and to be fair to them, every time I've entered/exited the station they've been hitting someone with fares or whatever it is they collect/do.

As a daily commuter between Cardiff and Bristol, I've noticed that when I pass through the barriers on my way home at Cardiff, at about 6pm, the barriers have been set to PURPOSELY reject ANY ticket with a particular discount (i.e. 16-25 railcard, senior railcard, etc) or with a specific restriction on the ticket. As a 16-25 railcard holder myself, I personally find this quite embarrassing when your ticket gets rejected and you have to seek assistance, particularly when you have a perfectly valid ticket.

Subsequently I have to go to inspectors where they ask to see my railcard, which is a tad annoying when I've already put it in my bag having had it checked on the train already. It's also highly inconvenient when I've got my hands full with books and bags and I'm having to fumble around for my railcard.

Subsequently your rant is about the time it takes but I would like to point out that you dont have your documentation with you because you have already placed it in your bag, SO, it is about your documents as well as the time taken to which others have pointed out never seems to take them that long when they go through there. Im guessing that it takes you so long because you dont have your documents to hand as its in your bag.

Quoting selective posts which you like the sound of does not mean that you shouldnt be criticised for both your attitude and your lack of understanding of the need for the RPIs to do their job properly to prevent fare evasion.

And I would stop getting angry like this, it doesnt bode welll for you.

 

[DownSouth]

Wow, you are an angry young man.

I agree.

Maybe he's getting more stringent inspections at the ticket barriers because he's failing the attitude test? If I was a revenue inspector I'd certainly be a little more interested in a person who hides his tickets at the bottom of a bag and gets all huffy over having to show them - if it quacks and waddles there's a fair chance it's a duck.

Or to put it bluntly - maybe he'd get through quicker if he made an effort to be a nicer person. He might also discover that being a nicer person also has other benefits alongside getting better customer service.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Move on folks, I have, so you should do the same.

 

[Llanigraham]

Move on folks, I have, so you should do the same.

Have you written to ATW and Network Rail yet?

 

[Greenback]

Move on folks, I have, so you should do the same.

I agree. There's little more that can be usefully added now.

 

[bb21]

I don't normally have any desire to have the final word on a forum debate for very good reasons but I will make an exception for once. I think most of the things that are useful has already been said so I will try and only add what has not already been covered.

IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH DOCUMENTATION!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE READ MY POSTS!!!!!!

I am literally going blue in the face.

Shouting gives no additional weight to your argument, and I think this just proves what many people had said earlier. All this will do is confirm the inclination some forum members in this thread already have about you.

Yes but I wasn't expecting all of this nonsense!

There is a CLEAR difference between views, which, like Welshbluebird and radamfi have stated, which are perfectly valid, then there's people judging me.

So people who do not agree with you do not have a valid opinion, or should it be better expressed as "these are not what I want to hear so I refuse to admit any merit they might have"?

If you don't want to be judged by what you write, the simple rule is "don't use any online forum", because that is what happens in real life. Greenback had earlier explained to you that because facial expressions, voices and hand gestures are non-existent, that is the only thing you will be judged on. I don't believe in all that malarky about not judging people, because in real life, we all judge people in every minute of our lives from whatever available information there is. This is life. As long as no prejudice flows from it (or as little as possible), it is fine by me.

People not agreeing with you does not mean that your ideas had no merit, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. I don't think anyone in this thread has disagreed with you that things can be improved. It is only on how it can be improved and what is realistic that opinions vary. This problem falls firmly into the category of "no clear right answer". Implying that those opinions that do not agree with yours are not valid gives off the petulant image that had probably formed in some people's minds. I am sure that it is not how you meant for things to come across, but written words convey meanings by the way they are put down and unfortunately many of yours sent out all the wrong signals in this thread.

Which is fair enough but I have personally told everyone on this thread what my intentions were but there are some forum members who are still not listening to me, so I'm actually past the point of caring now.

NOW I am angry and agitated because I've had to repeat myself several times to people in this thread, not you personally Greenback, but others anyway.

The same argument can be reversed. Perhaps you found yourself repeating the same things because you refused to listen to what other people had to say?

People heard you, and some of them do not agree entirely with you. That is life. Trying to force your opinion down other people's throat is not how grown-ups deal with differences.

Just for the record about me asking for opinions, the following quotes are all useful and constructive comments:

This is what I thought, although with the rebuild I'd hope that a faster, non-delaying queueing system would be considered.

I am all for RPIs doing their job successfully and catching those fare evaders, but if there was a better system then both parties would benefit.

Simple as really. I've said all I need to say on the matter now.

Thanks to those quoted above with their constructive feedback

This is exactly the sort of posts that do you absolutely no favours. You don't like what other people have to say, therefore you throw up a temper tantrum rather than deal with things in a calm and mature way. There is a hidden meaning to this post and everyone can see it.

Do you now understand why some people form the opinion that you are an angry, and possibly arrogant (although personally I think "immature" would be a more appropriate description), young man? It may not be how you wanted to come across and I am sure this is nothing like you in real life, but that is how you have appeared to many people in this thread.

At the end of the day, there will be lots of things in the world that do not pan out in the way we would prefer, but that is called "life". It is not perfect. I think two parts in particular in Post 118 by Llanigraham offer some excellent advice on life skills, and you will do well to remember them if these are the only things you take away from this saga.

Sorry, but your replies come over in 2 ways, one as slightly arrogant, especialy the red bit above, and secondly as a young man who hasn't yet realised that life isn't fair and sometimes it doesn't and won't go the way you want it to. As you get older hopefully you will realise that. If you don't life will be very hard.

At 60odd I really wasn't bothered, and as you will quickly realise life is far to short to worrry about the small delays you suffer.

Remember, life is a bitch sometimes. The only thing you can control is how you handle it.

(Re-read what I said in Post 66 and 100. Looking at your subsequent responses, I don't think you really understood what I meant.)

I think this concludes this thread.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Just to give an update on this. Revenue Protection have not been at Cardiff since the last post on this thread. Or unless they're working on a way so that fare evaders are caught (and rightfully so), yet without causing disruption to the general public. How that would work I do not know.

And to all those who thought I was arrogant and angry, you clearly don't know me. Looking back, the judgement and prejudice on this thread was frankly disgusting. Just be careful next time folks; the world is a harsh place sadly we're all good people here!

I must admit it was a bit of a coincidence that RPIs were no longer in force after this thread. Maybe they saw this thread and took action?! (of course not really!)

 

[Gathursty]

The gate line RPIs at Cardiff Queen Street initially confused my Heart of Wales Circular with a Heart of Wales Ranger and were ready to pounce until I clarified matters with a map. Luckily, they didn't realise I had arrived via Barry which I now know is off-route as is Cardiff Bay but they seemed to wave me on to it to make up for my five minute hold-up. So on balance, no complaints from me regarding Cardiff.

 

[Flamingo]

The ATW revenue team were out in force in Bridgend the other day, "causing disruption to the general public"! The barrier staff in Bridgend were grinning like Cheshire Cats as one regular after another were pulled to one side to be asked why they were on a child ticket, or trying to buy one from Cardiff or Port Talbot...

 

[Greenback]

Clearly ATW are deploying limited resources as they see fit. This probably meant a certain length of time at Central, plus occasional days at other locations such as Bridgend.

Dan, don't take things so personally! I don't think the replies you received were disgusting at all, just people disagreeing with your own submissions.

 

[Deerfold]

And to all those who thought I was arrogant and angry, you clearly don't know me. Looking back, the judgement and prejudice on this thread was frankly disgusting. Just be careful next time folks; the world is a harsh place sadly we're all good people here!

I think the point is not that you were arrogant and angry, but that you came across as arrogant and angry.

 

[bb21]

I think this thread has run its course.

Dan, as I said to you before, don't take things personally. I am sure the intention of most people in this thread is honourable, and most just want to help. If you think another forum member has a point, then take it onboard, and if not, just pretend that you have never seen it and feel free to ignore. There is not always a right and wrong. We all go about things in different ways.